Class of March 2013 Part 15
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
1day, others have said most of what I think. To add just a note: I think we all have choices we regret. Some are more painful than others. Whenever we come to a fork in the road, we must choose and the sum total of our experiences and biases affect the choice. We never know how the other choice(es) would have come out. We have so very many of these in our lives and we don't think about the ones that have turned out well. With the choices we regret, we don't know if the alternative would have been better or worse -- we will never know that.
Most of us have things we cannot get closure on. Imho, closure is in our own minds rather than external events. So you can focus on your late ex-husband or you can focus on your children and how well they have turned out. Please try not to beat yourself up about those things you cannot change.
Hugs,
Sass
Most of us have things we cannot get closure on. Imho, closure is in our own minds rather than external events. So you can focus on your late ex-husband or you can focus on your children and how well they have turned out. Please try not to beat yourself up about those things you cannot change.
Hugs,
Sass
Marcher
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,235
Good morning Marchers! We all slept in this morning! I need coffee NOW!
1day, I am so sorry you feel badly. I know the feelings you have of what if? I feel that about some choices I've made. My mind turns it over in all directions. I usually end up thinking, the alternative could have been worse. I wonder, but then I tell myself that the other choice would not have worked out in the long run. I just have to make myself believe that. Simple thinking I know, but it works for me. Plus, I have always prayed about decisions and so I trust that I was led the right way, even though I do question it sometimes. Faith. That gets me through. All these little puzzle pieces form a big picture in the end. We just don't see it now. I happen to like sappy cliches!
Everyone, have a good day! Big hugs!
1day, I am so sorry you feel badly. I know the feelings you have of what if? I feel that about some choices I've made. My mind turns it over in all directions. I usually end up thinking, the alternative could have been worse. I wonder, but then I tell myself that the other choice would not have worked out in the long run. I just have to make myself believe that. Simple thinking I know, but it works for me. Plus, I have always prayed about decisions and so I trust that I was led the right way, even though I do question it sometimes. Faith. That gets me through. All these little puzzle pieces form a big picture in the end. We just don't see it now. I happen to like sappy cliches!
Everyone, have a good day! Big hugs!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,420
Shoes, Toots, Sass, and Joy,
I have been moved to tears by all of your responses to my post. For some reason, I have difficulty putting my feelings into words.. but I will try.
Shoes: I had forgotten about Grace... I have a book somewhere that was given to me the first time I was in recovery.. Grace and Addiction, I believe... I will find that book and re-read it... I think you are on to something here... very relevant to what I am feeling.... many thanks for that reply
Toots: your post resonated so deeply, so many feelings that you wrote about are familiar to me.... your ability to write is so helpful to me... you give words to feelings and thoughts that I find hard to verbalize at times....
Sass: You are right... how many times i have counseled others that they do not need the blessing or permission from the other person to get closure on a relationship to move on, yet now I understand their struggles so much more clearly;
Joy: You talked about Faith.. if I have Faith that I did the right thing, and that it will all come together, like you said, into a puzzle where the pieces fit seamlessly,...I can feel better about my choices.
Someone mentioned talking to my children about the choice I made to leave Seattle, and when my older son was here from Ohio, we did talk about that move... He was so angry, because he loved his school, and had a lot of independence for being in middle school, and he was able to talk about it and said that even now, he applies for jobs in Seattle, because of the happy memories. That is what I think started my reflection on this subject.
Of course, I distracted myself quickly with my work. Now, I see that this time off, with nothing to distract me, other than walking and chores, has left me with myself and my thoughts. I see why keeping busy is an addiction in its own right... I can avoid feeling and thinking about certain subjects.
My daughter was here to visit for the day on Wednesday, and I had found some albums of hers, and gave to her. Of course as we reviewed the albums together, we came across pictures of her in Seattle, and then some papers she had written once she had moved to Colorado. It was scary... her papers were stories with some darkness to them, one was about a murder. She also told me how angry she was to leave... she had just made the cheerleading squad with her best friend, and she said she still feels sad about that missed opportunity. She also expresses wishes to move back, but is doubtful of that due to her circumstances.
They forgive me and have a good perspective now that they are adults, but I still have pangs of guilt.
All of this is hard to face while being clean, but I think it would be 10 times worse if I did not have my Marchers.... you are all such blessings in my life.
I am sure I will use some time this week-end to journal and write and perhaps get to some resolution on this issue.
I have been moved to tears by all of your responses to my post. For some reason, I have difficulty putting my feelings into words.. but I will try.
Shoes: I had forgotten about Grace... I have a book somewhere that was given to me the first time I was in recovery.. Grace and Addiction, I believe... I will find that book and re-read it... I think you are on to something here... very relevant to what I am feeling.... many thanks for that reply
Toots: your post resonated so deeply, so many feelings that you wrote about are familiar to me.... your ability to write is so helpful to me... you give words to feelings and thoughts that I find hard to verbalize at times....
Sass: You are right... how many times i have counseled others that they do not need the blessing or permission from the other person to get closure on a relationship to move on, yet now I understand their struggles so much more clearly;
Joy: You talked about Faith.. if I have Faith that I did the right thing, and that it will all come together, like you said, into a puzzle where the pieces fit seamlessly,...I can feel better about my choices.
Someone mentioned talking to my children about the choice I made to leave Seattle, and when my older son was here from Ohio, we did talk about that move... He was so angry, because he loved his school, and had a lot of independence for being in middle school, and he was able to talk about it and said that even now, he applies for jobs in Seattle, because of the happy memories. That is what I think started my reflection on this subject.
Of course, I distracted myself quickly with my work. Now, I see that this time off, with nothing to distract me, other than walking and chores, has left me with myself and my thoughts. I see why keeping busy is an addiction in its own right... I can avoid feeling and thinking about certain subjects.
My daughter was here to visit for the day on Wednesday, and I had found some albums of hers, and gave to her. Of course as we reviewed the albums together, we came across pictures of her in Seattle, and then some papers she had written once she had moved to Colorado. It was scary... her papers were stories with some darkness to them, one was about a murder. She also told me how angry she was to leave... she had just made the cheerleading squad with her best friend, and she said she still feels sad about that missed opportunity. She also expresses wishes to move back, but is doubtful of that due to her circumstances.
They forgive me and have a good perspective now that they are adults, but I still have pangs of guilt.
All of this is hard to face while being clean, but I think it would be 10 times worse if I did not have my Marchers.... you are all such blessings in my life.
I am sure I will use some time this week-end to journal and write and perhaps get to some resolution on this issue.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
1day, I believe it's a blessing that your son and daughter felt safe in sharing their feelings about the move with you! If they blamed you, they wouldn't feel the same way. So now it sounds like time to forgive yourself.
Let me share something that happened to me. I was brutally assaulted when I was under 5 years old by a close friend of my father's. When I finally told my parents about it many, many years later, my mother showed and expressed no surprise and told me some things about the perp that helped to explain a great deal. He was obviously very sick. But my father's response was truly hurtful to me. He said that he wouldn't believe it or listen to it because his friend was dead and couldn't "defend himself". For many years I couldn't understand my father being so insensitive and couldn't forgive him. My father passed away some years ago and that was still unresolved. But even if he were still alive, it still wouldn't be resolved! That was wishful thinking on my part.
I finally realized that it was likely that my father was unable to deal with his own feelings because it might not have happened if my father hadn't insisted on moving the whole family. He could not have foreseen what happened. And I finally let go of the anger against my father. It was harming only me by that point. That was a resolution without the other person being there.
Hugs
Let me share something that happened to me. I was brutally assaulted when I was under 5 years old by a close friend of my father's. When I finally told my parents about it many, many years later, my mother showed and expressed no surprise and told me some things about the perp that helped to explain a great deal. He was obviously very sick. But my father's response was truly hurtful to me. He said that he wouldn't believe it or listen to it because his friend was dead and couldn't "defend himself". For many years I couldn't understand my father being so insensitive and couldn't forgive him. My father passed away some years ago and that was still unresolved. But even if he were still alive, it still wouldn't be resolved! That was wishful thinking on my part.
I finally realized that it was likely that my father was unable to deal with his own feelings because it might not have happened if my father hadn't insisted on moving the whole family. He could not have foreseen what happened. And I finally let go of the anger against my father. It was harming only me by that point. That was a resolution without the other person being there.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,420
Thank you, Sass
I feel honored that you would share a traumatic event from your childhood.
It sounds like your father went right into denial because it was just too painful and overwhelming for him to deal with. It sure sounds like you did your "work" around this issue, and that you are at peace. You did not need his support or acceptance of this assault to find closure and serenity.
You are very wise, and I might have said that before.
There is a lot of wisdom, empathy, and intelligence among us Marchers.
Sass, when you wrote about you may have become a professor, I want to let you know that your writing reflects a lot of knowledge and skill... I don't know what you do now, but I hope you get to put your gifts to use.
On the lighter side, just an fyi: during the week, I usually drink tea. Today, I made a pot of coffee and I am able to write so much due to my caffeine buzz.
I am such an addict!
It sounds like your father went right into denial because it was just too painful and overwhelming for him to deal with. It sure sounds like you did your "work" around this issue, and that you are at peace. You did not need his support or acceptance of this assault to find closure and serenity.
You are very wise, and I might have said that before.
There is a lot of wisdom, empathy, and intelligence among us Marchers.
Sass, when you wrote about you may have become a professor, I want to let you know that your writing reflects a lot of knowledge and skill... I don't know what you do now, but I hope you get to put your gifts to use.
On the lighter side, just an fyi: during the week, I usually drink tea. Today, I made a pot of coffee and I am able to write so much due to my caffeine buzz.
I am such an addict!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
There are positive addictions, too, lol! For example, I'm addicted to reading books. I think we just need to choose our addictions wisely :-)
Thanks for your kind words, 1 day! I am who I am, not "in spite of" my experiences but because of them, both good and bad. My life hasn't been what I planned but how many people can say that theirs is? Perhaps mine is better than the other alternatives. I only know that this is the one I have. No, it's not perfect but I don't think that's possible. I'm happy and reasonably content :-)
S
Thanks for your kind words, 1 day! I am who I am, not "in spite of" my experiences but because of them, both good and bad. My life hasn't been what I planned but how many people can say that theirs is? Perhaps mine is better than the other alternatives. I only know that this is the one I have. No, it's not perfect but I don't think that's possible. I'm happy and reasonably content :-)
S
Living and Loving Life at Last
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: gods own country
Posts: 12,171
I am reading and touching base. Just need to feel you lot around, mum is making Irish coffees, something we have always enjoyed together, ditto the wine she had for dinner, normally we would share a bottle tonight she had a glass. I don't want to want it, and I definitely won't be having one, but it would have been very nice to have a drink with mum today!
Sass, sorry for what you went through as a child, your father was obviously in denial through avoidance of guilt. I never went through such a traumatic event, but my childhood was scarred by my fathers psychological bullying. This is one of the reasons I have always drunk here on visits, to help numb the hurt so I can be civil. He refuses to acknowledge his actions, choosing to allocate his frequent absences to his feelings of guilt rather than confront the truth. It is so hard for me to be around him, knowing how much he hurt me, knowing he would deny it if confronted ( I have tried ) and pretend all is happy in the family for my mums sake. God forbid but if anything happened to her, I would feel no need to see him ever again.
Once more not the fray dear friends! Xx
Sass, sorry for what you went through as a child, your father was obviously in denial through avoidance of guilt. I never went through such a traumatic event, but my childhood was scarred by my fathers psychological bullying. This is one of the reasons I have always drunk here on visits, to help numb the hurt so I can be civil. He refuses to acknowledge his actions, choosing to allocate his frequent absences to his feelings of guilt rather than confront the truth. It is so hard for me to be around him, knowing how much he hurt me, knowing he would deny it if confronted ( I have tried ) and pretend all is happy in the family for my mums sake. God forbid but if anything happened to her, I would feel no need to see him ever again.
Once more not the fray dear friends! Xx
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
Toots, sorry about the issues with your dad! It never ceases to surprise me how many of us had issues with parents. When I went to my recent high school reunion,I was amazed to hear other people's stories about their feelings and issues about their parents. It's a sad thing that the very people who were supposed to nurture us so often didn't. But then, we aren't perfect parents either and I can only hope that my offspring think of me more kindly than that.
S
S
Living and Loving Life at Last
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: gods own country
Posts: 12,171
I think the difference is Sass whether the parent inadvertently hurts the child, or deliberately and calculatingly hurts them. Hurting our kids by the mistakes we make as parents is something a child can an ought to forgive, and as parents we are never beyond being able to apologise to our children for those mistakes. As a step mom to be to my grown up girl, I made several mistakes in our fledgling relationship, which I have since apologised for. As I have been a steadfast in my love and support for her ever since she now knows that she can trust me with her emotions, but it took a long time to win that trust. No one tells us how to be good parents so we do get things wrong, but those parents who psychologically or physically abuse their children because of something lacking in their own make up are unforgivable.
I remind myself that my father has no further power over me, he is a weak old man who cannot hurt me any more. And the person I am is the person I chose to be.
I remind myself that my father has no further power over me, he is a weak old man who cannot hurt me any more. And the person I am is the person I chose to be.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
Toots, know that I'm thinking of you during your stressful weekend. I'm glad you can check in here. I know you will be ok; I also know that we can all sometimes use a friendly arm around the shoulders or a group hug or space to vent no matter how ok we are. I'm heading for lights out shortly but you'll have our friends in Oz to keep you company so I know you'll be ok.
Hugs,
Sass
Hugs,
Sass
Marcher
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,235
I'm climbing into the circle now too. I'll be here for a bit.
All I can add is that I love you guys and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers tonight. I'm honored to be a Marcher with you all.
Big Hugs!
All I can add is that I love you guys and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers tonight. I'm honored to be a Marcher with you all.
Big Hugs!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,997
I don't have any children so I don't know how that feels to have regrets about children being hurt with decisions or mistakes.
I do know what it feels like to be the child who didn't have perfect parents who made mistakes. I never for a moment loved them less. Might have been angry about a few things but I never stopped loving them.
You did the best you could at the time you did it. That's all anyone can do. All you Moms and Mums deserve angel wings. Really. You have the toughest job in the world and it didn't come with instructions.
xoxo
I do know what it feels like to be the child who didn't have perfect parents who made mistakes. I never for a moment loved them less. Might have been angry about a few things but I never stopped loving them.
You did the best you could at the time you did it. That's all anyone can do. All you Moms and Mums deserve angel wings. Really. You have the toughest job in the world and it didn't come with instructions.
xoxo
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