For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad Part 4
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 32,382
Originally Posted by BettyP 
Yes to all of that - like some days you feel like "ok I've got my legs back underneath me" only to have them kicked back out a few days later for no reason. Rapid cycling is just a thing your brain is doing right now for whatever reason - - it's tinkering with the chemistry, and like the lights flicker on and off so to speak. Your brain is an active construction zone!
I am for the most part doing pretty well. I eat well, sleep well, and in the past month or two have started feeling a return of normal, happy feelings - there was a long time in PAWS when like I couldn't even smell a flower or look at a pretty sunset and feel anything except dread, it was so terrifying. I'm happy to report that that goes away! I still have some lingering days of feeling not so great, anxiety creeps back in and it's hard to go out on those days, but I have been more and more active in getting out and about (I had horrible, horrible agoraphobia just out of nowhere). The good days absolutely outnumber the bad days now, and my brain continues to improve as time goes on. I know not everyone on this thread is an AA person, but I've found meetings to be helpful in just having other sober people to talk to - anyway my favorite "AA-ism" that I got along the way is "time takes time" - I really felt that in going through PAWS, like it's impossible to speed up the process it takes to heal, unfortunately, but in the end we do all heal. And certainly the experience has given me a very healthy fear of ever picking up again!
I am for the most part doing pretty well. I eat well, sleep well, and in the past month or two have started feeling a return of normal, happy feelings - there was a long time in PAWS when like I couldn't even smell a flower or look at a pretty sunset and feel anything except dread, it was so terrifying. I'm happy to report that that goes away! I still have some lingering days of feeling not so great, anxiety creeps back in and it's hard to go out on those days, but I have been more and more active in getting out and about (I had horrible, horrible agoraphobia just out of nowhere). The good days absolutely outnumber the bad days now, and my brain continues to improve as time goes on. I know not everyone on this thread is an AA person, but I've found meetings to be helpful in just having other sober people to talk to - anyway my favorite "AA-ism" that I got along the way is "time takes time" - I really felt that in going through PAWS, like it's impossible to speed up the process it takes to heal, unfortunately, but in the end we do all heal. And certainly the experience has given me a very healthy fear of ever picking up again!
Originally Posted by BettyP
Oh and re that any small, stressful situation becomes magnified - that is classic PAWS. On my one-year anniversary day I lost my car keys and I was just beside myself - I could not handle it, tears, screaming - which is WAY out of character for me. Your brain is not working with a full team, so the neurotransmitters that are on board are doing the best they can. Give yourself permission to not be perfect - it's a transition time in your life :-)
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Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 59
It is great to hear, and learn from others with experience. In my opinion there is a huge need for groups that deal primarily with PAWS. AA and NA are OK but PAWS is not something that receives the focus nor the attention that it merits. Without realizing and having people with experience validate what PAWS does, many may not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I can not express enough how thankful I am for your response and that you take the time to assist others.I attempted to message you a thank you, but I can not figure out how this thread handles said. I had a good day Saturday, Sunday was not good, Monday, which was yesterday, was excellent. Today is not as good. I realize that factors, and stressors effect us but even with that being said the waves come, and often they are unprovoked. The frustration is immeasurable, but I continue to believe that my brain is attempting to reach homeostasis, and I must push through. During your journey, have you noticed that all/any small illness causes more agitation than one would anticipate??? With me, it is frustrating that even a bout with the common cold drains my energy level, and as you are aware, PAWS will often drain us even when we are 100% healthy. I am happy that you are experiencing happy thoughts, I have a difficult time with that. For the first 6 months I did not care, if I ate, or what I ate, now that is slowly changing. I loved traveling and fishing, for months those thoughts were negative, and I could not see myself participating in said. Now on certain days, I begin to have neutral or even slightly positive thoughts about traveling and fishing. I am pleased, and hope that this will continue, as a couple of months ago I could not even imagine traveling or fishing, and I own a boat. Thank You for your thoughtfulness and compassion.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by rothmaninc
It is great to hear, and learn from others with experience. In my opinion there is a huge need for groups that deal primarily with PAWS. AA and NA are OK but PAWS is not something that receives the focus nor the attention that it merits. Without realizing and having people with experience validate what PAWS does, many may not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I can not express enough how thankful I am for your response and that you take the time to assist others.I attempted to message you a thank you, but I can not figure out how this thread handles said. I had a good day Saturday, Sunday was not good, Monday, which was yesterday, was excellent. Today is not as good. I realize that factors, and stressors effect us but even with that being said the waves come, and often they are unprovoked. The frustration is immeasurable, but I continue to believe that my brain is attempting to reach homeostasis, and I must push through. During your journey, have you noticed that all/any small illness causes more agitation than one would anticipate??? With me, it is frustrating that even a bout with the common cold drains my energy level, and as you are aware, PAWS will often drain us even when we are 100% healthy. I am happy that you are experiencing happy thoughts, I have a difficult time with that. For the first 6 months I did not care, if I ate, or what I ate, now that is slowly changing. I loved traveling and fishing, for months those thoughts were negative, and I could not see myself participating in said. Now on certain days, I begin to have neutral or even slightly positive thoughts about traveling and fishing. I am pleased, and hope that this will continue, as a couple of months ago I could not even imagine traveling or fishing, and I own a boat. Thank You for your thoughtfulness and compassion.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by spen71
I’ve mentioned PAWS in AA meetings before. You get a blank look or told to just do the steps.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by rothmaninc
have you noticed that all/any small illness causes more agitation than one would anticipate???
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 326
"During your journey, have you noticed that all/any small illness causes more agitation than one would anticipate???" Yes absolutely - even just a small cold would put me out. And towards the tail end of my recovery I had some days where I was so unbelievably exhausted for what seemed like no reason. Like I could barely get out of bed or walk up a couple flights of stairs. Some others above mentioned health anxiety - absolutely yes, this is a huge symptom of PAWS. Your brain is trying to figure out when you're in so much distress and how to fix it, so you scroll endlessly through the internet scouring symptoms. This does go away! When your nervous system re-regulates, and the physical anxiety subsides, this goes away.
I do go to AA meetings, and I have also been met with blank faces a lot when I mention PAWS. I try to share about it as much as I can so that newcomers hear that they're not alone and that what they're going through is temporary. I did have one older AA person tell me once that they used to not tell people about PAWS (known back then as "the jitters" or "the fear") because it would scare people away from getting sober - like I get it, but it's also doing people a huge disservice saying it's just all about the steps and meetings. Yes, steps and meetings help a lot in getting support, but they can't fix the chemical imbalance that's going on in your brain during PAWS. The only thing we know that fixes that is time, and staying sober!
I do go to AA meetings, and I have also been met with blank faces a lot when I mention PAWS. I try to share about it as much as I can so that newcomers hear that they're not alone and that what they're going through is temporary. I did have one older AA person tell me once that they used to not tell people about PAWS (known back then as "the jitters" or "the fear") because it would scare people away from getting sober - like I get it, but it's also doing people a huge disservice saying it's just all about the steps and meetings. Yes, steps and meetings help a lot in getting support, but they can't fix the chemical imbalance that's going on in your brain during PAWS. The only thing we know that fixes that is time, and staying sober!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by BettyP
"During your journey, have you noticed that all/any small illness causes more agitation than one would anticipate???" Yes absolutely - even just a small cold would put me out. And towards the tail end of my recovery I had some days where I was so unbelievably exhausted for what seemed like no reason. Like I could barely get out of bed or walk up a couple flights of stairs. Some others above mentioned health anxiety - absolutely yes, this is a huge symptom of PAWS. Your brain is trying to figure out when you're in so much distress and how to fix it, so you scroll endlessly through the internet scouring symptoms. This does go away! When your nervous system re-regulates, and the physical anxiety subsides, this goes away.
I do go to AA meetings, and I have also been met with blank faces a lot when I mention PAWS. I try to share about it as much as I can so that newcomers hear that they're not alone and that what they're going through is temporary. I did have one older AA person tell me once that they used to not tell people about PAWS (known back then as "the jitters" or "the fear") because it would scare people away from getting sober - like I get it, but it's also doing people a huge disservice saying it's just all about the steps and meetings. Yes, steps and meetings help a lot in getting support, but they can't fix the chemical imbalance that's going on in your brain during PAWS. The only thing we know that fixes that is time, and staying sober!
I do go to AA meetings, and I have also been met with blank faces a lot when I mention PAWS. I try to share about it as much as I can so that newcomers hear that they're not alone and that what they're going through is temporary. I did have one older AA person tell me once that they used to not tell people about PAWS (known back then as "the jitters" or "the fear") because it would scare people away from getting sober - like I get it, but it's also doing people a huge disservice saying it's just all about the steps and meetings. Yes, steps and meetings help a lot in getting support, but they can't fix the chemical imbalance that's going on in your brain during PAWS. The only thing we know that fixes that is time, and staying sober!
“do the steps”
”keep coming back”
”let god into your life”
thats all I ever get told. Tbh I’ve stopped going as it’s so narrow minded
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Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 59
It is antiquated thinking for any organization which claims to help the sobriety community to ignore PAWS. PAWS is probably one of the leading factors for giving up. If we do not assist each other with our experiences and information regarding PAWS people within our community will not understand that it does get better, and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Sobriety entities/businesses/companies should have group therapy dealing primarily with PAWS. In consideration of the fact that most people dealing with addiction have PAWS symptoms lasting one to two years, there are many people in need of assistance. I am hopeful that PAWS is not being ignored by those who can profit from people who relapse.
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by rothmaninc
It is antiquated thinking for any organization which claims to help the sobriety community to ignore PAWS. PAWS is probably one of the leading factors for giving up. If we do not assist each other with our experiences and information regarding PAWS people within our community will not understand that it does get better, and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Sobriety entities/businesses/companies should have group therapy dealing primarily with PAWS. In consideration of the fact that most people dealing with addiction have PAWS symptoms lasting one to two years, there are many people in need of assistance. I am hopeful that PAWS is not being ignored by those who can profit from people who relapse.
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Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 59
THE WAY BACK.....I never heard mention of PAWS during the various stages of treatment/recovery. I am at nine months today and although the lows are a bit higher and the highs are a bit better, PAWS is still present. I had a few very good days, and today is up and down, I never have sustained normal, (as in feeling the way that I did before addiction), days. It has become much easier to push through challenging days, while enjoying the good days which have me feeling 85% of what I remember as being normal. The Anhedonia has been a main stay although on rare occasions I get almost what would be best described as a flash of desire for something which was once a large part of my life. Hobbies, sex, travel, food finally have shown themselves/resurfaced, but then dissipate as rapidly as they appeared. PAWS although do-able is the most frustrating thing that I have dealt with. Feeling very good one day, and anxious, or depressed the next. Having a loss of balance for no apparent reason one day and being able to work out at the gym the next... Being ambivalent about food one day and ravenous the next. Days of constipation followed by the opposite. Becoming stressed and agitated over a random song on the radio....I feel you WAY BACK!!!!
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by rothmaninc
THE WAY BACK.....I never heard mention of PAWS during the various stages of treatment/recovery. I am at nine months today and although the lows are a bit higher and the highs are a bit better, PAWS is still present. I had a few very good days, and today is up and down, I never have sustained normal, (as in feeling the way that I did before addiction), days. It has become much easier to push through challenging days, while enjoying the good days which have me feeling 85% of what I remember as being normal. The Anhedonia has been a main stay although on rare occasions I get almost what would be best described as a flash of desire for something which was once a large part of my life. Hobbies, sex, travel, food finally have shown themselves/resurfaced, but then dissipate as rapidly as they appeared. PAWS although do-able is the most frustrating thing that I have dealt with. Feeling very good one day, and anxious, or depressed the next. Having a loss of balance for no apparent reason one day and being able to work out at the gym the next... Being ambivalent about food one day and ravenous the next. Days of constipation followed by the opposite. Becoming stressed and agitated over a random song on the radio....I feel you WAY BACK!!!!
I seem to be going through a very rough stretch. Some days I feel like I am worse now than I was at day 1. The only positive I can hold on to is that I lost 46 lbs in the first 3 months. I was literally starved though as my appetite was non-existent.
The anhedonia hit me at right around 50-60 day mark. That is exactly my experience every time I have experimented with abstinence over the past 12 years. I make it 30 days and give in to the craving. Or I make it 50-60 days and the anhedonia does me in and I start drinking again. This the first time I have abstained from alcohol for more than 3 months in the past 15 years.
My biggest mistake, maybe in my entire life was quitting cold turkey. I had a nervous breakdown at about 70-75 days and went to the ER in a full on panic attack and the dummies did nothing and sent me home. Only then did I do to a doctor and they put me on some lame anti-anxiety meds that did not work. After that I got on an anxiety med that does work, but I am still suffering from PAWS and extreme health anxiety.
Keep us posted on your progress and I'll try to do the same. You know, I have loved music my entire life. But over the past few months there was a time I could not stand the sound of it, every time I'd hear a song, I got depressed. Then one day I heard something and I guess there must have been some slight normalization of my Gaba, Serotonin, and Dopamine levels and it sounded amazing! I still have some anhedonia at times. Now I will travel internationally for the first time in 5 years. I'm scared to death, for real. The only thing I am more scared of is staying home alone. I'll probably have a massive panic attack before the flight gets airborne and they'll ground the flight because of me, lol.
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 326
I think the main issue with people in the recovery community who don't understand or know about PAWS is that not only are they not educated about it, it also doesn't strike everyone - it's in a way like the confusion and denial surrounding Covid ... some people get really sick, some people not at all. And while a lot of people get PAWS, a larger amount of people do not. Add to that that everyone who goes through PAWS suffers primarily from mental health symptoms, which let's be honest people in this country do not care about/understand or are afraid of. It's a bit of a perfect storm. Good thing there are people out there sharing on threads like this!
VinBx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: New York
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by rothmaninc
How is everyone doing?
Vinny
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Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 59
VINDAWGS...I feel the same way about stress. I am at 9 1/2 months, my low periods are a bit better and my high periods are a bit better. Some would choose to say my lows are higher and my highs are higher. Stress is still magnified as small things seem to impact me at an unreasonably high level. When stress is not present my days are good. I am still experiencing low mood/energy days from time to time, taking vitamin B to help. I also take a multi vitamin, C, and ZINC. Since leaving detox, where I was prescribed 300MG's of Gabapentin, three times a day I have managed to slowly titrate to 100MG's of Gabapentin two times a day. I underwent 14 surgeries, over the course of 22 years, (which was the reason I was on pain meds for years), so I was prescribed Gabapentin for pain and mood stabilization.
I also have experienced some brain fog, memory issues, and balance issues, but each are generally temporary. The battle continues....I am enjoying the good days, and simply MUST PUSH THROUGH the bad days. I am hopeful that everyone here continues to improve, and again I would like to thank all of the long term posters who have shared their experience with us. I would imagine that it takes a strong person to return here and share their PAWS symptoms, after they have subsided. PAWS needs to have more attention given to it, as most of us are given little to no information about said, while attempting to abstain from medication, alcohol, and other drugs. STAY STRONG IT GETS BETTER!!!
I also have experienced some brain fog, memory issues, and balance issues, but each are generally temporary. The battle continues....I am enjoying the good days, and simply MUST PUSH THROUGH the bad days. I am hopeful that everyone here continues to improve, and again I would like to thank all of the long term posters who have shared their experience with us. I would imagine that it takes a strong person to return here and share their PAWS symptoms, after they have subsided. PAWS needs to have more attention given to it, as most of us are given little to no information about said, while attempting to abstain from medication, alcohol, and other drugs. STAY STRONG IT GETS BETTER!!!
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Boston, MA
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Originally Posted by TheWayBack
Still feel like complete garbage at going on 9 months sober. Still feel like I was better off drinking.
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