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Leaving SR and done with treatment

Old 05-04-2009, 03:06 PM
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AND we are back to that topic! Just so you know Katie, you are more versed in that "other method" than I am. I have never been to a recovery meeting of any sort. I have not aligned myself with any method, save my own. I do think sometimes people just need support and love, and it makes me happy to give it. In your original post, you appeared to be having a good old fashion temper tantrum, and I chose to ignore it.
I also become foul tempered when I am sick, and in a foul temper I prefer coddling. In recovery, I am also a fan of honesty and the occasional kick in the pants when I need it.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:14 PM
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I see alot of things called "tough love" that seem to have very little to do with love or caring or service or help. I don't think love really come in tough or gentle...it's just love same as caring, service or help. (from what i have seen around me of course)

Most of all I have expereinced and watched something called control...that people mascarade as tough love. That one truly amazes me when i see it in others and even more when i see it in myself. It seems to trigger the worst of sickness in myself and others...those on both ends of the "tough love/control dynamics. I recently induldged in some of this, and although it probably did hurt the person i was "helping" what amazed me was the profound sickness that came up in me from induldging in "helping someone see my truth".

This is not aimed at any person ... this post is about what i've been thinking about lately and the recent posts here sorta made me think about it...

Thanks for letting me sort that out on paper.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:26 PM
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For me, tough love meant gaining back the control the things I have the right to control (such as my life and my sanity) and giving up what I do not have the ability to control (another's addiction, their mental disorder).
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
I see alot of things called "tough love" that seem to have very little to do with love or caring or service or help. I don't think love really come in tough or gentle...it's just love same as caring, service or help. (from what i have seen around me of course)

Most of all I have expereinced and watched something called control...that people mascarade as tough love. That one truly amazes me when i see it in others and even more when i see it in myself. It seems to trigger the worst of sickness in myself and others...those on both ends of the "tough love/control dynamics. I recently induldged in some of this, and although it probably did hurt the person i was "helping" what amazed me was the profound sickness that came up in me from induldging in "helping someone see my truth".

This is not aimed at any person ... this post is about what i've been thinking about lately and the recent posts here sorta made me think about it...

Thanks for letting me sort that out on paper.

Really excellent points Ananda. The only other thing I'd add is the word "love" is thrown around too much. I very much doubt most people on the Internet are engaging in tough love (or any love for that matter - I love my family, my dogs, I don't love strangers on the Internets) but control sure does come to mind.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:32 PM
  # 85 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery View Post
Curious reaction, Katie. At the time of your post, there was no mention of illness. Your post did seem a bit grandiose. But then again, I think that goes a long with addiction. As far as tough love, you may not like it. None of us do. However, I seriously question whether or not you really are capable of knowing what is the best thing for you. At this point, I really don't think you do.
LMM, I have read many of your posts and won't defend myself here. I don't know you. You don't know me. My job is to keep peace in this forum and not say what I really think here. It's not good though. I will, however, say in light of the fact you don't know me, please refrain from telling me what you think is in my best interest.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by uglyeyes View Post
AND we are back to that topic! Just so you know Katie, you are more versed in that "other method" than I am. I have never been to a recovery meeting of any sort. I have not aligned myself with any method, save my own. I do think sometimes people just need support and love, and it makes me happy to give it. In your original post, you appeared to be having a good old fashion temper tantrum, and I chose to ignore it.
I also become foul tempered when I am sick, and in a foul temper I prefer coddling. In recovery, I am also a fan of honesty and the occasional kick in the pants when I need it.
And if you know someone well enough to kick them in the pants, I agree. However, this is an INTERNET forum in which no one really knows anyone (or at least not me).
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alera View Post
FYI, tough love is not limited to non-secular programs. It can also be utilized by those who work secular programs. I was exposed to the concept in a fully secular way by a secular author and it nearly saved my life.
How so? I think this is interesting. I am not a fan of "tough love" at all, but am interested in your take. And, in advance, neither my shrink nor therapist would dare to use this approach on me, as they know me and it would backfire, but I am curious as to what you found useful.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:03 PM
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I think anyone, no matter what their persuasion, can appreciate some straight talking and honesty.That's what I try to do

I know myself I'm far from knowing everything and having all the answers. If we knew it all we wouldn't be here.

We're all here to learn and grow and make changes for the better - that doesn't happen in a vaccuum.

I figure if whatever I'm saying is not appreciated for any reason, that's what the ignore button is for

D
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I think anyone, no matter what their persuasion, can appreciate some straight talking and honesty.That's what I try to do

I know myself I'm far from knowing everything and having all the answers. If we knew it all we wouldn't be here.

We're all here to learn and grow and make changes for the better - that doesn't happen in a vaccuum.

I figure if whatever I'm saying is not appreciated for any reason, that's what the ignore button is for

D
And you might be strong and mentally enough balanced to do so. I worry about the other people who are not. The people on the edge who think all this "tough love" is warranted when, IMHO, it's often nothing more than an attempt at control and one-upmanship.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:14 PM
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I think you give me way too much credit Katie LOL.

have a good evening,
D
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I think you give me way too much credit Katie LOL.

have a good evening,
D
No, I don't. LOL. You've been here since April 2007 and are still alive. Like I said, people really need to be careful about throwing around "wisdom" or "tough love" or however one wants to word it (not directed at you at all). I am just speaking in general.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:21 PM
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Oh I agree with your general statement. No argument there.
We're dealing with peoples lives here.

D
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:24 PM
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And if you know someone well enough to kick them in the pants, I agree. However, this is an INTERNET forum in which no one really knows anyone (or at least not me).
We are here for a very specific reason : recovery. All addicts are the same in many ways. In early recovery and later on we all display addict behavior. I think if you could understand and process that you are called out on displaying certain behaviors that lead you straight back to the pit. All of us who truly want recovery will root out our toxic behavior to keep our self in check.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:52 PM
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Addiction pretty much produces the same behaviors in all of us. It affects us in the same way, for the most part. As far as knowing you, I've read your posts and get the gist of how you react. You are right, though, I really don't know you, but I do know alcoholism. It looks the same on all of us as far as I'm concerned.

When I was trying to stop drinking, what I really didn't want to hear I needed to hear the most. I was to wrapped up in my illness to recognize the true meaning of situations or words. When I speak of my experience, that is what it is, my experience, but I do believe that your alcoholism affects you in much the same way as far as fears, emotions and frustrations etc. It takes times and experience to come to certain conclusions. That is in no way meant to be condescending. It is meant to be honest and to offer insight of where many posts are coming from.

As far as your best interest, in light of your emotions, illness, frustrations, alcoholism and anxiety, your own posts alluded to that. I'm not saying this to make you angry. I'm saying it with your best interst in mind.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Oh I agree with your general statement. No argument there.
We're dealing with peoples lives here.

D
Yes, when I referenced your join date and the fact you are still alive, I was acknowledging the seriousness, the fact you are still alive and also peoples' lives, in general.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by splendra View Post
We are here for a very specific reason : recovery. All addicts are the same in many ways. In early recovery and later on we all display addict behavior. I think if you could understand and process that you are called out on displaying certain behaviors that lead you straight back to the pit. All of us who truly want recovery will root out our toxic behavior to keep our self in check.
One simple question. Why doesn't my shrink "call me out?" I mean, he prescribes me Campral, which is for alcohol dependence, etc. He IS a certified board member of the society of American diplomates, or what have you. He IS an MD. He IS a psychiatrist. Yet he has NEVER, EVER, had the presumption to speak to me as most of you do! Can you see why I go mad here? You all have the cheap seats - the "I for never one day in my life have met Katie cheap seats!" Egads, enough already. I am here to talk for support, not for what passes as "tough love!"
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery View Post
Addiction pretty much produces the same behaviors in all of us. It affects us in the same way, for the most part. As far as knowing you, I've read your posts and get the gist of how you react. You are right, though, I really don't know you, but I do know alcoholism. It looks the same on all of us as far as I'm concerned.

When I was trying to stop drinking, what I really didn't want to hear I needed to hear the most. I was to wrapped up in my illness to recognize the true meaning of situations or words. When I speak of my experience, that is what it is, my experience, but I do believe that your alcoholism affects you in much the same way as far as fears, emotions and frustrations etc. It takes times and experience to come to certain conclusions. That is in no way meant to be condescending. It is meant to be honest and to offer insight of where many posts are coming from.

As far as your best interest, in light of your emotions, illness, frustrations, alcoholism and anxiety, your own posts alluded to that. I'm not saying this to make you angry. I'm saying it with your best interst in mind.
You are no MD or shrink, especially after my last post. HOWEVER, you are on ignore.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:19 PM
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I think it would be beneficial if you viewed things from a different perspective, Katie. Are you sure it us in the cheap seats? Maybe it is the reverse. As far as your shrink goes, is he really able to keep you sober? Has your shrink ever overcome addiction? Perhaps we have a different perspective that no MD can have because they have never survived or experienced what we have. Please don't take that as a personal slam to you or your MD, it isn't. I'm just trying to help you understand where we are coming from. If you want to beat your drinking problem, do you truly think you are going to only hear things that sound appealing to you? That you like and can accept? No. It is a process and we hear more than our fair share of what we don't like before things start to make sense.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:21 PM
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You are right, I am no MD or claim to be. I have not given any medical advice, either. Nonetheless, I am now on ignore. I suspect you can slowly work your way through everyone who says something that does not suit you.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery View Post
You are right, I am no MD or claim to be. I have not given any medical advice, either. Nonetheless, I am now on ignore. I suspect you can slowly work your way through everyone who says something that does not suit you.
Look, I will publicly state this. You do me more harm than good. Do not continue to address my posts. If you do, know you are not doing me any favors. Just sent you a PM saying as much, but it did not go through for some reason. Thanks.
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