theuncertainty

I think we're getting a bit sidetracked.

But I also think a really central point may have been over looked. Some one else is calling XVG to come get her. (Right?) Who ever is calling can just as easily call a taxi for her or call community patrol. I'm not sure if every city has one of those. Where I live, it's a city patrol that picks up people 'incapacitated by alcohol' in public places, takes them into protective custody and to a sleep-off center. Not the coolest thing, but then IMO neither is public intoxication.

My number is still in XAH's phone - I know this, because the stupid sh-t keeps texting me 'accidentally' the little love notes he means to send to his GF. If some one were to call me and say XAH is here drunk and keeps saying your name 1. I'd run because well, that just can't be good, and 2. I'd say sorry, I am not involved with him any more. I will not come get him.

My situation is different than yours, XVG. If she is still kind of a friend, one approach may be to tell her, when she's sober (because if she's like XAH, she won't remember it if she's drunk) "I can't help with this any more." It really is more about what feels right for you, XVG. If you feel you should tell her "I'm done picking you up." then it's the right thing for you to do; do it once - for yourself. And if it keeps happening, well, take what ever steps you need to take to enforce your boundary.

Learn2Live

Kilt, I understand your feelings about this and thank you for posting them. I have lived my entire life surrounded by alcoholics and drug addicts, not to mention some seriously mentally disturbed people. I in fact have been pretty mentally disturbed myself too on occasion over the years, am a recovering alcoholic, and am what appears to be an incurable, severe codependent. Yes I'm harsh when it comes to this topic. If you knew everything I have suffered as a result of someone else's drinking and/or drugging, which is way too much to list here, you would understand a little better. But, in a nutshell, here is what I believe. I am not a psychiatrist, a drug or alcohol counselor, a clergyperson, a social worker, a physician, a taxi cab driver, a suicide hotline, an ATM machine, a bank, a mother of a small child, a maid, a cook, a housekeeper, an employer, an outpatient therapy clinic, a police officer, a judge, a probation officer, a loan company, a rich aunt or uncle, or a person who likes to be called at all hours of the night because someone who chooses to get $hitfaced drunk and or high feels like calling me for whatever obscene or ridiculous reason their drunk a$$ can think up. I am sorry if my maintaining peace or serenity in my own life does not agree with the purpose you believe I should serve on this earth. But frankly every single adult on earth is responsible for getting his or herself the help they need from the appropriate source. I am not it and I don't recommend anyone else be it either.

Learn2Live

PS Dear XVG, if you want to help this woman, my recommendation is to get a 3x5 card and write the A.A. phone number on it. Give it to her and tell her to keep it in her wallet and that when she decides to save herself, to call that number. Then turn around and walk away. (((hugs))) all.

kilt

l2l, I am sorry that you have had a tough life. It sounds like you have had it really bad and I am very proud of you for seeking help and offering advice (within this forum) to others.

Ultimately we are all going to have different views on this subject. I feel that friends help friends. I agree that she needs help. What is that quote "Give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach a man a fish he eats for life.". In this case, I don't see why telling her about the resources available and explaining just what he will and will not do for her, is so wild and crazy. In this case, a drunk ride is a fish for a day. A list of resources and maybe a joint trip to an AA meeting is fish for life.

I think this guy has been pretty wonderful and I want him to close out this situation on a high note.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Learn2Live

Thanks Kilt. Stick around, keep reading, and you will see that my "tough life" is NOTHING compared to the folks who come on this board and share their stories of giving, helping, feeding and much, much worse, day after day after day.

kilt

SJ, It seems very simple to me that you do not change the rules of a friendship (they are friends. exes can be friends) without letting people know. If it bothers you, I have as much street cred, unfortunately, to post here as you.

I agree that she should experience consequences. This guy is not a d**k and I would like to think that since he has decided to put a stop to his generous driving services that he will have the kindness to let her know ahead of time.

bookwyrm

I know this is veering off topic but...when I talked to XAH about my intentions/boundaries, it just gave him an opening to persuade/guilt/manipulate/argue/blame/etc. Talking to an active alcoholic about this stuff, in my experience, was a waste of my time and caused a lot more trouble than it was worth.

I guess my main issues with kilt's posts is the implicit 'should's in it. It reminds me too much of XAH. 'Friends help friends' is just another way of being guilted into keeping up the codie dance. I divorced XAH even though he told me I should support him in this since I was his wife - alcoholism is a disease and I 'owed' him to stick around while he thought about quitting...

Cyranoak

Agreed Bookwyrm. Kilt is, as he or she said, entitled to his/her opinions, but they are coming off as passive aggressively controlling and sanctimonious in his posts. My sponsor once told me not to should on other people, not to should on myself, and to not let others should on me. Kilt is doing a lot of shoulding here.

My 2 cents. Nothing personal.

Cyranoak

kilt

Um, and all the other people giving advice are not "shoulding" by their suggestions? We are talking about unspoken social rules. Someone elsewhere did a good job of explaining these unspoken boundaries, such as not eating food off another person's plate or standing a foot from a strangers face, or picking your nose in public.. I am simply pointing out a known unspoken social rule. "You don't bail on friends without explanation."

I know we all come to SR with alot of personal issues in tow, but it is pretty clear that alot of these responses are based on individual (emotionally charged) experiences. The girl is not here to defend herself or present her side of this situation. People have implied here some very nasty things about the girl base on their personal experiences dealing with drunks.

I am always going to let people know where they stand with me.

xvg

The thing is, I don't have to deal with any of that. She's a nice girl and has never tried to guilt me or blame me. She is really hard on herself but it's not a show done for my sake. She understands what's up and takes responsibility. It's just a btch of a monster on her back.

I'm going to give her a resource to call and let her know that I cannot do this. I've now skipped out on picking her up twice and she ended up being OK. I just do not want to see her freeze to death or get picked up by some sicko.

Learn2Live

Xvg, the world can be a horrible place, yes. But this girl chooses to make herself vulnerable. And when she or her friends involve you, you worry. Which in turn causes you to try to control the possible outcomes of HER behavior. THAT is codependence. I am glad that you have decided to cut her off and IMO it is the healthiest choice. But you may want to investigate yourself and the role you have played in this scenario a little further. Couldn't hurt

Learn2Live

Kilt, you have hijacked this thread and that is not cool. If you have a problem with someone's post you are free to click on the triangle with the exclamation mark in it and alert one of the moderators. Otherwise, it would be more polite for you to start a new thread of your own. Thanks.

xvg

Can you explain more please?

I never had it in my mind to be a superhero or anything like that. Just trying to do what's right. No clear path has presented itself, but I'm trying to take the one that causes the least long term damage. In this case, I think we all agree that it means to not enable her by bailing her out.

At the same time, I have to agree with Kilt on the letting her know part. I am going to leave her alone for now, but if she contacts me, I will tell her what I've been thinking. She's not a raging psychopath and is 100% coherent and logical 9 days out of 10. So I feel like this way forward is the best of both worlds.

But I am new to all this and willing to hear other viewpoints from those of you who are much more experienced.

Learn2Live

Well, for me, my codependency started out small. Little things like you describe; someone I care about being a nuisance. Or bothering me every week or so. Like when a friend came to me and wanted to borrow a relatively large sum of money because he was in danger of getting his legs broken if he did not come up with the cash. So I loaned it to him. Or the friend who got an apartment but complained all the time about this or that, and I went out of my way to buy things for the apartment for him. Or the 3am drunken phone calls I used to get (and take) from a close family member. In and of themselves they don't sound significant. But over time what I found was that none of this had anything to do with THEM. I am a magnet for these kinds of people, because that is the role I choose to play. And the codependency grew, and the being a doormat for others got worse, until I was so deeply involved with these kind of people, I had become a caretaker. You can read about it in nearly every thread on this board.

I am not saying you are codependent. Only you can decide whether or not you are. But consider for a moment that you are on a Recovery website for friends and family of alcoholics, describing how someone else's alcoholic behavior is affecting you. You may want to consider asking yourself if there is alcoholism in your family? Is this the first time you have felt it necessary to take care of a full-grown adult? Has anything like this occurred in your life before?

Because the focus is usually on the other person to such an extent that we can't see ourselves. I learned a lot about myself by going to AlAnon and reading Codependent No More.

Look within, that's all I'm saying. And yes, I agree that it is the healthier choice to communicate your boubdaries to others. But remember, feeling sorry for or responsible for other grown adults truly does them a disservice. People have to learn how to stand on their own two feet.

Buffalo66

HI. Wow. What a thread.
I do feel that you are kindhearted, and even if she owns her btch of a monster on her back, and even if she knows what is up, it is not your work to bail her out of her messes.

I do not feel that it is any friends responsibility, at the level of friendship described here, to explain why you are walking away. She is an adult, she knows why. You said so already.

Having said that, you said you would and I see no problem with you giving her some numbers, telling her you dont want the drama, and you are bowing out.

this is detached love, and it is caring. But then stop.

Kilt, it seems like you may be a recovering or active addict. I dont know that to be sure, but it seems that way. I wonder if you are someone who has been "bailed" on, or thats how you saw it. Or maybe you have a loved one that you keep "bailing out"...Either way, clearly this is an unhealed dynamic for you, or you would not have so much to say about it.

We have all learned, to varying degrees, what it means to preserve our own sanity, its why we are here on SR.

I think you could stand to look at why the responses here, from Sailor John, and L2L, and others jab you so much. You may find yourself actually having some boundary issues.

thanks for the thread.