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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 5

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 5

Old 08-13-2012, 08:35 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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Sorry, Obladi, I wasn't trying to muddy the waters. I admit I confuse myself sometimes, lol...

You got it right: I just meant that in addition to being the source of "you can't handle it", AV was also the source of the thought "maybe she's right."

Wait, where'd the faces go? Now I just see a vase... (Love that analogy!)
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:00 AM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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I think it's sometimes easier to think "yes I can" to "you can't handle it", as opposed to "no you're not" when it's "but what if I'm right?"

I'm not sure why that is... perhaps it's because you then start thinking, "oh, maybe you are," rather than being able to totally dismiss something when it is just a statement...
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:10 AM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
See, I like being helpful to other people and I really think am sometimes, but I think that at times I am too empathetic and it impacts my own internal workings. Even better is hoping that recognizing the AV, in and of itself, can be so helpful. I can do that (at least when she's real rambunctious, maybe not so much when she's sneaky, not sure).

ReadyandAble, I'm interested to hear what other people think as well. I also get a kick out of seeing people succeed, but watching people trip seems to engage this troublesome "me too" reaction. Very troublesome.

fresh, I've thought about this quite a lot since I posted it (of course!), and I'm not sure if that mastiff is the AV or if it's what I fear the AV is guarding. And I know AVRT makes no claims to do anything to help with what you find once you've tamed the beast. Sooooo. Perhaps that's AV telling me I can't handle it, but what if she's right?
Hi

Let's start with your AV (or mine) is never right about anything, EXCEPT, that it desires alcohol. Its always correct that its desires are real, and powerful, and in-your-face. More to the point, your AV is not YOU, it is your addiction speaking to you using your own thoughts / feelings in an attempt to convince you to pick up and drink. The Beast (the seperated AV) cannot itself pour a drink, or drink it, and you are not helpless in the process. The Beast needs you to actually drink the drink, and so it suggests whatever it can to get you drinking.

The distinctions between ourselves and our AV is the whole point and reason why and how AVRT works. Everything in bold in my quote of your post is pure AV. Do you see it as your Beast talking to you? Or do you see it as your Beast listening to you thinking? Also, do you think listening to your Beast is helpful?

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Old 08-15-2012, 03:34 PM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Robby,

Hi yourself.

Thanks.
I've made it halfway through the RR book, and hear/understand what you are saying about the AV never being right about anything having to do with thought. It wants what it wants and that's all. Noted.

I do see it as my Beast talking to me. I don't think the Beast listens to anything. It's not capable of "listening." It only wants what it wants. Nope, don't think listening to the Beast is helpful at all. Just working on deciphering which is which.

I do not "see" what is AV about the first sentence you bolded. Unless you think it's pure rubbish. To which I might take offense, but have at it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
Robby,

Hi yourself.

Thanks.
I've made it halfway through the RR book, and hear/understand what you are saying about the AV never being right about anything having to do with thought. It wants what it wants and that's all. Noted.
Welcome, for sure.
Yeah, the Beast is all about addictive desire, and is pretty dumb otherwise. Still though, it is not to be under estimated when it comes to warping addictive desires. Way clever in that arena is the Beast, is my experience.

I do see it as my Beast talking to me. I don't think the Beast listens to anything. It's not capable of "listening." It only wants what it wants. Nope, don't think listening to the Beast is helpful at all. Just working on deciphering which is which.
The Beast knows what we know in intimate detail, and so in a manner all its own, it does "listen" for doubt, weakness, addiction ambivalences, etc. It does attempt to take advantage of confusion, selfishness, unsettled feelings, and so on.

Yes, listening to the Beast "talk" is not helpful, and yet, we do need an awareness of the seperation of our Addictive Voice and our normal thinking. It is important to realise that the Beast's "talk" is a part of our normal thinking. It is the twisted addictive desire which is maladjusted, and not our thinking. Here again, AV recognition is essential.

I do not "see" what is AV about the first sentence you bolded. Unless you think it's pure rubbish. To which I might take offense, but have at it.
No problem. I don't see it as pure rubbish in the least. Actually, I see the humanity in your wording.

"See, *I like* being helpful to other people
and I really think am *sometimes*,
but I think that at times I am *too empathetic*
and it *impacts* my own *internal workings*."

Nonetheless, I see AV with self-doubt being introduced with the idea that you caring for others can sometimes work against you. This opens a door to begin a critical dialogue with you, tailored by your Beast, at your expense, while it chips away at your resolve to enjoy helping others, and challenging your feelings of empathy.

Positively restating your empathetic desires, efforts, challenges, and results, would very much exclude your Beast from tampering with those *sometimes* you become impacted, okay?

We really don't want to give the Beast even an inch. It really is unrelenting in taking every advantage it can scrape up, so the more we can kick it down and leave it hurting and howling, the better we do, yeah?

Tell me, Obladi, what do you think of my "having at it" ?!

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Old 08-15-2012, 06:10 PM
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May I, please?
I like helping other people.
I know that I make a difference.
Sometimes, my empathy makes me sad for other people in their situations, but this is part of my character that makes me effective in helping them.
Sometimes my empathy rouses my beast and my AV tells me 'I am no better than them and will fail at sobriety', but this is not true.
I will never drink again, and I will not change my mind.
Is this what you were referring to, Robby?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:37 PM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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Robby, I think you are being very gentle and I appreciate it. You are correct that It challenges me and wants me to question/doubt/fear who "I" am. I yam who I yam and SHE can go jump in a lake.

Fresh, you nailed it.

So here's the next thing. I know AVRT cares not a whit about where these addictive tendencies originated, but I care. And I think I have just deciphered that after many many MANY years of trying. Is there harm or danger in naming what "it" was that aroused the Beast?
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
May I, please?
I like helping other people.
I know that I make a difference.
Sometimes, my empathy makes me sad for other people in their situations, but this is part of my character that makes me effective in helping them.
Sometimes my empathy rouses my beast and my AV tells me 'I am no better than them and will fail at sobriety', but this is not true.
I will never drink again, and I will not change my mind.
Is this what you were referring to, Robby?
No, I'm afraid not, Fresh. I've noted that nonetheless Obladi confirms you've nailed it, lol. Interesting.

I was not refering to the empathy extended by Obladi, but more her claim that sometimes she seemingly extends too much empathy, and this "extra" impacts her internal workings. Impact suggests a negative result, and this negative result works against her empathetic desires to help others because she is challenged within herself helping others.

So, the idea here for the Beast to work with would be that caring for others sometimes creates a doubt of how much empathy is too much/not enough. This then can be used against herself too, that she may care too much or not enough about herself in similar situations. Empathy by definition means being aware of others having certain respective thoughts/feelings, and can also mean identifying with those samewise thoughts/feelings of others to the point of "been there myself", related by same experience, and so on.

The bottom line here is that the Beast has some room to work with the idea that Obladi can sometimes care too much about whatever, and so she should likely check herself. All doubt is addictive voice.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:16 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
Robby, I think you are being very gentle and I appreciate it. You are correct that It challenges me and wants me to question/doubt/fear who "I" am. I yam who I yam and SHE can go jump in a lake.

Fresh, you nailed it.

So here's the next thing. I know AVRT cares not a whit about where these addictive tendencies originated, but I care. And I think I have just deciphered that after many many MANY years of trying. Is there harm or danger in naming what "it" was that aroused the Beast?
No harm or danger is created. Keeping secrets from the Beast dosen't work, simply because the Beast knows, in intimate detail, whatever we know. As a matter of fact, the Beast loves to keep secrets from us, keep us off balanced, confused, unsure, doubtful, and so on.

So, getting face to face with the Beast, and matching the Beast play by play is always the best way forward. The Beast loves being in darkness, and dragging the Beast into the light of self-discovery really throws a wrench into the machinations of the Beast.

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Old 08-15-2012, 09:16 PM
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Is there harm or danger in naming what "it" was that aroused the Beast.
None at all, Obladi. And there's no danger in feeling empathy for others. And there's no risk from hanging out on SR. There's no danger to you at all, because you are invincible. Or at least you will be once you start believing in your own invincibility.

If you can recognize AV (and you seem to be well on your way), the beast has no ability to do anything to you. Its power is illusory; yours is the real deal. At least that's how I look at it.

It's great to see you getting the hang of this, diving deep. I appreciate the discussion; super thought-provoking stuff.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:32 PM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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This is the nugget I thought fresh nailed.

Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Sometimes my empathy rouses my beast and my AV tells me 'I am no better than them and will fail
And Robby, that's right - It makes me doubt whether I care enough or if it's too much. About others as well as about myself.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:42 AM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Been reading the book on my morning train ride and it had me laughing today. At myself, at the joy of reading someone else express flat out what's on my mind. I still think I'm full of p**p when I repeat"I will never drink again," but I'm also beginning to be able to accept and understand that IT wants me to believe I'm full of p**p.

Just wanted to take a moment to say how much I appreciate this discussion and to urge anyone who may lurk here to get the book. I'm not big on the whole kumbaya "self help" thing, but this is different.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:45 AM
  # 73 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
Been reading the book on my morning train ride and it had me laughing today. At myself, at the joy of reading someone else express flat out what's on my mind. I still think I'm full of p**p when I repeat"I will never drink again," but I'm also beginning to be able to accept and understand that IT wants me to believe I'm full of p**p.

Just wanted to take a moment to say how much I appreciate this discussion and to urge anyone who may lurk here to get the book. I'm not big on the whole kumbaya "self help" thing, but this is different.
Awesome understanding you got going on there, Obladi. Sweeeet!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:47 AM
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Well said, Obladi. AVRT is definitely not about holding hands and singing kumbaya. I view it as martial arts for the mind.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
I still think I'm full of p**p when I repeat"I will never drink again," but I'm also beginning to be able to accept and understand that IT wants me to believe I'm full of p**p.

Just wanted to take a moment to say how much I appreciate this discussion and to urge anyone who may lurk here to get the book.
Obladi, from my vantage, it is fabulous to read your post there. The joy of seeing your 'penny drop' is why I continue to hang around SR. I am so very happy for you. Congratulations!
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:41 PM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Obladi, from my vantage, it is fabulous to read your post there. The joy of seeing your 'penny drop' is why I continue to hang around SR. I am so very happy for you. Congratulations!
fresh, I'm not there yet. But I am starting to get it. In fact, I'm getting it in a Really Big Way that is beyond what I was seeking. Think I'll probably start a new thread about this because I don't want to make this one all about me, much as I DO believe I'm fascinating.

You guys are awesome, thanks.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:08 AM
  # 77 (permalink)  
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IT would have me believe it's a mastiff, growing ever larger and more ferocious. In fact, that's AV, getting louder and gnashing teeth and putting on a good spook show. It is the same size it's always been. It can't grow and it won't shrink, it just is.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:37 AM
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It's like in the cartoons, when an enormous shadow appears on the wall, and it looks like a horrible monster is coming down the hall.

Then out walks a mouse holding a candle.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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It can't grow and it won't shrink, it just is.
I like this, Obladi. It is what it is. Mindful acceptance with no judgement, and hankie twisting is right out. This is how we rise above these AV thoughts to let our own native wisdom and strength prevail.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:33 PM
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I have read more on Rational Recovery, and my AH called Mr. Trimpey yesterday and had a good conversation with him, then went and drank again this morning on his way home from an overnight job. He already missed out on about $400 by showing up with alcohol on his breath in a job last week. He swore up and down that he knew he had to stop and would. Since the agency that put him in the job didn't seem to care much that their client, the employer, had taken him from the job, it seems he has decided it wasn't any big deal worth quitting for. Even after talking to Mr. Trimpey yesterday.

So I told him before that if he drank and drove my car (I brought it into the relationship and it is our only car - I put him on the title when we moved here in 2000) one more time I was going to put the title back in my name. So this morning I told him he had his chance and more than one chance, and now I was putting the title back in my name only. This is in accordance with the Rational Recovery book's chapter on families and suggested actions. we have to act on what we say we will do.

My inlaws, who live about an hour south of us, want us to come down to talk tomorrow. They think he should go into residential treatment. My take on that is, he only pretends at AA and the like to placate us and residential treatment would be no different. He really likes what was written about dragging someone to a treatment facility so I know he won't go for it.

I'll be emailing my inlaws some info from the rational recovery site.



this page is the one I will send first.

Thank you for listening. If you have ideas of what we can say or do tomorrow that I haven't read yet in Rational Recovery, I'm all ears.

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