TheBob1

Indeed... but I am wanting to find a way, regardless of how I get my cake. Still searching for that elusive practical solution. I'm perfectly okay making the decision and taking action, its just that I haven't found the right "way" for me and my situation.

May take a few days to reconcile after the recent blow-up - and I will admit being the one who needs to chill more than her - but need to move forward to the rehab she has admitted needing. She does this crap (occasional blowups/fits) in the last couple or so years (don't remember them happening before +/- 2 years ago and was blaming it on stress of lower limb surgeries and signs of menopause)... and acts like nothing happened the next day - and this isn't about memory or drunkenness, she just moves on like nothing ever was said or happened. It is quite odd how she can pretend like an atom bomb wasn't just dropped in her living room. Honestly can't recall if she has always acted like nothing happened when something did. Unlike me, she likes to start each day anew, but that only works well when the one "starting anew" is the perpetrator - and why not!?! Who wants to be found guilty after a crime, so to speak?

amy55

I don't know if you can resonate with this. I first started to google, how can someone just fall asleep after a big fight. I don't know, my nerves were shot, and I was trying to figure out how he could fall asleep withing 5 minutes, while I couldn't sleep the whole night. Well googling just led me to abuse websites.

I did join an abuse website, but I didn't feel that I fit there. I was actually too embarrassed to post on it, so I stopped.

I had asked my ex how could he just fall asleep after big fights. He told me that every day was a new day. He would wake up and it was like nothing happened.

He told me many things, because he thought it was normal, and that I wasn't. He told me that when you fight, the other person is the enemy and you can do and say anything you want, because they are your enemy. That you can tear them down as much as possible, then you have sex and make up.

If you are hearing these things, or feeling these things, I can tell you a lot more.

((((((((hugs)))))))

I think you are terrific. You are in a hard place right now, but you got family here.

amy

TheBob1

Thanks for sharing this Amy. If it is any consolation, in a previous relationship and when I was only 20 or 21 years of age, I would fall asleep immediately if not even after a very long and intensive argument. I can't explain why other than shear exhaustion.

I can't agree it is "okay" to do or say anything during a fight or that all sins are absolved the next day, but I do relate to FEELING that way in the heat of the moment. But internal feelings and reality do not always match up, especially when passion (positive or negative) is involved.

Anyhow, thanks for "popping in" and the warm and welcoming wishes.

TheBob1

I like this, I do... But the one problem is that in doing this, I am "abandoning" my son - leaving him on the crazy train and hoping he doesn't enjoy the ride. (Remember, her latest and escalated tactic/folly/whatever is doing this crap in front of our son where she feels confident I will back down and just "take the abuse" in order not to make too big a scene - one of the oldest tactics in the "Manipulator's Guide to the World" - like being the loudest person in the company of soft-spoken or more reserved people - that kind of thing).

The freedom and almost boundless power and energy I felt when I left the relationship that took up the first half of my adult life (to date) comes to mind when I see divorced parents "rediscovering themselves", but the difficulties I see their kids enduring negates any potentially joyous feeling of liberation/relief/freedom from the problem that splitting up might initially induce. Its a tightrope here - a balancing act. Things are marginally acceptable a lot of the time and then there are the dips.

I need to decide when the dips have become so prominent and so much the norm that sitting this out another day/week/month no longer makes sense. The recent birthday - the beginning of my sons second year of "teenhood" - indicates how quickly time is running out.

And so I stay, still hoping - maybe unrealistically - to find a solution.

jjj111

Bob, I'm not sure how walking away from a fight with your wife constitutes abandoning your son? I'm not talking about divorcing her, because you've made it clear you don't see that as an option right now, I'm talking about leaving the room. I don't think your son benefits in any way from seeing you argue back, or from all the attention you put on which of her BS he may or may not believe. You are letting her use your son to bait you into fights and make him a pawn in the fights, which seem to be focused on which one of his parents can get him on their side. I have a feeling he resents being put in the middle and would prefer that you stop fighting. I am just speaking here as an adult child of alcoholics who spent much of my childhood watching my parents fight. I really didn't give a sh*t about who was right or wrong, I just wished they'd stop already.

Refiner

What jjj said. If you walk away you remove the fuel to her fire. I would set that boundary immediately and not even wait for her to drop the next atom bomb. Would be best while she's sober and NOT in the attack mode, actually.

SeriousKarma

A question has been floating around in my head for a few days now, Bob, that I think could help you to move forward.

Who actually starts these arguments? Does your wife, perhaps sincerely, think it's you? Is it possible that you speak to your wife in a condescending way, and that she feels she's defending herself against your "tone"?

TheBob1

Who "starts" them is probably a matter of opinion, considering that the WHEN an exchange becomes a fight or disagreement is not always clear. I mean, naturally, we would both say the other started it more times than not.

I'll make one observation here: There is a pattern she sometimes follows in which she will make the first jab, and when I respond ("engage", if you prefer), I get called out for being aggressive.

There was a family that came into our lives via our son (a friend at school) who is no longer welcome in our home - - yes, it got that bad and one night, guess what was involved - lots of alcohol. The entire lot - especially the Mom and my son's pal, had this routine they played regularly: Start something with a clear provocation, then cry foul when someone responds/engages. Metaphorically speaking, they would poke someone in the chest or spit in their eye and then yell "abuse!" when the one they provoked pushes back, even if to simply get away. There must be a name for this crap, but I just call it crap - pulling people into a drama to get some twisted satisfaction or a feeling of being part of something important - a cry for attention maybe??

Tonight we had an "almost-fight" over nothing she turned into something. I asked her in a very casual, relaxed way - off the cuff - if she would look into getting a simple, small part for something in the home the next time she was at a store she frequents nearby. She "went off" on me, saying I "throw **** at her like this all the time". Hey, woah, what the..... Ummm, okay - I just asked if you could look into it while next door to the place that sells these things. You would think I asked her to change the oil in my car by hand while arranging for a dinner with the President. I mean, what was THAT???!!!~

She responds to all kinds of things - many of which DO NOT EXIST, including condescension (not to say it never comes from me, but if it does, I don't complain that she is responding negatively to it - I would expect that). More times than not, she will twist my words to fit what she THOUGHT I was thinking or going to say without HEARING what I said. "It was the way you looked", I often hear. (Me: "OMG, I was just sitting here with a blank stare!!!").

If it hasn't become apparent here, I'm not one who keeps up with this kind of game play, so clearly it is all new to me. I am naive to a fault, I suppose, and this probably sounds corny and contrived, but I really do just try to shoot straight and be honest day to day. If I ever hide my real feelings, its shyness or privacy, not ulterior motives. My wife, on the other hand, "plays" and I get played a lot, only to see it after its too late. I guess I am a slow learner - - I like to think it is that I am too trusting of those I should, well... TRUST. If I am provoked, I generally take the bait unintentionally and satisfy the provocateur's apparent need for conflict.
Not engaging is fairly new to me.

Okay, have I lost every person here due to massively excessive wordiness? Sorry....

TheBob1

SeriousKarma, you took a couple phrases I wrote individually and applied them out of context as the premise for these questions. They were referring to one specific situation that I believe I noted as having been an exception.

Does she FEEL she is defending herself against my tone? Every minute I am breathing, yes. Am I speaking to her in a condescending way that usually results in an argument, no. Of course if you ask her, completely blank facial expressions are often perceived as ugly and negative gestures and, depending upon her mood, anything I say can be construed as having been in a negative tone, so it seems the answer depends upon who you ask and/or who you choose to believe.

suki44883

Not engaging will get easier the more you practice it. Addicts are very adept at creating chaos and it's pretty natural to feel the need to respond. It would really help you if you attended al-anon meetings on a regular basis. That is where you will learn detachment and how not to be drawn into the drama.

TheBob1

Are you suggesting I know when she has or has not been drinking?

For the record, oftentimes I am not - unless it is after 5 or 6pm when I can just assume she has started. As for other times, all bets are off.

suki44883

From what you have posted, I think it would be safe to assume she has been drinking whenever she starts provoking an argument. Even if she hasn't, it's never a bad idea to just walk away from it.

TheBob1

Something worth re-posting at this time - a quote from someone a couple days back:

"There is no power to be had in trying to reason with the unreasonable, trying to defend yourself against exaggerations, lies and untruths, or trying to find solution and compromise with someone whose underlying motive is SOLELY protecting their right to drink. There is no winning and no upper hand outside of making a happy life for ourselves in this kind of difficult situation."

(Kudos to "Firebolt")

TheBob1

When I had a child and came to the realization I would give my life for this new little human in the world who is no only son, my only child in fact, I did not understand the extent to which I would give (or give up) my life. If not for desperately trying to maintain a family and a safe and stable home for this growing human, the issues discussed herein would be moot, as I would be miles from the person who makes my home a place not to seek peace and tranquility from the harsh world outside, but a place from which I feel a need to escape.

So a cancer has invaded my home the way a disease invades a body, and I feel a responsibility to eradicate that illness. Much work to do.

I thank God for the support and guidance I find in this place online, without which I would not have the wherewithal to take on this ever-so-longstanding problem, a place without which I may not have even come to fully recognize (diagnose?) its existence and all its symptoms...

dandylion

Oh, yes...Bob....firebolt is very articulate (as usual) in explaining one of the basic "rules" in dealing with an alcoholic--- Rule No. !---It is a waste of your time to talk to a drunk.

The "pattern" that you describe, above is one that is an almost universally common one of deflection......a manipulation or maneuver to keep the spotlight off of them and onto someone else (you).
This serves several valuable purposes for the perpetrator......
It makes You the "problem".......
It keeps you off-balance because it is very confusing ......
It often gives them a justification to continue to drink.......
etc........

All this comes as an unwelcome surprise to that partner who tries, valiantly, to use the rules of human relationships that they learned growing up (normal rules) on a dysfunctional relationship.
Addiction turns all the usual rules topsy-turvey.....WHO KNEW?

I, again, beg you to go to the thread "QUACKERS" and read for your entertainment as well as your edification.!!!!!
Honestly, it will amaze you....
A lot of what your wife is doing probably falls under the heading of QUACKING.
It is time that y ou became acquainted.....LOL!LOL!!
(there will be a pop quiz later, this week)

dandylion

TheBob1

Yes, many "tactics" I have, until recent years, been completely unaware of, and yes, the application of generally accepted rules of communication and basic common sense get thrown out the window.

"WHO KNEW?" indeed.

I now have a strong urge to go read about "quackers"

dandylion

LOL! When I first discovered "Quackers", reading it was a quilty pleasure for me for a while.......
I think the theater term for this would be "black comedy".....

dandylion

TheBob1

Indeed it is - makes friends and loved ones of A's, or even RA's laugh, but then shake our heads. An AA just wouldn't get it.

Kinda like my wife not getting it when I laugh at John Hefron (comic) when he starts a story with something like, "I drove to the show today... Brought my wife along for the ride, because... well, how else would I have known which lane to pick on the way here?"...

Yeah, well, alcoholism is just a tad more serious though, huh?

firebolt

Haha - reading the QUACKERS thread is the reason I signed up for an actual account here. I couldn't even relate to a lot of them at the time (ABF's alcoholism hadn't progressed that much yet / I was too naive to recognize quacking at the time) but they were so hilarious / sad I had to be a part of this site, even though I just felt that ABF drank more than I thought he should.

Bob - please do read them. Aside from laughing and crying through them (therapy in itself,) it gave me some sympathy for how truly sick they are. Plus, it made me be able to recognize quacking. My ABF is very difficult to tell when he's drunk and until the creepy reptilian look comes on, he seems just fine.

LexieCat

Uh, no, they do. Once we are sober, it is absolutely something we "get" and we laugh about that kind of ridiculousness in our (former) selves pretty readily.