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Leaving SR and done with treatment

Old 04-30-2009, 11:36 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
There is a big focus in my recovery on getting away from selfishness and self-seeking, on getting out of the me first, I'm so important mindset. The people I surround myself with today are people that love me enough to tell me the truth, even when it isn't comfortable. Katie is sick, just like me, and I don't begin to get better if I live in delusion, manipulate, and run away when I don't get my way.

Hmmm. Something to think about.

What exactly makes one “selfish” and “self-seeking”? I would like someone to explain this, please. I see these phrases used frequently around here. Anyone care to give their definition?
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:34 PM
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I would but I would make reference to the Big Book and AA.
I do not wish to offend in the secular forum.
But if anyone is interested. The pages 60-62 in the Big Book address this VERY well.
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:45 PM
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Hmmm I don't think there was anything grandiose or self-seeking about what Katie did. She posted because she was upset. And she never said that she would stop trying to recover. Interesting how her post was interpreted by others.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I merely asked the question yesterday regarding what a first time DUI offense costed. Two threads I posted were deleted. Good and Great. Was merely trying to find a way to rationalize, in my guilt, having spent thousands of dollars on dealing with addiction.

You know, I am done. I won't post here further, as I'm not wanted anyway, and won't even bother to go to treatment tonight. I am sick and tired of people and pain. Whatever.
You don't see this as her being grandiose or her saying she was giving up on treatment, even if just for the night?
I find that interesting.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:07 PM
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I see it as an emotional overreaction, nothing more. I believe it is fairly common to early sobriety.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:34 PM
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I'm interested in what individuals here have to say, not what's written in a book (no offense). Does anyone want to say what they think "self-seeking" and "selfishness" means?
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:34 PM
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I didn't read the threads you are referring to so I can't comment on them. But Katie, IMO, I don't see where you dropping out of treatment and not posting here anymore is going to prove any kind of point. The ONLY thing that is going to do is help you go right back out again.

I've posted things before that were deleted and have had pictures that were taken off due to people complaining about them. I mean, I didn't see anything wrong with a guy in a little swim trunk holding a bouquet of balloons with Happy Birthday on them but apparentally someone was offended. OK, so be it. I can't please everyone all the time. If I broke a rule, ok. I broke a rule. But I am not going to let anything stop me from getting everything I need in order to remain clean and sober and in Recovery. I've had several PM's sent to me by the mods over the past few years letting me know some things I said were, as far as SR rules and regulations, not appropriate. I can't let that upset me. After all, who posted these things? Me! I didn't know, learned from it and have to move on.

I just look at it as another one of life's lessons. After all, if there weren't rules, this world would be completely off the hook!

Judy
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:41 PM
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I'd like to make my previous post a little more clear. Even if someone gets the definition out of a book and agrees with it, I'd like to hear about it in that person's own words.

I'm a big believer in defining terms in order to better understand where people are coming from. I suppose I could crack open a dictionary, but that doesn't give me any idea of individual interpretations of these words.

--Thanking any takers in advance.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:43 PM
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Also, what behaviors and thoughts make one either "selfish" or "self-seeking"?
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:55 PM
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define: selfish - Google Search

define: self-seeking - Google Search
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:58 PM
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Thanks for the links, PD, but I really want to hear what people here have to say...what these words mean to them in their own words. I've looked up these words countless times, but I would like to understand where folks are really coming from on this.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:01 PM
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For example, my view on "self-seeking" doesn't fit the traditional definition. To me it means inner searching...reflection of one's self and one's actions, whether negative or positive. To find the real me...to search out who I am.

In this fashion, I "self-seek" to find peace with myself.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Does anyone want to say what they think "self-seeking" and "selfishness" means?
I'm feeling brave today, I guess. For me, it all boils down to viewing the world with 'I want' right out there in front. When I was drinking it was obvious. I want to go buy more booze, so it doesn't really matter if I'm too drunk to drive. I want some affection and attention from a female, so it doesn't matter if I'm already married. I want to stay home, so it doesn't matter if we have to cancel plans.

In sobriety, the same 'I want' attitude got a little more subtle for me, but it still shows up. It becomes a little more self-seeking or self-centered. I see it most often these days in trying to seek approval. I want to be liked by all of you, so I'll tailor my message slightly so you'll enjoy it. Even more subtle, is I want you to love me, so I'll do nice things for you. On the surface, I'm doing nice things for you. But really, I'm just looking out for what I want.

Take it to self-centered, and it gets even harder to see. I walk into a room and I think someone is ignoring me. Or they care what I say. The reality is, they probably haven't given me a thought, but I'm so concerned with myself, I think they might be concerned with me.

When I think the world is just so unfair, it's because I place too high a value on myself. I want to be important. I want to be respected. In fact, I demand these things. The reality is that the world doesn't care one bit about what I want. The world (life) just is as it is. But I get five kinds of bent out of shape when it doesn't respond how I want it to. Selfish.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
For example, my view on "self-seeking" doesn't fit the traditional definition. To me it means inner searching...reflection of one's self and one's actions, whether negative or positive. To find the real me...to search out who I am.
That would be very different from what I was talking about. I'd probably call that self-searching.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
I want to be important. I want to be respected.


That's just being human.



Only speaking for myself here, but every action any human being takes is always going to be selfish in part. Altruism does exist to a degree, but people do things for others because in a way it makes them feel good (and sometimes there is reciprocation), so there is no such thing as a completely selfless act.

I am interested in hearing about what specific things people do on a daily basis to help others, to take the focus away from themselves. Is it as simple as holding open a door for someone, or perhaps doing charity work, etc?
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
That would be very different from what I was talking about. I'd probably call that self-searching.


Seeking, to me, is a form of searching.


I think the phrase "self-serving" would be more appropriate for people to use rather than "self-seeking".
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:21 PM
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bam...one of the tools i use is to try and think in terms of the we...get away from the you and me....so, instead of seeing a problem at work as being something that i and my boss tussel over, it is about how do "we" approach and work through it together.

helping others? when i participate in finding a solution with others instead of against others...if you know what i mean...building and maintaining an atmosphere of team rather than competition....

I open doors and stuff too...but i guess i don't see that as the big deal stuff...if yu know what i mean...for me it's more about putting good into the lives of others...often through encouragement, laughter and providing a listening ear.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
For example, my view on "self-seeking" doesn't fit the traditional definition. To me it means inner searching...reflection of one's self and one's actions, whether negative or positive. To find the real me...to search out who I am.

In this fashion, I "self-seek" to find peace with myself.
That was my train of thought when I picked my user name, long before cracking AA's big book. Now I am just too [email protected] stubborn to change it

I have come to understand what self-seeking means in AA-speak as what I would call "self promoting". Always looking to be the center of attention and whatnot. For me personally, I have to look out for being a good listener, letting the person talking have the floor without interjecting my own opinions. (Hehe, bet you NEVER would have guessed that). I try to listen without comparing myself/my own thoughts and experiences to what that person's talking about. Because OMG I'm not the center of the world!
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Thanks for the links, PD, but I really want to hear what people here have to say...what these words mean to them in their own words. I've looked up these words countless times, but I would like to understand where folks are really coming from on this.
Ditto what someone else said, when I was an active alcoholic, my disease became the most important thing, it ultimately trumped everything. Living that way for an extended period, the most natural thing in the world, even after become sober, is to hold onto those behaviors that served us so well in active addiction.
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Old 04-30-2009, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
but every action any human being takes is always going to be selfish in part. Altruism does exist to a degree, but people do things for others because in a way it makes them feel good (and sometimes there is reciprocation), so there is no such thing as a completely selfless act.
I've had this discussion before. While it is very interesting from a philosophical viewpoint, I haven't found it to be of much use in recovery.

Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
I am interested in hearing about what specific things people do on a daily basis to help others, to take the focus away from themselves. Is it as simple as holding open a door for someone, or perhaps doing charity work, etc?
Well, I've taken up enough real estate on this thread already, so I'll leave that to others.
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