Steely

Nands are you OK? Where are you?

kenton

I think it's about 5pm in Australia so I guess the wedding is in full swing. I hope the speech went well and everything is going ok Poppy.

Your meeting last night sounds great Kev! It must be nice to be with people in the real world who understand and celebrate your success. I'm glad you had such a good evening.

Steely, the soup sounds great. Not like baby food at all. Far too sophisticated for babies. Made me think about when my kids were babies. I remember a lot of banana mashing going on. And a whole load of mashed banana ending up on the floor and the walls! I'd forgotten all about those days. Funny how you spend years doing stuff and then life moves on and you forget you ever did it. Hey, now I think about it, drinking is beginning to become like that. It seems crazy now that I used to suffer hangovers so frequently. And I never told anyone how bad they were because it was all my own fault and I didn't want to admit to how much I'd drunk. What a crazy way to live.

Plenny, Nands - hope you guys are ok.

I'm off to clean cheerios off the floor... apparently they just jumped out of my son's bowl. Too late, the dog's eating them. Saved me a job. Hope everyone has/is having/will have a great day xxxx

Poppy79

Wedding is done. Such a relief. Speech went well. Bride cried. I'm exhausted, didn't drink, didn't want to drink. Watched people get trash bagged and was glad I won't be waking up feeling like poo tomorrow.
Will check in tomorrow, need a spatula to get this make up off
Xx

Dee74

I'm glad it's done Poppy. Sleep well

D

Ananda

It's me

I can't believe I haven't been here in 2 days! I got real busy with work around the house and kept forgetting to check in!

I just finished reading all the posts I missed and will be able to post this evening after 9pm my time (middle of the night for most of you.

I am ok health wise and mentally doing well as well.

I missed you even though it doesn't show

(nobenders club nands)

Steely

So good to see you Nands and even better that you are are feeling OK healthwise. Have been worried about you as your health stuff is not exactly minor from what I can work out. I really hope the doctors can work it out and you bounce back well and good. I have faith. You deserve it Nands, you're a trooper. You are my friend.

Thanks for giving me the thumbs up on my tomato soup kenton. After I posted I felt embarrassed so thought I'd let you know that I did add Basil.

It's not always like this in terms of food and stuff, but even a computer repair can cut hard into my budget. Next week will be better and am learning to not waste any food and save my pennies. Man, the money I wasted on grog I could have bought a flat.

I remember the baby food mash kenton, sieving it and all that jazz, but far better than the Heinz stuff which I still don't trust irrespective of what they say on the labels. "She did the mash, she did the baby mash". Jeez I'm a dork.

So happy for you Poppy in getting through the wedding with your head high. I knew you could do it!

Thinking of everyone and all of our trials and tribulations but we're doing it, and we're getting there through hook or by crook. We are such a supportive group and pull each other through no matter what the circumstance and you don't find that very often.

I'm going to do work in the house today too Nands. Slowly pulling it together to get myself out of here and open that new chapter kenton. I could make it the best chapter of my life so long as I'm sober. I'm so looking forward, but staying in the day best I can.

Thinking of you kev and it really does appear that you are getting stronger and stronger. Finding yourself which as it transpires, is my goal too.

You've got a head start on me kev, but still look forward to seeing us all at the finish line which in my mind turns out to be a beautiful waterfall and where we scoop the water joyfully. And being the good people we are we'll take pity on the dehydrated one's and give them our cup.

It feels so good to wake up sober.

kevlarsjal

Hi girls (and Dee)!

It's late and I didn't have the time to catch up but I need to get something off my chest again. Sorry for being so self-absorbed.

I went to a meeting tonight which is always really small and that one AA guy was there. I stayed anyway and it was okay and then a few of us went out for dinner afterwards (him included). I don't know what it is about him but something seems to attract me. I don't know in what way. I can't tell yet if it's just platonic or not. Tonight I found out that he's going through a break up.
I think the fact that I keep mentioning this here should alarm me. But I still think that maybe it's just that I like him as a person and get excited cause we can speak the same language. Cause I don't have many people to speak it to.
I get really mixed feelings everytime I see him.

The weird thing is that I am really committed to my relationship and things are going much better between me and my BF since we decided to take it slow. It makes me optimistic about our future.

I have no idea what the problem is or if there even is a problem.

kenton

I love imagining us all in the waterfall at the finish line Steely although knowing me I'll probably fall over in the waterfall and cause a whole drama getting rescued. Jeez, I'm embarrassing. Even when I'm sober I'm embarrassing. God knows what I must have been like when I was drinking. Maybe that's why I kept blacking out. It was my mind's way of being kind... so I couldn't remember and cringe about my drunken antics.

So tonight's embarrassment unfolded as follows..... tonight my husband and I and our kids went to a concert that is organised by an old school friend of mine. All the money raised goes to charity. It's set in these beautiful grounds. We sat down this slope near some open land where the kids could run around and play. It was a great evening. Great music, lots of laughs. I sipped my diet coke and all was good with the world. Then it starts getting dark and my youngest daughter runs over to us and she's found a backstage pass on the ground. She's really excited and we take a photo of her with it and then she puts it round my neck and runs off and I listen to more music and forget it's round my neck. Then I go to use the bathroom and when I'm walking back down the slope, I completely slip over in my sandals in the dark on the wet grass (it had been raining earlier) and do a fairly spectacular somersault down the slope. My husband and the kids are off dancing near the stage and I've landed on my back and have a moment or two of panic. Have I broken my back? My neck? Or just my pride? Some fairly drunk people have gathered around me now because they saw the somersault and they're helping me to my feet. I'm a bit dazed and confused and I think they're helping me back to where I was sitting but unknown to me they're taking me backstage because I'm still wearing the backstage pass round my neck. So then before I know it I'm in this tent surrounded by other people with backstage passes all looking confused because they don't know who I am. The kind, drunkish people who helped me to my feet are telling the proper back stage people about my fall and then someone turns up with an ambulance man. He asks if I need to go on a stretcher and at that point I just want to yell, "no I don't need a stretcher. I am a fraud. I'm wearing a back stage pass when I shouldn't be and everyone's making a fuss of me and I'm not even a little bit injured." Instead I thanked him for his offer of a stretcher, told the proper backstage people that they were doing a great job, thanked the kind samaritans for their help and limped out of the tent. Not sure why I limped. I think I just wanted to give them something. After all that fuss, I couldn't just samba out of the tent.

Apart from that incident, it was a fun, sober night. We saw loads of people waiting for cabs at the end of the night. I love that I can always drive us home but the best part is the total absence of a hangover tomorrow morning. That never ever gets dull.

Glad you're feeling good Nands and like you Steely, I love being part of this group. It's a safe place in a sometimes scary, sometimes hilarious world. Night/g'day/yo/guten tag nobenders xxx

Dee74

Hi Kev

no real new advice from me. I still see a lot of red flags but I understand the power of attraction. In a lot of ways it's not unlike the obsessing we used to do about alcohol.

As the English say, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Go slow and steady and take care of yourself in all of this

D

Dee74

I think thats the best story I've heard all week Kenton - nothing to be embarrassed about at all - tho I am glad you're uninjured

D

kenton

Sorry Kev, our posts crossed.

Keeping things simple is probably best for now. There's nothing wrong with being friends with the aa guy. But if he's going through a break up and you're working on your relationship with your bf, emotions can become confused and confusing. Think of it like your decision to stop drinking. Don't doubt the decision. You've decided you want to be with your bf. That's your decision. However confused you may feel, keep thinking back to that decision xx

kevlarsjal

Hahaha Kenton, I loved your story! The story itself is hilarious but I also just love the way you write. You said something really funny a few days ago and I wanted to point that out but then I forgot. Reading about your evening made me actually laugh out loud, I hope I didn't wake up my roomie.

If she saw me now she'd definitely call me an addict again. I'm just sitting in the kitchen eating whatever I can find to distract myself. So far i half a pack of Jaffa cake, a bowl of cereal, a bowl of soup, 2 slices of toast and now some leftover cake. What am I even doing? Trying to eat myself to sleep? I guess so... good that i bike everywhere these days, that'll make me burn the extra calories again.

Thanks both of you for your advice. I won't get romantically involved with that guy. I don't intend to. I don't think it would be good for him or me. Or my boyfriend. I'm really clear on that front. I just don't know how to handle the situation. If i should try to avoid him. But that's hard cause he goes to the same meetings. I am not in love with him or anything close to that. I just like him and I might have a slight weakness for his accent. Plus I love that I can speak to him in my favourite language. All of that together just makes me feel a bit drawn towards him. Which annoys me. But I don't want to risk my relationship for him or anyone.

Just wondering if I should stop talking to him. Which is difficult in a small meeting. And maybe that would be over reacting and a bit harsh? I don't know.

Steely

That is the best story ever kenton.

Was thinking (showing my age) wouldn't it have been good if it were a back stage pass to a Rolling Stones concert and (when he was young) lippy old Mick came over to tend your wounds with a big kiss on the cheek. That was so funny, but like Dee am glad you weren't injured.

You hide your light under a bushel kenton, you are a really funny girl. Love you so. I love us all because we know the drill and care about each other. It counts so much.

When getting ideas for writing I've sometimes thought it would make a good play to see us all come together for dinner, somewhat like the "Big Chill" a movie I really like.

What a far out dinner that would be, so many stories, so much laughter and tears, and I reckon we would like each other irl just as we do here in cyberspace. And age wouldn't matter, because we have a commonality that defies age. We will decant the cranberry juice and drink from crystal goblets. I can see us laughing now in a very cosmopolitan way. Just might write the bones of it with confidentiality assured.

Kev I can't agree more with both kenton and Dee, and though I can see no problem in having a friendship with with this fellow strongly advise, and I hate strongly advising, to Keep It Simple just as they say in AA. I have seen too many people get messed up when entering into romantic involvements with other members, particularly in early sobriety.

Your bf was so proud of you when you picked up your 9 month chip and you both seem to be working so well on your relationship, and as Dee says, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

Play it cool kev, talk, share and be friends is my advice, but most of all focus on yourself and your recovery.

Well, that's enough from mother Steely there's a bloke waiting for me downstairs looks like he's got the Big Book in his hands, but they won't be on me. Love you kev.

Dee74

As Kenton says there's nothing wrong with being friends, or simply friendly.
There's nothing wrong with a healthy sense of boundary either

If you can converse with this guy and not let it become something else in your head, then there's no problem

D

Ananda

Hey Kev,

I guess I'm gonna weigh in for what its worth ....

I have found that for me, if I have a certain level of intimacy with a man, I tend to end up with that sex drive kick. I've annalized it six ways from Sunday, and have lots of opinions on why ... fear that if there isn't sex they will eventually be off with someone else and leave me behind, Dad telling me that "this is how adults show love", etc. Whatever it is, I do know that sexual desire is originally not a bad thing, but like any other desire or instinct ... can get twisted or cause problems.

I'll share that I have crushed out on friends, only to realize later it was out of fear that they wouldn't stay my friend if we weren't sexual (and it was a load of **** in my head..not true at all). I also got some real sexual feelings toward my therapist for about 6 weeks early in our therapy. He is married, I set aside the feeling but didn't deny it or reveal it to him, the sexual desire that had come then left the building. I think if I had shamed myself or fought that the feeling was there it would have really wrapped me up.

Sometimes I can come across like I am anti-male or anti-relationships, and I'm really not. I just know that they can add to life or they can take away and I really like (on balance) being single.

In this case, I just have to say as Dee did ... "see a lot of red flags". But I see that both with your BF and with this AA dude. that said ... I got involved with a lot of red-flag men, got bruised and battered a lot (not physically), and I don't actually regret a one of them!

so ... two things...

When I talked to Dad the other day, I told him ... but you know she never loved you...after 6 months of marriage she decided she hated you and never came back ... I guess I expected him to be hurt, but he just looked at me with all the gentle love a ghoust can and told me "I know that. It doesn't matter. I loved her".

And when one of the men I loved wanted me back after a bad breakup, I remember leaving his life knowing that he was getting well for someone else. I loved him, but it just wasn't gonna be a me and him thing. 4 months later he started dating my old sponsor, they ended up married and have been together for the last 30 years. We are friends on facebook and it really is all exactly as it should be. And I still love him with all my heart, along with a number of other important men in my past life.

Ok .. I rattled on... Kev ... what ever you decide, whatever you do, it will be what you make of it. No right, no wrong (no matter how much I think I know those things ) Just a choice to be made (even if it is not to make a choice right now) and then you make the best of whatever life serves you after that... make more decision, make more lemonaide, and so forth.

You are doing so great!!!!

Ananda

OK - catch up comments (hug)

Steely - I noticed that I have started calling my father "Da" when I feel close to him. Strange cause I never called him that ... but somehow it expresses where I am at with him right now.

I hate that you are feeling such meanness coming from your son. I would find that hard to deal with, but you are right ... getting angry doesn't really help any, and besides .. under almost every anger lies a wound that needs tending (hug).

I thought of lots of other stuff ... but my brain can't hold a thought that long...

Plenty - I think it is great that you have decided to separate your sobriety from your boyfriends. That can be difficult and you may need some support for that as you walk through this. But isn't it amazing how much we learn about ourselves as we walk life sober!

Poppy - you are totally right ... this thread really kicks arse (and alchohol's arse)! You should post about yourself all you want. I think that is better than doing what I do ... back out and not engage at all. Often I think people need a safe place to just spill some of the wreckage of their brain out. As shrek says ... "better out than in!"

Kenton - I too loved your story of the concert! I think you were endearing and lovely ... not embarrassing at all!

Also, I think it is important to remember that, as you said, some people really prefer us drunk. Not to take that wrong, it doesn't always mean they want us to drink ... in fact many people in my life who desperately want me to NOT drink ... actually like the drunk me better than the sober me. Drunk is so much more easily manipulated. I mean, people who love me and care about me and don't realize they are manipulating still try (just as I often try with out realizing it to manipulate others). When I'm sober, I'm stronger and many people are not sure how to deal with that... especially in those first few years I think.

next post on me....

kevlarsjal

Steely, I hope you'll give that story a try, I like the idea very much. Probably cause it involves a lot of my favourite people

Thanks Nands for your post, it was really insightful. I did the same, sleeping with guys cause I didn't want them to leave. And in hindsight I know I just wanted their friendship but thought the only thing of interest that i could offer was sex. And it always ended up with them leaving me because their new girlfriends didn't accept our friendship because there was sex involved at one point. Even though that was always before their relationships started.

And I think it's the same here. I just like that guy as a person and I would like to connect with him and be friends. But I think that because I'm a girl they wouldn't respect me or find me boring. So the only thing that could be convincing or interesting is my body. I probably has to do with not respecting / liking myself and always having wished I was a boy/man. I always wanted to hang with the guys and it worked just fine until I was a teenager.

I have more to say but will do that later cause I'm meeting a friend from out of town for lunch (breakfast for me, still full from last night) now.

Speak later, lots of love!

Steely

First up I need to say kev that I did not want for my closing lines to you to be seen as trivialising. I did not mean them to be, sometimes I make jokes to avoid the real situation at hand. But with all my heart I care about what happens to you and have felt and done precisely as you.

Nands post was great and yes, I've slept with men because I thought it was all I had to offer. I think I have read somewhere that sexual abuse when young can lead to this sort of thinking and behaviour. I know that I became promiscuous following my own 'experience'. Could only see myself as sexual, and this was all that I was worth. I've come to see that this is so not true. Not saying that this has been your experience, but it was true for me.

Just wanted to let you know that like Nands I see red flags, but see nothing wrong with sex at all and I am not a man hater either. I simply think that in the early days it's better to develop friendships and support within AA (anywhere) as sex can make it ever so complicated. It will make for good practice to keep it as support and friendship which in my view far outweighs that of sex. Too easy.

Just wanted to let you know that I hope you did not see me as trivialising. My pathetic closing 'joke' was a "girlie" thing which as a girl I hoped you understood.

This really is a kick arse thread Nands. Talk soon.

Ananda

Good morning Steely!

Yes, the sexual abuse of my dad has really done a number on me. Some of it I have been able to unravel, but some knots are still there. Although he was to blame (along with my mom in many ways) I end up being the only person who can repair the damage done.

I've really had a great 4 days! My living room and kitchen are vastly improved. They need more work but I did some deep cleaning and shampooing the rug in spots. I'm just finishing my laundry today, and the garden is in order. I even put on a pretty dress today and put up my hair!

I'm weird cause I always prefer dresses. I camp in them, clean in them and garden in them. Unfortunately I don't have worn down dresses that fit, so I've been taken down to wearing my PJs, or sweats and T-s. I had always wanted, when I retired, to be able to not worry about convention and be able to dress up to my hearts desire, and even wear cocktail dresses, evening dresses, and even bridesmaid dresses if I so desired! If I do get my disability (which I actually don't think is likely) I will definitely go thrift shopping for fancy dresses!

I'm looking a lot at the Conservative Buddhist concept of following forms. It's basically that the form itself is empty and we put our own meaning into them. Following conventions is something we do every day ... following the rules of the road, standing in line, gifts at Christmas, what colors go together.... and on and on. I don't look at it as I have to follow every traditional thought pattern. I am at heart a radical rule breaker! It is more like ... if I decide to take on a form (which helps keep things simple and provides a framework for spiritual development) I need to stop fighting the form. Watch how I react. Put my own version of meaning into it. I can't really explain the value very well cause it sounds like it is like running with the sheep and that is not what I mean.

I'm trying to take a look at how my personal spiritual growth can fit within the broad liberal road of AA (not the tight arse one LOL). Actually part of the problem is at my heart I am rebellious and at the same time very into traditionalism (originalism). I don't know how I ended up with both traits in good measure, but I did.

Anyhow, wanted to check in. I hope to right again later.

kenton

Yay! Steely, I love the idea of your book. My character which I guess is me had an interesting experience earlier. We went to friends for a barbecue. I drove so the non drinking thing was not an issue. It was actually sunny in the UK today which shouldn't be a big deal in August but we haven't seen much sun lately so everyone got overexcited, lots of red wine got drunk in the sun and our friends got a bit tipsy. Nothing was a problem because I can handle being around drinkers and they're really cool people. Then they ran out of red wine. So they went off hunting for a bottle and came out with a £40 bottle of wine that someone had given them for a special occasion. My husband told them not to open it but they insisted. So my husband and our 2 friends each had a glass of this v expensive wine and I had a cup of tea and everything was absolutely fine. Then one of our friends said, "kenton, I know you're driving but you have to taste this wine to see how good it is. Why don't you just have a sip?" And then her husband said, "yes, Kenton, here - have a sip" and he poured a tiny bit of the wine into a glass and handed it to me. I could smell it and I have to say, it smelled good. It was almost as though our friends had suddenly become puppets and I imagined my AV as the evil puppet master doing everything it could to get me to taste the delicious wine. I thanked my friends but said that if I tasted it I'd probably want to drink the rest of the bottle and drain all their glasses so it was probably best for everyone that I stick to tea. Our friends laughed, my husband changed the subject and the moment passed.

It was interesting to me that I basically described alcoholism but the normal drinkers just thought I was referring to the quality of the wine. They thought I'd want to drain the bottle and their glasses because it was an expensive wine. Truth is, the price of alcohol means nothing to me. And the taste of alcohol means nothing to me. Once I start drinking I never want to stop. And it doesn't matter whether I'm drinking champagne or budget wine. Whatever it is and however it tastes, I'm going to want to drink it until I pass out.

Dee said once that it's the first drink that does the damage for people like us and the truth of that hit home for me today. I knew I couldn't even have a sip. And I know that if I make sure I never have that first sip, I've got a chance of beating this thing for good.

I'm sorry I haven't referred to anyone's posts. I just wanted to write this down whilst it's all fresh in my mind because it feels like something important happened tonight. It feels like I saw alcohol in a whole new light. I saw it for what it is. Regardless of the expensive bottles and the fancy wine glasses, it's a vile poison that traps people like us with one sip. I'm so grateful to be free xxx