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Old 06-23-2018, 03:07 PM
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I think Astro hit the nail on the head there.

As Daughters and Sons we kind of need our parents to be, parents. Yes, parents will sometimes need to rely on us (and I have been through that) but that shift from being taken care of to being the one looking out for the parent, I think, can be really hard for children.

It sounds like your Son might be struggling with this a bit. Now, we could say well he should man up and help out or come by etc, but he's struggling, just like you are (of course not to the same degree), however he sounds a bit lost. It would be the same as him saying to you, just get your act together and get out of the house.

It's easy to say to someone but when you look at where they are coming from, not so easy at all?

Anyway, that's kind of how I see this from what you have said.

Also, the after Thanksgiving visit. With everyone struggling along, they make an effort to visit and then it turns in to a negative thing, again, they may think well what CAN I do right?

So yes, it gets a bit complicated!

Interesting what you say about that well worn circle you are in. I was just reading a post by someone in F&F who described that circle of Husband saying he would stop drinking, her hoping then him letting her down and she ends up in a circle of sadness, anger etc, never having time to heal from that as the circle continues.

If you think of that circle as say a dirt path you walk which is well worn, the only way out is by making a detour. Doesn't have to be a cross country march, just a deviation from that circle. As you deviate from it you are healing yourself and making that circle look much less appealing.

Does any of that ring true?

You can do this, you have made tremendous progress over the past few weeks, it's huge and I hope you keep making those little deviations.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Astro View Post
My experience with my own children is that I have to be a strong leader and a positive force in their lives to maintain and keep my relationship with them solid. I am always vigilant about my program of recovery, service work, and spirituality. They see me "doing the deal" and they want me in their life. For the past 13 years this is how I've been a father, a husband, and I've added stepfather and grandfather to my roles too as a result of this. I think we need to be shining examples to our families. It takes some work, but other men were role models to me too in my recovery so I knew it was possible.
It's not always possible to be a strong leader especially when dealing with severe mental illness. If a person has cancer or something they get respect but there is no respect for someone with mental illness. This has been proven to me. I was always a good person but now I have finally succumbed to mental illness. I fought a life long battle with mental illness and now I am ostracized because of it. At this time it is not possible for me to be a positive motivating person. And that doesn't make me a bad person, but just a person who needs some understanding and support.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:43 PM
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I was always the good parent and always did my best to be a good influence on my son. I sometimes made the mistake of trying to be a friend. If I were dealing with any other illness things would be different.

I know my son very well. He's not struggling so much as he doesn't care. On Thanksgiving and other holidays how come I don't get the same equal respect as everyone else? I can't get a phone call saying happy birthday or happy fathers day. I think a good parent deserves that.

That's an interesting analogy about the circle. I agree that deviating does make that circle smaller. I've been making detours from my circle. They are just small detours at this time. I have to start somewhere and these detours might turn into a cross country trek.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by daveycrockett View Post
That's an interesting analogy about the circle. I agree that deviating does make that circle smaller. I've been making detours from my circle. They are just small detours at this time. I have to start somewhere and these detours might turn into a cross country trek.
Yes small steps perhaps but huge at the same time!

Yes, mental is still so little understood by the public and has been so hushed up and derided for so long it will probably be a while before people begin to understand, but it's getting there.

It's that broken leg example (again). If you have a broken leg people can see it they know what to do, you get a cast, people sign it and voila in a few weeks you are good as new. With mental illness I think it's somewhat of a mystery to some people. If they have never experienced it they have no comprehension of it. And I guess why would they?

The resentments toward your family - that's a tough one, I get what you are saying but in order for you to heal is there some way you can work through that. Not for them, for you.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:43 AM
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I agree that it may not be possible, or easy, to be a strong leader. But you're taking steps and making progress. Your son and other people in your life will have to take their own steps too, and it will be on their time scale, maybe not yours.

My children were 7 & 9 when they watched me go off to a mental hospital. When I returned their mom divorced me and I moved into a small apartment. I stayed sober through this with the help of AA and finding God, my kids went to meetings with me and helped with service work for many years. They have watched me fight depression and anxiety, and been with me when I remarried and rebuilt my life. When my son went to college, he rarely communicated with me, I think it was his way of saying that he wanted to learn how to live his own life, and while it hurt I've come to respect that. The reward is that he lives two hours away and has an incredible job and a life that he loves. My daughter is in college now and while she will always be my little girl, she is creating her own life too. They both love it when I come to visit them, we have very special times when we are able to get together.

Pretty much every day for me is jaw-dropping awe of the life we can receive if we're willing to put the work into it, and the results we get are directly related to how much effort we place on our recovery.

I know you're discouraged at times, and I know this is hard, but please don't ever give up. I truly believe that there's a great life ahead of you if you're determined to see this through.
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by daveycrockett View Post
I know my son very well. He's not struggling so much as he doesn't care. On Thanksgiving and other holidays how come I don't get the same equal respect as everyone else? I can't get a phone call saying happy birthday or happy fathers day. I think a good parent deserves that.
I am supposing you were drinking while he was growing up. I was reading in an older post of yours that you were sober for 10 years, so it's something you know you can do.

Treating mental illness with alcohol, as has been said is like throwing gasoline on a fire. It has the opposite affect. Maybe a temporary numbing of feelings but the aftermath is destructive.

Children of alcoholics have their own damage too. It's tough to be a child of an alcoholic and also, while he was growing up you might have been a bit emotionally distant due to the drinking.

I'm just guessing at all this. I grew up with an alcoholic in my house so I kind of understand this a bit. Everyone is different of course but alcoholics are erratic! I'm sure you know this well. Honestly he sounds a bit puzzled. How can he understand and accept you reaching out now?

Now, that is not to say all is lost, your Son loves you i'm sure but I think it would be helpful to forgive him for his stumbling on this one. Resentment will get you absolutely nowhere, you need to find a way to shake that off. To be honest I distanced myself from my Father, still saw him periodically etc but we were never close. I resented him. I felt guilty for not being there for him when he wanted to visit etc, but yeah, there was that resentment. Eventually I have come to accept things as they were and I'm not resentful anymore. As I grew up I realized he had his own demons to deal with.

Children tend to see their parents as super-humans. It can take a while to understand they are actually people!

You mentioned at one point that you used to study martial arts. Which one(s)? Is it possible to draw on some of the mental disciplines and spirituality of your training?
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:56 PM
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I don't understand why there is still so much stigma about mental illness. I was better off when I kept everything to myself. I do have resentment, how could I not? I think anyone would in my situation.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:30 PM
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It must be difficult for children to see a parent go in for mental illness. But it is also difficult to see a parent die from cancer. This is where a lot of stigma is. My son was a baby when I was committed.

I went to a couple AA meetings about 25 years ago. I didn't find it helpful probably because I was always panicking. I can see how it is a good thing but not for me. I lost all faith in God, but I understand how strong faith and religion can be a good thing. Having your kids support you and having positive people in your life can make all the difference.

It seems that you had a good support system or at least some positive influence. If your kids turned their backs on you things might have been different or at least much more difficult. I am happy and glad that you beat your demons and have a good outlook on life.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:42 PM
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w, that is not to say all is lost, your Son loves you i'm sure but I think it would be helpful to forgive him for his stumbling on this one. Resentment will get you absolutely nowhere, you need to find a way to shake that off. To be honest I distanced myself from my Father, still saw him periodically etc but we were never close. I resented him. I felt guilty for not being there for him when he wanted to visit etc, but yeah, there was that resentment. Eventually I have come to accept things as they were and I'm not resentful anymore. As I grew up I realized he had his own demons to deal with.

Children tend to see their parents as super-humans. It can take a while to understand they are actually people!

You mentioned at one point that you used to study martial arts. Which one(s)? Is it possible to draw on some of the mental disciplines and spirituality of your training?[/QUOTE]

While my son was growing up I drank on and off. I was sober for ten years and I started drinking again when he was four. I drank for a year and quit for a year and then drank on and off until after my divorce. I was never a drunk in front of anyone. I always hid it as best as I could. I drank at night after he went to sleep.

I certainly agree that drinking with mental illness is destructive. It does dull the senses and numbs the feelings. I suppose this is why many people drink. My father was an alcoholic and he was a very cold person. I tried to be different than my father and I was. I was a high functioning alcoholic and no one knew. Many times when I drank I had four beers. Drinking never interfered with work or family life. I always had a good relationship with my son.

I don't think I mentioned martial arts but I did do kempo karate for several years when I was in my twenties. Then years later I took mixed martial arts.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:23 AM
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Yes I read about your martial arts in another thread you posted in.

I don't understand why there is still so much stigma about mental illness. I was better off when I kept everything to myself. I do have resentment, how could I not? I think anyone would in my situation.
Oh for sure, I think the resentment is natural but destructive to YOU only.

That's the catch about resentment. It only hurts you and accomplishes nothing. You have expectations of your Son that he is not meeting and that causes resentment, I get that completely, we all do it to some degree.

It's holding on to those resentments that is the hook. He picks up on it, you dwell in it and it accomplishes absolutely nothing except to make you unhappy and/or angry.

It's a waste of time.

Now it's easy for ME to say that, I'm not in that, I know. I'm just telling you what I see/know.

So how do you shake a resentment? Let it go. Yep, again, easier said than done.

In order to let go you have to get rid of those expectations. Is your Son selfish? Self-involved? Uncaring? Unloving? I don't know the answer to any of that. For arguments sake let's say he is selfish. Your expectation is that he won't be. How does that serve you? It doesn't, you cannot change who he is and really shouldn't try.

To expect a selfish person to be non self-serving and then hold a resentment about it is only hurting you.

If you really think he deserves your resentment and you absolutely cannot let it go, you would be better distancing yourself from him.

On the other hand if you truly believe that he is a good guy who is just acting in some out-of-character way, why would you resent him? You can love a selfish person and just allow them to be who they are.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:09 PM
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It is true I have resentment towards my son, my family, and my ex friends. I should also say ex family. Family from everything I've seen, known, and read about helps family. If they don't they aren't family anymore. With my son we have fixed some things but not everything.

My son is selfish to some extent. We were estranged for a while. But estrangement isn't what we want. All I want is the same respect as everyone else. This of course is not possible because of the mental illness stigma. I am being discriminated against because of mental illness. I did nothing to anyone.

What I'm dealing with is not a joke. It is a life and death situation. People hold grudges because their feelings were hurt and because I didn't do what they wanted. My family wanted me to fail and self destruct. When I bought this condo five years ago not one family member said good luck or anything. They are narcissists. I am the family scapegoat and black sheep.

I tried so hard to meet a woman and I wanted a relationship. I met a few after my divorce but nothing was long term. I know it is me. I always had difficulty making friends and having relationships. If I had a significant other all this family ostracizing would be far less troubling.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:11 PM
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Sorry I posted this twice and just deleted the second one.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:59 PM
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Well the "family" (aside from your Son) don't sound like people you want to be around anyway, so at least that's something you know.

As for having a relationship, well it's still possible but you will have to do some healing first. Maybe that is one of the goals to look forward to.

Why are you bothering to try to make things better? So you can have that relationship, so you can also have a better relationship with your Son, so that you can make new contacts and friends. All of that is achievable (which you already know).

Now, you are going to have to get help at some point to achieve all that but for now, you are on the right track. You have quit drinking, you are taking better care of yourself and I hope soon you are going to start taking baby steps to get rid of things in your house, have a shower etc, things you would like to do.

How about taking some of that anger you are carrying around and direct it towards those tasks. I know, for myself, when I'm angry about something doing something with that energy is helpful to me. Just a suggestion.

Speaking of food (which we weren't but I will lol) - I haven't been to the store in about 2 weeks, I even ran out of bread today! I've just been busy and it can be a drudge but tomorrow! I will go to the store.

I want to buy something to BBQ but don't know what. Beef - something - I guess, whether that's steak or burger depends on what's on sale.

I hope you are keeping up with your eating more, that's so important. Have you cooked anything lately?
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:14 PM
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I would love to have a loving family but that's not the way it is. I'm not even thinking about ever having a relationship again. Maybe it is possible but that's a long way away. I need to really do a lot of work if I ever want to try to make a friend.

I think I stopped drinking for no other reason than I couldn't drink anymore. I'm glad I stopped now though. It's been a month now since my last drink.

I know I can clean up the house but I just haven't been motivated enough yet. I'm still really struggling just trying to eat and make it through the day. I don't have much appetite but I have been eating 1600 to 2000 calories a day.

Did you get to the store? I do the same thing and buy what I can on sale. Burgers, steak, chicken, and pork is what I try to buy. I like liver and onions once in a while too. Do you like liver? I have only been cooking with the microwave other than when I made tacos. I'm craving tacos again just trying to get motivated to make them.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:36 PM
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I did finally get to the store! Ended up buying burgers to BBQ as I decided that is what I actually wanted.

Also bought corn on the cob and made fries and gravy too.

So I pre-cook the burgers a bit, light up the BBQ, decide I had the timing off since I wanted to make fries first, got back to light it again and - nothing. I ran out of propane! Guess it has to happen sometime lol

So now I need to go exchange the tank, will try to do that in the next couple of days.

Ended up frying them and they were good.

Got a few other things, including a rotisserie chicken and salad for tomorrow or Saturday. Still haven't gotten around to making the beef in black bean sauce. I'm on holiday this week so have been out and about more than at home.
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Old 06-30-2018, 01:18 AM
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I have to say I do miss barbecuing. That's pretty much the only way I used to cook in the summer. Burgers on the grill are excellent for sure. Pan fried are very good too but grilled is better. I always ran out of propane until someone donated an extra tank. I always liked charcoal barbecuing better but you can't beat the convenience of propane.

I'm putting together a food order for this week. I might order some corn on the cob and maybe even an avocado. I'm still eating mostly rice and chicken. I'm getting some potatoes and I want to make a potato salad, either that or order a container of it.
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:54 PM
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Oh you asked about liver, no I don't like it but I know quite a few people do.

We are in agreement, I like charcoal much more than propane but the convenience is just too hard to resist.

What do you put in your potato salad? I use a fairly simple recipe but it's the family one! Potatoes (chopped not mashed), chopped green onion, regular yellow mustard and mayonnaise, salt, some paprika on top. Nothing fancy but I love it.

I had a couple of avocados so made guacamole again the other day with the mix I had left over. It was good. Thing with guacamole is you can only keep it for about a day and then it starts to not look appealing.

Tonight I made chicken stir fry with that rotisserie chicken, again, nothing fancy. I like jasmine rice (well I like all rice but currently using jasmine). Had bean sprouts, carrots, broccoli, green pepper. I use a mix for flavour and it's very mild and not spicy, which I like for stir fry.

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Old 07-02-2018, 12:32 PM
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My potato salad is pretty simple too. Diced potatoes, onion, and mayonnaise, and salt and pepper. I usually put in chopped lettuce, my mother always used lettuce. Sometimes I put in green beans or black olives.

An avocado just isn't very appealing right now. I'm eating but I don't have a good appetite. I'm gonna make sausage and meatballs. I took a pound of ground beef out of the freezer.

I used to buy the Jasmine rice but haven't lately. I like most rice dishes. A stir fry sounds good. I made stir fried rice with beef a couple months ago. It was good but wasn't as good as the Chinese restaurant.
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:16 PM
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I agree with that too. I don't normally cook Asian dishes because I can't do it as well as a restaurant here. I live in a city that is full of Asian restaurants and many are very very good. I lived in Asia for quite a while and so i'm happy that they are abundant here.

I only make mine as a kind of a lower calorie/healthier version for variety, ie: a stir fry rotisserie chicken is better than just chicken lol

Sorry to hear your appetite isn't great. You know how some foods make you want to eat more? For me that's things like chips or Cheetos, not sure what your foods like that are but if you find your appetite waning maybe get some of those foods in? While their nutritional value is questionable at least it will bring your caloric intake up and provide you with some energy? Just a thought.

Are you mixing sausage and beef for meatballs? That sounds good, what do you have with it? Pasta?
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:53 PM
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I have potato chips and fritos but don't feel like eating them. I have been eating a lot of yogurt, pudding, and popsicles and drinking Ensure and juice. I made a few banana splits too. Other than that mostly just rice and chicken. I did make sausage and meatballs today. I ate a couple meatballs, I don't have any desire to make pasta, but always did make pasta with sausage and meatballs. I almost forgot I made tacos a couple times.

I'm a wreak and I need help but can't ask for any at this time. I have been having mental highs and lows that change rapidly. I'm doing better than a month ago but I'm still not doing good. really think I'm dying and just wish it would be quick.
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