888 pancakes

It has been years since I posted here. I was sober for 3 years but I started to drink again in February of 2014. And yes, the following could and should read as a cautionary tale.

In 2015 I met someone new and fell head over heels in love with her. Turns out she was the biggest, scariest, craziest most toxic alcoholic I've ever met in my life.

She has 2 DUIs, one of which her parents helped her get out of and she wasn't charged with. The other which caused her to lose her license for 1 year. She never actually told me about the first one. I heard about it through a mutual acquaintance.

We were together for 2 years. During that time, she wet the bed at least half a dozen times or more and worse than that, pooped the bed on several occasions. She wouldn't only wet her own bed but also mine (we were in a long distance relationship) and also her family members' beds. Twice we stayed over at her family's cottage/house and she wet their beds.

She would drink to the point of appearing to hallucinate. I would try to get her stop but it was hard and often impossible. She wanted to stay up, drinking, chain smoking and talking to herself/her invisible friend.

Each morning she'd get up at a reasonably early hour, as if she hadn't just had a bottle of brandy and a bottle of gin (almost entire ones).

She fell down and hit her head one night. That was scary. She got up as if nothing had happened. She regularly had injuries she couldn't explain. Cuts, burns, bruises. a sprained ankle. One time I came up to see her and she had a black eye. She had no idea where she got it and dismissed it the way she dismissed everything. "Oh, must just be a burst blood vessel..." *shrug*

Her mood swings and temper were vicious. She would bake dozens of cookies and sweets in between binges and self-soothe through sugar/food.

One of the last times we were together she pushed me repeatedly (physically) and then groped me in bed (when I wanted to no part of her). And ya, it felt assaultive and sickening.

Here's the thing I can't seem to wrap my head around...

She thinks she doesn't have a problem with alcohol. She hasn't lost her job and it's a high profile/well respected job at that. It's also not a regular 9-5 job so she has built in flexibility. She doesn't drink every day. She basically binge drinks, once to twice (sometimes more) a week. When she starts drinking, she can't stop. She has stopped drinking on occasion, but only for 2 months max. It's not something she can do long term. And even when she quits for a few weeks she calls it a "cleanse." But there's no addressing the actual root of the problem.

One night this past summer when she drank so much there was poop everywhere, (ground into her bed, on her carpet, in the bathroom...) she blacked out in her bed and left candles burning in the diningroom. I blew them out. If I hadn't had my wits about me (at least somewhat) we could have burned alive in her house that night.

I know this woman is on a path toward death. Literally. Given her deep denial I don't believe she will ever seek help. I don't know what it will take for her to wake up. I'm guessing landing in the hospital might do it? But if that were the case, you would think the DUI, that landed her overnight in prison, would have been the wake up call and it was not.

I left her just after new year's. I have re-embraced my sobriety and am on day 19. I know I made the right choice in leaving. I guess where I remain "stuck" regarding her is the constant not being able to understand that kind of deep, deep denial. AND feeling concerned about the fact that she will likely die soon. She has a grown up son in his early 20s (she of course continued to drink when pregnant with him and was the product of a drunken one night stand) and she's seemingly close (in a toxic way) to her family. I'm guessing they know how ill she is but no one in her family appears to talk in a real way with one another, so who knows.

If I ever tried to broach the topic of her drinking while we were together it was met with such hostility and rage and she would always blame shift. In order to break up with her this time, as "cleanly" as I could, without toxic spew coming at me, I found the best way was to just cite my own issues. So, I noted I would be sober again and I cited our long distance as something I couldn't do anymore. So I never blamed her for anything. It worked. It was the easiest way out for me since I was breaking up with her not for a lack of love or caring. The fact remains, I still care about her very much and I worry about her. But I know it's not my problem or in my power to fix or even help.

I guess my question is, there HAS to be a part of her that KNOWS she has a serious problem and that she's on a path toward complete annihilation.

Should be noted too that she is no spring chicken. She is 55 years old. And oh ya, all her stories from her life (she was a good storyteller) are all about drinking. She's been at this for a very long time.

Sorry for the novel-length post.

Any thoughts or advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

~pancakes

888 pancakes

PS: Sorry I have no idea how to edit my original post but just wanted to add that I'm sorry for the gory details in this post. I haven't shared this level of goriness with anyone and I feel like I really need to share it.

I know it's not pretty stuff that I've shared.

I should also add that while this person sounds like an absolute nightmare, she was. But then she was also funny and smart and I loved the heck out of her. And I miss her. Those latter parts I continue to struggle with.

Thanks again,
P

notrealname333

I hope this isn't too off topic from the original post --

Speaking personally, as someone who comes from dysfunction, for most of my life I always magically "clicked" with people who were dysfunctional. And strangely enough that happened with all of my friends too. I think there's a built in desire to be with someone who has a similar idea of "normal" and can relate. Even if "normal" means alcoholism.

My dad went through a similar thing with my mom (who abandoned us because the booze was more important) and his message to me has been that it took him years to realize he was worthy of being with someone who didn't treat him like garbage and wasn't a trainwreck. That built-in desire was so strong and "normal".

I have been trying to unpack that myself, having been in a series of clearly toxic relationships that i justified with "but hey, when things were good they were great!"

888 pancakes

Off topic? Not at all! Your reply speaks to me tremendously. Thanks so much for posting it.

I still struggle with her deep (mind boggingly so, as per my title) denial and the fact she's so hell bent on self-destruction but wow, you really spoke to the other pieces. The "missing" her and still caring about her and thinking about her all the time...

Sounds like I have much in common with your dad (and yourself) and yes, I too am the child of much dysfunction. So being with unhealthy people has always felt normal.

Did you/your dad overcome this through therapy or...??

I do have an appointment with a counselor this week, which I'm hopeful about and which I think will be very helpful.

Thanks again for your post!

P

notrealname333

My dad wasn't a therapy guy so he was just dated my step-mom for a long time before getting remarried and they've been together for 31 years now. But he had said essentially he was suspicious of her for the 10(!) years they were dating because she wasn't abusive / out of control like my mom was.

Trying to understand the denial on her part is probably a lost cause / waste of time. My mom gave me up when I was 11, after leaving my dad when I was 6. I tried reaching out to her > 10 years later (after suffering through all the trauma of her leaving) thinking "ok this is where we have our reunion and everything makes sense and hallmark movie ending", but, she was just as much if not more of a bitter sh-tty drunk. The effort would have been better spent trying to figure out myself after what I went through, rather than bothering to piece together her motives. Life is short, at some point you need to be selfish / self-preserve. Unpacking someone else's baggage could be a lifetime task that you'll never pull off, and to what end?

Therapy honestly helps a lot, sometimes you need an outside person to help you pick apart why it is you do what you do, and why it is you put up with what you do. And that comes along with strategies for changing these behaviors or recognizing them early on.

888 pancakes

Thanks for this. Really hits home.

Ironically she just made contact for the first time in a couple of weeks. Sent an email saying she "I really miss you."

I really miss her too but writing that feels hella dangerous. That said, I feel like I have to respond with something...

Stayingsassy

Thanks, pancakes. Boy, it's something reading all that from another perspective. Her pattern sounds like mine was, though I seem to have escaped bathroom issues, goodness, alcoholism induced incontinence must be quite a pathetic thing to behold.

I appreciate your story and give you strength moving forward in your sobriety. I hope processing it by writing it out here was cathartic for you, it was helpful for us too.

MeMeMe7711

ya she sounds a lot like an older version of me. Trust me, you can only laugh something off or pretend everything is ok for so long. Deep with in her there is the knowledge that something is seriously wrong. For me the denial stemmed from that fact that if I actually acknowledged what a horrible monster I had become I truly felt like I would die. The denial was easier but in the end was killing me. The best thing you can do is stay away and protect your sobriety. In the end we all have to deal with our demons one way or the other.
That being said I know this is hard for you and I think its awesome that you had the ability to recognize there is a problem and get sober. Congrats on your 19 days!

notrealname333

Yeah man I've been there, those crazy dysfunctional relationships can be amazing when things are going good / after "making up" / etc. It's almost like that's another type of addiction that comes with being dysfunctional. But just like having a drink, you can play out in your head what happens if you respond / start talking again. She'll come over to your place, you'll have an awesome night, and then within a week it's back to square one. Nothing has changed except it's been a while since either of you have had that "emotional" drink.

888 pancakes

Thanks so much for all the replies!!

Yes, it did feel good to write it out. I've been feeling the need to do that for awhile. I appreciated you listening by reading that horror. ;-)

Thanks for the congrats on the 19 days! I will likely respond to her email but I am 100% firm in my resolve not to be in a so-called relationship with her again. Or even pursue anything casually or one-nighty. I will cite sobriety as a reason not to do that and thankfully she's 5 hours away so the distance for once is super helpful.

I do believe she is an addiction as much as the booze was. I recognize that and will keep myself safe from her. There is no way I can go back to that darkness and hell. I already suffer from depression and anxiety as it is. I don't need that in my life to make it even worse.

Thanks again for reading, everyone. I really appreciate all the words of support.

P

fini

hello pancakes,

you might check out the Friends and Family sections farther down the forum lists, too, and there will be lots of folks there with similar stories and experiences.

way to go on making the decision to get sober and i want to encourage you to stick around for yourself and your chance at ongoing sobriety. getting involved on a daily basis was a cornerstone of my new sobriety and panned out well.

Wells

First and foremost congrats on being here and on your own sobriety.

I always find the female alcoholics have a bit of a different type of situation than the males when it comes to the partner, so I try and check in from time to time when I can. Sorry you are going through this. As others have suggested, the Friends and Family forum is a great place for support.

I wanted to say I can relate to your plight when it comes to the feeling of "she is such a wonderful person when she's sober" and of course that's what brings so many of us here I think. If the person was like they were when using booze 24/7 we'd be so thankful they were gone and never even look for support. We love them because we see their potential, or at least the side they choose to show us, when they're in need of care or just plain sober. We dream about the potential of that person being with us 24/7 and the alcohol being gone forever. So I know where you are coming from and that's what makes it so hard.

I can say that it took me a long time to learn that I had to let her decide when enough was enough. It's so hard to not snoop around, look for those wine bags, track how many she's had today, how many drinks she's had this week, how many incidents she's had in the past months, days drunk, days sober, all that, to try and come up with some sort of pattern or even a line of evidence to try and show her factually that it's a problem. It takes a long time to realize that even in the face of denial of the incidents that deep down they know it's a problem, but choose to keep drinking anyway.

I will say as a "normie" as they call it sometimes it's become a little clearer for me to understand what others may be going through. The other day I was exercising and thinking I'd have a beer later on at night with dinner. Then suddenly it was bedtime and I'd realized the thought entirely had left my mind and I never had it. I keep beer and wine at the house at all times. Now, imagine the exact opposite, fantasizing about the drink so much that you ran and opened it the second you could get to it, and then proceeded to binge drink until you were sick or passed out because it was there. And this was NORMAL for you. The other day when this happened, I realized, there are two very different forces at work here and thankfully, I don't have the compelling draw within me to run to the bottle and obsess over it like that. Imagine if you did. That has to be what it's like for your girlfriend and what it's like for my ex. She once told me, she felt a pull of the alcohol, it was actually uncomfortable for her to know there was beer in the fridge and she wasn't drinking it. I can't imagine how difficult that must be.

I don't have a lot of advice to give other than to say I know where you are and I've been there and it's tough. Do not be surprised at all when you bring up drinking and the sudden argument or blame shifting happens. Remember when it does, that is just the alcohol fighting back and defending itself because that's what it does.

I also thought friends and family (hers and mine) might not be aware of the level that things went, but I also learned that more people realize the problem is there than you think. It's just an elephant in the room and most people learn over time that arguing with someone who chooses to drink excessively is a losing argument. It took me a long time to realize that that's just how some people are and that there is absolutely nothing on this earth you can do to change that about them. If there were, we'd all bottle it and sell it and get rich quick.

I'm sorry again to hear you are going through this. It's not easy and even to this day, years later, I sometimes lament the lost love and the "what ifs" and "if onlys" for my ex and what we could have had should she found a way to leave alcohol behind. To us it seems simple, like giving up pizza or chocolate cake or something else we love for the sake of something better. When you realize how much of a pull the alcohol has, you put yourself in those shoes, you see that unfortunately in many cases, it just overpowers all common sense and logic.

See you in the F&F forum and have a good day.

Berrybean

I suspect that any response would be seen as an Open invitation for more contact. It feels dangerous because it is. Especially as she's still entrenched in alcoholic craziness and even if she's sober when she receives your message, she won't be later that day.

And yes, it is so, so sad that people continue to go back out when it can kill them. I knew a lady from AA. She was in and out, always had some excuse or another for having to take another drink, even though she came to meetings on and off for 3 or 4 years. She wanted to get rid of the consequences but the thought of not drinking was unbearable. She was mid to late 40s I reckon. Died last week with a collapse of major organs in hospital. She'd been in and out of hospital over the years. She knew what it was doing to her. Alcoholism is a cunning and baffling disease.

So cunning and baffling sometimes that it even gets people who are newly sober themselves sidelined into thinking about other people's drinking more than their own recovery. When actually the best way to get better is focus on our own side of the street. In my first month i know that i was far more obsessed with other peoples drinking than I was with my own recovery. Didn't get me very far though. They still drank. I still hasn't learned any new tools for recovery. Thankfully I eventually realised my job was to work on me. And if those people wanted help later on, perhaps I'd be in a position to help them then.

I'd suggest not responding. But it might be too late for that now.

BB

PeacefulWater12

Growing up in dysfunction, I was repeatedly attracted to toxic partners as I thought it was "normal".

I joined Al-anon several years ago. Worked my own recovery. I keep the focus on myself.

Building a good, sober, strong self of sense. I discovered that by putting my focus on others, I was providing myself with a useful distraction from sorting myself out.

I am no longer attracted to toxicity. I see it, feel it in other people. I walk away.

I keep myself safe.

888 pancakes

Thanks, everyone. Super helpful replies. Every single one of 'em. I really appreciate the support. :-)

I went to my first AA meeting this morning in 10 years. It was a great group of people. I got pretty teary at the beginning because I kept thinking of her and "Why can't she be here with me?" And "She will never come here... she'll die instead... I can't help her."

I agree with the poster who said that it's ME and my drinking I need to focus on. My recovery. Not hers. Once I shifted the focus to me and stopped thinking about her, I could enjoy the rest of the meeting without tears running down my face (embarrassing!)

I did write her back last night. I said that I miss her too and that I hoped we could be friends down the road. I figured adding that last part would save me from a quagmire. It seemed to. She wrote back in the affirmative and that was that. Now, I suspect she'll make contact again but I'm pretty sure I know how to repel her (the way one would a vampire, with garlic ;-))... all I have to do is mention AA and she'll back off forever. Pretty sure of that.

I plan to go back to the group next Sunday too. I can't remember the last time I was walking the quiet streets of my town on a Sunday morning! Wow. It was kinda magical.

Thanks again for all the support and wishing you all a great rest of the weekend...

P

Berrybean

Glad you're feeling a bit more positive after your meeting. I love that feeling of being out and about before the bustle, crowds and mess of the day has unfolded. In my tiny toy-town city there is almost a conspiratorial feeling between the people who pass each other on the street at that time. Eye contact and good mornings, the works lol.

BB

888 pancakes

Tiny toy-town city?? Sounds charming. And kinda hilarious. And thanks, yes, the meeting was a good move and I'll be heading back next Sunday. It'll be a kind of "church." ;-)

Berrybean

Honestly. Area 60 km2 with a population a breath over 20,000 folk. It's only a city because we have cathedral, which was started just before 1100, so noone's arguing with that lol. Love it though. Esp as I've only ever lived here sober, and I have lots of sober friends here.

Glad you're going back. Have you got others to try in the week?

BB

888 pancakes

No, none during the week. I work Mon - Fri from 9 - 5 and as a staunch introvert that's enough for me. I kinda savour my alone time in the evenings. I also have a therapy appointment on Wednesday this week so even more full up than usual. All good. Once a week for now, on Sundays, sounds good. If I need to step it up, I will.

Your town sounds enviable. I'd love that kinda insular quietude. And to be in a town where you've always been sober? Also dreamy. Good for you. I look forward to having sober friends myself one day. Hopefully sooner than later... ;-)

P

Berrybean

Hmmmm.

I think I see a flaw in your plan. Lol..

How ya gonna make sober friends if you only go to work, your counsellor and then one meeting a week? Might be worth reconsidering that.

When you do go to your meetings(s) it's also worth getting there early to help set up, and staying late to help clear away. That's when folk really get to know each other. It's easier to get talking over a job. Reduces need for prolonged eye contact for a start off.

Did you get some numbers to call when you went to the meeting?

BB