Jimba

Awe I probably wouldn't have made the million anyhow, besides I've learned that no matter how much you love your BMW it will never love you back, just like drugs I guess.

My first business failed I owned a Nursery when I was 25 and nothing great to speak of since so life goes on.

Still sitting on 3 I can't get over this upset stomach and I have this ****** attitude I can't shake, not sure if it's best to sit on 3 for a while or keep going.

How is 6 are your symtoms starting to subside?

christin1225

I wish that I could advise, Jimba. It's so confusing when it doesn't seem to be getting better.

The physical symptoms were gone after about three days. The depression is horrible though. I don't know how much of it is the fact that I'm tapering (and this is a symptom) or how much is simply a matter of the addiction. I've heard people speak about getting to a point where they wanted to commit suicide. I haven't wanted to kill myself, but I have been feeling that I wish that God had allowed me to die before having me go through this.

The feelings are so horrible that, Thursday night, I was very tempted to drink. If my family wouldn't have wondered what was going on (I have consumed alcohol once in eighteen years and they don't know about it), I believe that I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I would have been to the liquor store and home in less than twenty minutes. I came very close to drinking down a bottle of NyQuil... just to get some relief from what I was feeling. All I could think was that, regardless of what the oxys did or would eventually do to me, at least I always stopped crying once they hit.

Jimba, there were many times that I would be on the computer to my (not then but now) sponsor, sobbing in desperation. I would take five oxys and, as I was typing, I would notice that I was still aware of the problem. I knew that it had to be dealt with. I knew that the pills had not made the problem go away. BUT! I was no longer crying about it. I can relate to that as though it were this morning. Sorry... I didn't mean to get so off track and wax eloquent on the benefit of the pills. But, it shows you where I'm at on the 6mg.

Although I was thinking about numbing with alcohol, I really wanted to numb with the oxys. I don't think that I would have been able to resist them if I didn't know that the Suboxone would block them. I wanted to try a couple, just in case 6mg left enough open in my head for the oxys to find an "in". But, I figured it was hopeless. Then, I considered taking a good dose of Sub. In the beginning, I discovered one day that I was able to raise my dose and get the slightest, most minute buzz (which eventually the compulsion ruined because it took over -- the perfect example of "one is two many..." -- anyway, I got terribly ill.) Although I didn't want a buzz, only to numb the hurt, I had a doctor's appointment early Friday morning. I couldn't risk getting sick. Besides, I've been on the Suboxone so long, I didn't think that I'd get anything from it. (If I'm completely honest, the risk of getting ill probably had little if anything to do with stopping me. I probably would have done it if I had thought that it would work, just another example of the excuses my head tries to get me to believe.)

It sucks, Jimba. I wonder, "Maybe I need to increase my Sub back to 8, maybe 10, or 12mg and see if I can stabilize somewhere that will stop all the thinking, feeling, craving, crying. Maybe staying on the Sub for a longer period of time won't be a mistake. Maybe things that I've read are wrong. Maybe I don't need to worry about PAWS." Then I fight back with the part of me that wants to get clean and I wonder, "Is the Suboxone, because it's an opioid, breathing life into my physical addiction and that is the reason that I feel like this? Is the only way to get free of the hold that my addiction has on me, to get off the Sub?

I try to be hopeful. I tell myself that I have an appointment with a new doctor this coming week. But then, I look back and I see how I keep looking for the next thing to make me better. I keep hoping to find a way to acceptance. I can't stand being two people. It's driving me crazy and it makes sense that it's only making the depression worse. But, I can't become one person either. (And then I can't stand the fact that I'm an emotional leech or maggot or whatever it is that I am). I hate this sooo much. I want it to be like it was before I picked up, but I can't be who I was. I've tried but I can't seem to get back there. And I can't figure out how I can be what is left. And so, I cry... It sucks. It really does.

Jimba

My doc says that you can take sub for life if you need to soon to be on the market is an injection that will last 6 months to a year. I was kind of appauled, always thinking about myself first. But it may be the case that some need it, that kinds part of the discussion I wanted to spurn with that post. But people tend to develop anger because of the fight and pain they have been through.

Now always feels like forever and once it's gone like it never happened, we are just left with the residue. You will never be what you were, but perhaps wiser happier and more understanding. I understand you were maybe wound pretty tight. I wonder if you were depressed or had anxiety before u started to use.

I understand and can relate to your feelings completly, but I have been here before a long time ago. Tomorow will come and bring better days, you have to start putting some of the issues to rest which are making a hard task impossible. They have detox where they put you out for a couple of days scrub the receptors and bam detox is over I believe it's about 7gs and you get a 14 day stay with support. It's what I should have done in the first place. I know you have the family problem, you don't have to tell all to be honest about your problem.


Get to the Dr. I know he can help, I think something for anxiety would make a big difference for you. I'd roll the dice and get the good stuff and be aware use it and dump it, but most would tell to go the non addictive route. They are probably right.

And print your last post give it to him and let him read it, take all the suicide stuff out, unless it is something you have seriously considered. The post I think will give you Dr. some insight. Don't let him or her pass it off make them read it!

Jimba

Day 8 I think, at 3 I am considering the move to 2 on monday a little nervous. Maybe cut 1/2. But the longer I wait the longer I have to wait I just started feeling normal again. My stomach is my biggest problem at this point and sleep was good last night. I want to be done with this so bad.

Chistin, I don't know your total history I wish I did, I think you are being harder on yourself than need be. If you have time if you PM me a nut shell version.

Tomorrow is Mothers Day I hope you all have a good one and forget all the bad stuff and be aware of what you have given to all of us.

christin1225

I think that I just lost my post. So, sorry if I end up posting twice. I just wanted to tell you that you are doing so good, Jimba! I hope that you are proud.

I'm going to bed. I'm very tired. ((Hugs)) to everyone, especially to all who struggle tonight.

jane_668

Christin, I know it's very hard on you.I've been struggling myself for the last 2 days. I have 75 days clean and I still wonder whether I can hang in drug free. Many doctors prescribes anti-depressant easily just like subutex. It would be easier for me to get on anti-depressant. However, I'll just wait more time. recovery is hard and if it was there would be no addicts out there using again. We have a disease that is so cuning and bafling. Yesterday, I was crying all night long for no reason. I felt sorry for myself. I felt it was unfair. My friends kept telling me that it's normal and they've all been there.I kept reading the BB literature perhaps I could find some story that would inspre me.

So sweetie it takes time and effort. Perhaps before deciding to increase your dose you should switch your doctor and get a second opinion on this.

Jimba

Where are you christin and what's been happening?

christin1225

Thanks for wondering, Jimba. It was a very hard weekend. Saturday, I was the lowest that I have ever been. For the first time, I understood what is meant at the end of the NA meetings when they have the time set aside for the "burning desires", which is described as a person who wants to use, hurt themself or someone else. I've wanted to use before, but never hurt myself or someone else. Saturday, I did. I was so frustrated and angry and despondent that I felt as though if I could hurt myself, it would be better. I didn't want to kill myself, but I wished that God had let me die while I was using. It was horrible. I was even getting miffed at the things that my sponsor was suggesting, even though I knew what she was saying. They only made me feel worse and more frustrated and more angy. It was aweful!

I filled the anti-depressant and anxiety med that had been given to me on Thursday. I couldn't go another day feeling like I was. Yesterday, I took the Neurontin and got so loopy. I was so drugged or drunk or something. My kid noticed and commented. We were talking and I'd cut out mid sentence of what I was saying. That happened on 2/3 of the prescribed dose. I woke up hungover and dopey this morning. I don't think that I'll take any more until I speak with the new doctor on Thursday.

But, I'm feeling better today. I'm not sure why. I have a couple theories. But, they're just theories. The cravings are better today, though they seem to be getting worse as the hour gets later. The anxiety has been pretty steady the last couple hours (even though it was pretty non-existent today)

Okay... enough about Christin (though I sure can go on for a long time!). How is my friend, Jimba? Give me a paragraph, okay? I'm starting to feel selfish. I type a paragraph or two and you reply in three lines or less .

Jimba

Im a man of few words and although, I feel like my battle if I talk about it I feel like I am weak. It has been rough, it does sound like you are having a much harder time with your cut and if you are that bad and its been like at least two weeks you might consider going back to you recommended dosage until you get to the Dr.. It is only a week to go but that can feel like a lifetime. Don't white knuckle it! Be careful, this is a trifle and you will find you way soon, an easier way I can feel it. I wish I could help more, but I guess you have a sponsor hopefully a good one. Its sounding like you aren't getting the best advise.

And by the way the symptoms of PAWS can be avoided with exercise. Exercise is dangerous because it wakes up all those little receptors which want the feel good chems, so you have to watch it, but it will help with negative emotions. You ever run??
Running is the next best thing to drugs. It takes a lot more effort but it feels good. You have a gym near by. It might even help now with your cravings. If you have a gym near by. Go get on the stair climber for an hour, I guarantee you won't feel like using after that. I should take my own advise.

I'm doing okay, struggling with making the cut down to 2 because of my stomach its uncomfortable all the time. I also fear that when I cut craving and the images will increase and my emotional position weaken. My niece is having her birthday on Friday in San Diego, I think I will make my cut after the dinner, her sister has a crazy disease I think its ALS, horrible you have some sort of injury usually a bacterial infection but it can be like trauma like a broken leg, once your body heals your brain does not recognize that its healed and continues the process of trying to heal the previously injured area, swelling and on on, its very painful shes on morphine etc etc. I need to see her. We all grew up together like brother and sisters. Relationships that have been pushed to the side by life and the problems that come with it. I should be the stonge one and hold things together, but I have not, because of my issues. I need to go and be good and sociable. So I need the drugs to prop me up for the night. I'll cut after that.

christin1225

Jimba,
What made you decide against detox? It seems to me that detox could be a good option for you, especially because tapering is drawing out the withdrawal so long. I wish that I had it as an option. It's my own fault that I don't, still it's no less impossible.

Few people understand my situation and some actually become hostile about it, so I risk being put on the defensive every time that I mention it. Regardless of what others may think that I should be able to do, it's my reality and I simply cannot bring myself to tell my family or my work, just yet, and both would need to be notified if I were to go through detox. And today, I can feel the depression creeping back (or at least what I call "depression." It's actually a hopelessness about my situation and continuing as I am until I can finally get clean. I can't accept things as they are. Yet, I can't change them. And, I can't numb the feelings until they go away because, first of all, the very action of numbing would defeat what I'm trying to accomplish and... believe it or not, I've forgotten what else I was going to say. Sleep did not come easily last night and was almost non-existent. Perhaps that is much of my problem today.

So, back to my question, Jack. At one time, you were considering going into detox. What happened to make you decide against it?

jane_668

Jimba and Chrsitin, how are you doing?

I was crying today as I driving home. I couldnot believe it that I was finally free. I am really grateful today. I have 78 days clean and still counting. I know it's hard but it's worth it. I posted on one of my old threads today to ahow my gratitude. You can check it. I'm glad I donnot have to live like that anymore. Recovery is possible. It's not always easy but possible. Never give up. Everyone kept telling me that I cannot make it without rehab. I kept relapsing till I finally got it. So don't worry if you're a little late in tapering. It doesnot matter. The most importnat thing is not go back to using and misery. It called tapering for a reason. It means take your time. Even if you can only decerase 0.5 mgs a month. The most important thing is not to quit trying.

Jimba

Your the poop lady good for you, you deserve a big oxy. Bad joke. I am happy you are making it. Its day to day. Once you cross a line mentaly it is so easy to cross it again so be wise be careful.

You nailed it, we all have set backs, slips or just need to take a break and circle the wagons. the important thing is we don't circle the wagons everynight snd it doesn't become habit again.

Christin is gonna be right where you are soon.

christin1225

And when she gets there, it's going to be real crowded because Jimba will be there too.

jane_668

Jimba, well yeah that was a bad joke. Am I not trying to sound wise. If I was wise I wouldnot have chosen this road. My wisest decision got me to AA. I stopped trying to fix things . My way failed badly and I was ready to search for a new one. I quit fighting. I know that I have a disease. We all have no guarantees . All what we have is today. I don't try to worry about tomorrow. I try to live in today. I may relapse tomorrow, I may not. Why would I bother to think about it? All what I got is today and today I'm free. That's enough for me. You're free to call me what you want. It's your business.

Jimba

Wisdom doesn't come to those who walk the line, it come to those who take the Heros journey, there and back again, you've fought demons that most just choose to live with. You deserve great acolades for what you have done. Most people may not appreciate your struggle because of the stigma attached and you may feel shame but you should not you truely are wise and are a heroin. Another bad joke. Hero. I hope you didn't take what I said negativly poop was in the venacular sense, the **** man. Which is good.

Plus you take the time to help others along the way, that's a big deal too.

Tish28

Jimba, Christin and Jane - I need you. I haven't been on site for quite a few days because I've been feeling so screwed up. I am screwed up. I so badly need a sponsor who knows how to work the whole steps through, and more, much more.
I have failed miserably in my life and I am continuing to do so. The doctor gave me tramadol for back pain - needless to say, I wolfed down the lot. No reaction, Subutex saw to that, and now I have no more subs until thil the 29th. What on earth was I hoping for??
I'm sick, but what does the rest of my life hold for me. Fisso feels thatby following the tweve steps, is a sect. It's a way of life for me - THE way of life. He doesn't want me to help others, he says let them die in theirown sh*t. It get worse. I can't go on into the details, theyareshocking.

Why can't I just let go of Fisso? I'm afraid of killing him, He says that he does everything for me and I do nothing in return, and I am afraid of being alone. But I can't live like this. I have cried for three days, and I am crying now. I feel so worthless and hopeless. I can't even get a doctor for goodness sake.

I've also lost Thomas, heprefers to live with his fatherfull time. I'm not one to commit suicide, but I don't see any point in living right now.

Jimba

Man this is a bad week, Christen needs help aswell. I am here for whatever I can do from so far thousands of miles.

I don't even know where to start.

It's a proven fact that addicts communicating about recovery has a physical healing effect on the brain as well as just the cognitive bennifits. Doesn't Fisso realize that attending meeting and doing so is helping others. I mean that's a big part of the whole org. As well as conventional scientific research.

So u are going through WDs now?

Jimba

Do you have any family to help????

christin1225

Jimba,

Just popping in to say, "Hi!" And to let you know that you are loved. You are such a compassionate guy, I just want you to know that I'm thinking of you.


Tish, post when you can, honey. You are not in a good situation and you are not in a good place. I keep asking (please forgive me for hounding), why is detox and rehab not an option for you? It could help put you on the road to solving so many of the problems that you are having right now. :praying

jane_668

Jimba , you are very caring. You have a great heart. I wish you the best.

Tish, I'm glad you checked in.

My friend , I can see you are in pain. You don't have to live that way. You know there's a way out. It's a hard road but not as painful as being stuck. You know you have a problem. The steps are meant to help you deal with life clean and sober. They don't get you clean. You have to check into detox. You have to clear the fog before you can work on the steps. They can give you med that would make the wd some how easier. Forget about everyone. you have to take care of You now. If he likes it or not, it's his problem and not yours. You have to take care of Tish. Tish is soo Worth it. Tish has the right to live happily just like anyone of us. You are never alone.