Jimba

Yeah for the pooper!!!!! I had a lot of fatigue at tapering from high doses. Your body is going to tired cuz your not high. As for the anxiety and weight on your chest talk to the dr. about short term anxiety relief. Don't feel bad, life doesn't come in a package to be put in the microwave and out pops thanksgiving dinner in 4 min.. Trial and error, failure and adjustment, just keep it up. You honestly don't sound far off from what I have experienced, but I have taken time off and am not married no kids and got my bills taken care of for 6 months.

Your doing good and don't take it hard, like I said we'll make it together.

Put yourself first and get a lot of rest and sleep. Thats rest and sleep!

jane_668

Christin, please talk to your doctor. Anything could be causing your anxiety. He may give you some non addictive anti-anxity meds. The doctors are there to help us so please use this option. Keep him informed of what's going on with you. Our experiences are all different so you will get different answers on this board. Only a qualified doctor will be able to help you.

Please post any time you're feeling wds. We're here for you. But please beware Christin that the longer you're on sub the longer the wd. Try to cut down today to 6mgs and if you feel any wds again you can take another 2mgs. This way you'll have less 8mgs and more 6mgs and eventually your body will learn how to stabalize on 6mgs. Please please keep posting. Don't feel disappointed for what you're going through or feel bad that it happened only with you. We're are different people and I'm sure many out there have had your experience. Dear Christin, patience is the key. Just hang in tough. I can hear you. I know it sucks especially that it was going on with since you started tapering but hey we're fighting for our lives here. Addiction is not a joke and our lives are definately worth saving. So:

Just Hang in no matter what!!! We're here with you and You're NOT Alone.

Love
Jane

scaredtostp

christian, just a thought, but are you letting the suboxone dissolve completely under your tongue and against your inner cheek? Just a thought...im sure you are doing it all right.....just looking for answers for ya.........its strange how some dont feel any wd until they go below 4mg, maybe your body does not use the sub the way it should.....what a battle you are going through but i know one thing, fighting the sub reduction, and dealing with big anxiety must be tough, you need, imo, something to take care of the anxiety, when they gave me the ativan for anxiety, ill bet my wd were reduced by more than 50 percent. Its worth a try i think......love Don:ghug3

christin1225

Jane, thanks! My current doctor schedules 10-minute visits. He doesn't listen. I have an appointment with him this week, but an appointment with another doctor next week (who may not take me, so I don't dare tick off my current doctor).

I've spoken with the nurse of the new doctor and if he accepts me (his practice is part-time), he has his patients keep a daily journal and his patients bring the journal in and he discusses what's been happening on a daily basis. The appointments average 20-30 minutes. Everyone is scheduled for 30 minutes. I can't imagine that level of care! And he'll bill my insurance (the same amount of money per visit as my current doctor charges).

I'm trying to be patient until I see the new doctor. I'm really afraid that my current doc might drop me if I put up too much of a fuss. He knew that anxiety was what led me to taking the pills and had prescribed something at the first visit. But, I had hallucinations from it (it was a medicine used for schizophrenia which is actually an opiate uptate blocker!!) He has never prescribed anything since. It was like, "Well, if you didn't like what I prescribed the first time. Oh well.) Maybe he doesn't know any non-addictive meds.

Anyway, all that's okay now that I have another doctor in the works. I don't feel so trapped. I was really frustrated before. But, I forget easily and the longer that it gets from my previous visit, the more guilty I feel for looking for another doctor. But, each time that happened, I have my visit, need to discuss something and can't, and leave frustrated.

I took an extra 2mg on Friday night. Even though I was still sick on Saturday, it wasn't nearly as bad as Thursday or Friday nor was the anxiety as bad. So, I stuck to 6mg yesterday and will again today. I'm still afraid to eat, though.

It's been suggested that I metabolize Sub differently/quickly. I met another girl in IOP who had some of the same problems as I had with it in the beginning. I've read stories about how Sub has "turned" on people after a year or more of of using. Some of what I have already experienced has resembled those stories.

I thank everyone for being here for me (especially since this is primarily Jimba's thread). I've really been hijacking it lately and the fact that he doesn't mind is a testament to how great of a guy he is!

How are you doing today, Jimba?

Don... oh I wish that I could do it totally the way that you did. I admire you so much! I don't know much self-control I could have with Ativan. Thanks for sticking with me.

Jimba

I feel crappy, anxious a little depressed, I like you have a life long long problem with anxiety. I stuck to 3mg today day 3 I hope this is the turn around day. Though I know I have a day or two hopefully not of getting worse but at least even keel. Regular BM turned into the big D again. I squirted at Wal Mart. Oh God. Body hurts, don't wanna talk to anyone feel like crap did I say that.

Things are coming back to me now that I didn't like. Its good you have got a doc that will spend more time with you. It a lot of your detox symptoms may not have to do with the sub. but with your possible anxiety disorder. I think everyone here is aware that we are not Dr.s but Dr. are just people and people are by nature fallible and pshcology is young blah blah blah. If this Dr. does not get it done find another and another until you get it right. Don't take anything they hand you until you do the research yourself.

You are doing good with the sub., don't make yourself too uncomfortable you have so many environmental factors and a possible imbalance that makes you feel anxious.

Jimba

Hijack away you helping me out with you dialogue, with jane, we have some of the same problems I may just not be as apt to talk about them.

And eat and drink, if you dont your symptoms will get worse, especially you need to drink, drink a lot like a gallon of liquid a day. Dehydration will cause feelings of anxiety and worse.

jane_668

Right on spot Jimba. Personally, i'd prefer to stay stuck on sub then relapse on my DOC. At least on sub ,I'd be stable and won't die from OD or mess my life. So Christin ,dont worry. Keep doing what you feel is helping you. If you feel comfortable being on sub a bit longer till you find a good doctor then do it.

christin1225

Pretty amazing! Do you know that, Jimba? You start this post talking about how shxtty you feel (literally shxtty if I kept in the part about WalMart) and then you spend two paragraphs addressing my struggle! You are too kind.

How are you today?

Jimba

I felt good today but Im really feeling like **** now, so you aren't going to get your 2 paragraphs tonight. Ill get you in the morning though. I am starting to have those how am I ever going to live without drug this is impossible feelings. Maybe today is my trun around lets hope so, i dont even know how many days it is now on 3 I think 4. Check on the adavant.

Jimba

For god sakes I can't even enjoy a coke and a cigarette. Gahhh! That's bad.

jane_668

Jimba, you're doing great. I know it's a bit tough but all you have to think about is getting through today.

That kind of thinking won't get you anywhere. Try to shift your focus from drugs. Try to stay busy. A friend in recovery told me that he used to call his sponsor when he was feeling anxious and his sponsor would suggest clean the kitchen . After two hours he'd call back and tell him that he's still anxious, his sponsor would reply" but now you have at least a clean kitchen" lol. So the bottom line is do anything,whatever, to keep your self busy and this way you won't concentrate too much on ur wds. I know that me alone with myself is a bad company. Perhaps you can hang out with some non using friends. Anything, do anything , but don't fall in the pity-party trap. That's tthe worst that you could do. Remember our disease is so cunning and bafling. We'll always every now and then find means to convince ourselves that recovery sucks and start glamorizing about our previous drug use. However, all what we have to do is get through the next 24 hours clean. That's it.

christin1225

You are doing so good, Jimba! Isn't it odd how you lose track of days? Each day can seem so long. I wish that I had a ton of words to encourage you for when you wake in the morning. I went to bed early (though I'm awake now, obviously ). So, I'll just tell you that I get so much encouragement from you.

I hope that this was your turnaround day. My fingers are crossed and I'm praying for you. We will know fairly soon, right?

Jimba's ongoing tapering results:

scaredtostp

Way to go jimba, your doing it, soon you will be free from the suboxone, 4mg seems to be the cut off point of where subs still stop wd for most, good job, from here on in the wd symptoms will most likely get stronger and this pill they call suboxone is one powerful little pilll, is still potent at the low dose of 4mg, the most noticable drop will be when you drop from the 4mg down, most likely two or three days after the decrease from 4mg to three or two mg. Hang in there, it will be a rocky road till the end,,,,,you can and will do this, if i can detox in a detox centre from oxy, you can do thisslow reduction hug

jluke

Interesting stuff in here. I have been hooked mostly on vikes (and rare/but occasional H snorting) for a few years and will start the subs on Thursday. Dr said take 3, 8 mgs after 48 hours of wd but I doubt I will go the full 48, probably more like 24. I'm taking 2 vacation days and will tell my wife I got some bad food (I really hate to admit this to her, but maybe as things progress....).

This sounds like the sub wd will be tough though.

christin1225

jluke,

Some have a harder time coming off Sub than others. What timeframe is your doctor looking at having you on the Sub?

Like you, I have a spouse who does not know of my addiction. However, being able to get to the point that I can be honest with him is something that I'm working on. I hope that you find a way to be honest with your wife.

Does your doctor recommend meetings? They are an important part of recovery.

How's it going, Jimba?

Jimba

It is a bit of a mind F***, I am actually doing well. Jane is right as long as you keep busy. Its like having the flu when you don't have the flu, hard to explain. Anxiety is a problem, but I don't know if that just the Sub, I have always had a little anxiety. Its not horrible, Thats just how I felt at that time, 80% was ok and very bearable, and its been like a 5 day cycle for me 3 days okay 2 or 3 days crappy and then back to feeling good I am on day five now feel okay better than yesterday and hopefully better tomorrow.

Dr.s tell you all kinds of crazy stuff. I started taking sub 8 hrs after my last dose of vics 15 of them if you wait 24hrs and 3 subs you will be floating on the clouds man. 48 hours and your half way through complete detox aren't you??? Dose sounds high to what did he tell you for daily dosage.

I'm not a Dr. but read around educate yourself and if you can talk to other Dr. and read the boards and ask questions and do it now not in 5 months.

Here's the other thing ask Jane what she did or Jane if you could chime. I made the mistake of letting the sub take the place of my DOC and my body became addicted to them. You may want to stay on them for a longer term if you are afraid of relapse. If your not use it to detox. There is a 21 day schedule all over the net and I think on the Suboxone website.

Jimba

Yeah I'm on a cakewalk compared to what you did my friend. Your a tough hombre for sure, we have talked and I am glad you are still around. A lot of the using feel are psychological, lifestyle and habitual things I need to address cognitive not physical. Some are physical, but sub for me was better than the alternative and I didn't want to spend the dough on the Wiesenhiemer method where they put you under "scub" all the opiates and opioids from your little receptors and whala 2 days you are clean no WD, I think the going rate cheapy is about 8,000 grand. Looking back I have probably come close with the sub not quite but close.

Tell us how you are doing since you got out.

Angelic17

Jimba, I have been following all of your posts, and I am so happy for you. I can tell you really want to be clean, and your doing a great job of getting there. I did a rapid detox off of suboxone also. The 2 mgs are tiny, and you need to melt them under your tongue. If you just swallow them, they don't go into your blood stream the right way. Another heads up for you is, Stay away from caffeine. It is not good for detox. If you must have coffee, drink decaf. It tastes the same, and it will avoid anxiety. Anxiety sucks,and it is one of the worst parts of withdrawal. All the treatment centers know this and tell you to avoid caffeine. Good Luck, Your doing great.

jluke

Jimba and Christin,

Thanks for the advice. The Dr (a shrink) gave me a script for 90 8mg tabs with a refill, plus a lot Requip for the RLS, which I suffer from anyway, so it's double bad in wd. I was honest about my quantity of daily pills but never mentioned the occasional H snorting, which I liked but you just can't function right the next day at work, so I never used it on a regular basis anyway.

I am at work now and only took 2 vikes this morning and probably another 3-4before the day is over and then I plan to do 24 hrs wd then 3 of the subs as prescribed every 24 hours (this is really cutting back on the pills, but I don't feel bad today, actually very happy because I see a light at the end of this crazy tunnel).

She says the subs will work much better with the lower dose of opiates before going thru the wd, but I don't think I can wait the 48 hrs she said was best. This will be interesting because I have dozens of vikes at home but I'm sure I can stay off them for 24 hrs because I really want to stop this crap now. I haven't felt the wd for 2 years so I'm sure it will be much worse this time. I gave it a trial run last night (no pills from 5:00 PM to 12:30 AM, only 6 during the day, but I could not sleep, even with 2 xanax and I had to be at work today, so I took 1.5 vikes and got some sleep). But, no work Thursday or Friday, so I don't care if I'm up all tonight with the wd symptoms.

It looks like I really will need to get off the subs ASAP. I have to do a follow up with the Dr after the weekend and I'm sure she will recommend this time frame.

Taking the subs after 8 hrs of any opiates kind of puts you in a limbo withdraw land for a couple days (meaning neither drug is working), doesn't it?

Can you get some xanax for the anxiety? I find 1 or 2mg does help me when I get like that. They say the xanax and subs are only safe if you don't get crazy with the amount of xanax.

christin1225

jluke,

I started the Sub 12 hours from my last dose of oxy which was NOT long enough to wait. I knew that it wasn't because you need to be in moderate to severe withdrawal. But, fear made me listened to my doctor and I started. Once you start and the bupe knocks off the opioids still sitting comfortably on their receptors, you will NOT be a happy camper. Although I continued to take the Suboxone, I was sick for 30 hours.

Use the following scale to determine that you are sufficiently in withdrawal to start.

http://www.csam-asam.org/pdf/misc/CO...flow_sheet.doc

You may want to start a thread for support while waiting to induct yourself on the Sub. If you start a thread, please let us know on this one (tell us the title of your thread) so that we can come aboard and support you if able.

I'm shocked to find that a doctor gave a refill on Suboxone. I think that's expecting a lot of accountability on the part of an addict.