Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 5
Backup Plans
Peta mentioned AA, and I responded in that context, but I would have responded in the same manner if she had said "and therefore why don't you drink for a few days and then go back to SMART (or rehab)."
Post drinking party "backup plans" of any kind are highly suspect, and are definitely Addictive Voice. Why? Because in order for the "backup plan" to kick in when AVRT doesn't "work", you obviously have to drink first.
If you have a backup plan to your Big Plan, you have a plan to drink.
Post drinking party "backup plans" of any kind are highly suspect, and are definitely Addictive Voice. Why? Because in order for the "backup plan" to kick in when AVRT doesn't "work", you obviously have to drink first.
If you have a backup plan to your Big Plan, you have a plan to drink.
Peta mentioned AA, and I responded in that context, but I would have responded in the same manner if she had said "and therefore why don't you drink for a few days and then go back to SMART (or rehab)."
Post drinking party "backup plans" of any kind are highly suspect, and are definitely Addictive Voice. Why? Because in order for the "backup plan" to kick in when AVRT doesn't "work", you obviously have to drink first.
If you have a backup plan to your Big Plan, you have a plan to drink.
Post drinking party "backup plans" of any kind are highly suspect, and are definitely Addictive Voice. Why? Because in order for the "backup plan" to kick in when AVRT doesn't "work", you obviously have to drink first.
If you have a backup plan to your Big Plan, you have a plan to drink.
Yeah, no problem for me, about what was being said. I was just being funny, because of my long past earlier experiences in sobriety.
Yes, any secondary plan or contingency to the Big Plan is a plan to drink. There is no reasonable way for the Big Plan to be tested for failure. Sweeeet!
Hmmm, I hadn't known Obladi still already did not have a Big Plan when I responded. No wonder things have become confused. AVRT of course dosen't work without a Big Plan.
Will you be making a Big Plan Obladi?
For some reason, this question is typically is asked this way: Are you ready to make a a plan for your continued use of alcohol?
For a version of the acceptable answer, see below.
I wish you well, Obladi.
For a version of the acceptable answer, see below.
I wish you well, Obladi.
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Ah, well, truth be known I didn't fully, wholeheartedly, completely embrace the concept of "never" (Big Plan-style) until a month or two into my recovery (though I still hadn't heard of AVRT at that point).
It's hard to say exactly when I committed, because I danced right up to it for a while, but still felt some hesitation.
So while I absolutely think the Big Plan is critical—and it also happens to make everything simpler, because it makes my AV so easy to spot—I think your progress so far has been impressive, Obladi.
It's hard to say exactly when I committed, because I danced right up to it for a while, but still felt some hesitation.
So while I absolutely think the Big Plan is critical—and it also happens to make everything simpler, because it makes my AV so easy to spot—I think your progress so far has been impressive, Obladi.
Except that Obladi has not made a Big Plan, so she will have difficulty seeing this contrast. Still undecided about whether or not she wants to keep drinking, the inner debate ("should I or shouldn't I") will probably continue unabated. Just the way it works.
Beast is the desire for pleasure produced by alcohol and other drugs.
Addictive Voice is the expression of that desire in your thoughts and feelings.
Other recovery paradigms don't generally make this distinction, between the desire and the expression of that desire, but AVRT does, and this distinction can help in separating from the Beast.
Beast is the desire for pleasure produced by alcohol and other drugs.
Addictive Voice is the expression of that desire in your thoughts and feelings.
Other recovery paradigms don't generally make this distinction, between the desire and the expression of that desire, but AVRT does, and this distinction can help in separating from the Beast.
You are afraid of the Beast, and are trying to silence the AV, which can't be done. You fear that if the Beast will not stop barking, that you will succumb to its demands. The problem is, every time you respond, you encourage it, and like an encouraged dog, it just keeps barking, expecting that you will eventually get tired of debating and drink.
BTW, have you read the "RR: The New Cure" book?
BTW, have you read the "RR: The New Cure" book?
I have read the book (and the entire discussion here), and am following the advice to read a second time.
People like to say this, but with AVRT, it would be more accurate to say that nothing works, but that anyone can quit. By "works", people usually mean that the desire to get drunk/high is removed, but AVRT makes no such promise, and if you think AVRT "works" in this fashion, you may be disappointed.
I appreciate all of your responses. You are a very helpful and perceptive crowd. Thanks for being here.
Obladi, I'm liking what you're saying. Very nice. You are correct, there is a leap of faith here where we just decide that we can do this, and then jump. The water is fine, nothing bad can possibly happen, and more good things will happen than you can imagine.
My sex drive is active every day, for example, and I'm sure that if I acted on every single thought generated by that particular survival drive, that I would get into lots of trouble. Still, I don't want to be neutered just because I don't act on all such thoughts. I simply recognize such thoughts, since I know where they are coming from, and when not appropriate, I just don't act on them as a matter of principle.
I don't debate with my sex drive, because it just is, and debating wouldn't change it or deter it at all. I also don't need to hide from attractive people or try and run away from my sex drive in order to not go stark raving mad. AVRT is kind of like this, just a way of living comfortably in the presence of unfulfilled desires, with no fear of those desires. AVRT makes this easier by allowing me to attribute any sense of suffering or deprivation to the Beast itself, so that ITS suffering is not my suffering, and ITS deprivation is not my deprivation.
Intolerance of desire is what drives addiction, and the idea that having unfulfilled desires is utterly impossible is the grand illusion that sustains it. People don't actually explode or go insane just because they have desires that they don't act upon. Unfortunately, this isn't always easy to see from within the bubble of addiction, because the AV exaggerates the difficulty of quitting. Echoing the AV itself, others may also speak of how "difficult" it is to quit, which only feeds the illusion.
In truth, quitting is only really difficult for your Beast, though, and this is where the separation comes in. When you feel the Beast cringe, and the AV pipe up, recognize it as a very good sign, a sign that you have gained the upper hand. Instead of struggling with the AV, talking back to it, or seeing it as a terrible thing, recognize it as the death throes of your enemy. Your Beast thinks it is dying, and it is saying "I'm dying, Obladi, won't you please have mercy? Won't you please feed me?"
Show no mercy. Be glad. Be cruel. Abstain.
There is no way to logically prove the Big Plan, but you can arrive at it through intuition, and ultimately, it does feel somewhat like a leap of faith. In TNC book, Jack compares it to jumping off a high dive into the water. You can watch others do it, but you don't really believe it is safe until after you yourself jump.
I see freshstart beat me to this and already made a reference to it.
It's certainly possible. AVRT is easy in practice, but impossible to grasp with a drink in either hand. I think you already know this, but just be aware that the Beast will necessarily try to put off quitting forever.
Reference: "Illusion 12" on pages 81-83 and "Outline of a Big Plan" on pages 132-134 of RR:TNC.
The Beast will always cringe when contemplating making a Big Plan. This is the recoil effect, and it is universal. To the Beast, a Big Plan means death by deprivation, and the AV will almost certainly try to tell you that you shouldn't take such drastic measures, or that you don't really mean it.
Oh, believe me, I know.
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Originally Posted by Obladi
So It is confident It has the upper hand (paw, claw, talon). It's MO is the sneak attack at the most opportune moments for It.
Take RR's wiggle-the-finger test. Shows the Beast has no physical power, right? I don't think it has any independent ability to reason, either. I see it as pure drive, not a calculating, reasoning, scheming entity. It creates the emotional impetus that leads me to calculate, reason, and scheme on its behalf—until I learn to recognize it. Once I can recognize it, it can't even think. It's just desire—nothing else. The urge will surface now and then, but it's random as far as I can tell. There's been no grand traps along the way, no surprise ambushes.
The Beast can still move about, and perhaps it always will, but there's no place left for it to hide.
In fact, I think you can control all of it; the Beast is nothing without you. It can't attack you unless you let it.
You are correct.
I can.
(interesting concept, 'control.' The media would have me believe that 'letting go' is hip, cosmopolitan, exhilarating. Guess it depends on what you are letting go OF.)
I dunno.
I understand my Beast up as being up and about doing its thing, and my AV as being same old same old. There is something to be said for common place experiences as in knowing my Beast and my AV in simplistic means and ways.
"Control" sounds too energetic for me, lol.
Good point, Robby.
I think what needs "control" is my response.
I understand the ideal is to get to the point of reacting to this clamoring as if it is no more than a cloud of gnats. "Oh, ick, let me just step aside and let those things pass."
I think what needs "control" is my response.
I understand the ideal is to get to the point of reacting to this clamoring as if it is no more than a cloud of gnats. "Oh, ick, let me just step aside and let those things pass."
I am shocked at what an opportunist my beast is. I feel like a million bucks today! Boot camp rock star, cranking at work, family doing great, hopeful - all really really terrific and BAM!!! I am suddenly bombarded with - "lets celebrate tonight?!?!? See, you have your act together. No one even knows you wake up with hangovers - see you don't have a problem etc..."
It is really starting to irratate me. I am so "aware" of how my thinking has been manipulated- if you will -by this "thing." I am not sure I can articulate this- but, I am just AWARE of everything I am thinking..... Does that make sense? Is it more thoughtful to try and not be so aware of every thought- as it seems I am now waiting for beast activity so I can attack it or is that really beast activity in disguise?
I feel like I have been given a loaded gun and am ready for the fight of my life. I want my life back more than anything else in this world and AVRT has FINALLY given me something I can work with! I would love to know if anyone else has had this experience.
It is really starting to irratate me. I am so "aware" of how my thinking has been manipulated- if you will -by this "thing." I am not sure I can articulate this- but, I am just AWARE of everything I am thinking..... Does that make sense? Is it more thoughtful to try and not be so aware of every thought- as it seems I am now waiting for beast activity so I can attack it or is that really beast activity in disguise?
I feel like I have been given a loaded gun and am ready for the fight of my life. I want my life back more than anything else in this world and AVRT has FINALLY given me something I can work with! I would love to know if anyone else has had this experience.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I'm not sure I want to "control" my Beast, or my AV, you know?
Let's not build the Beast up to be the Moriarty to our Holmes. This isn't a battle of wits, because the only wits are our own. AVRT is about bringing those wits back into alignment with our goals, instead of allowing them to be co-opted by addiction.
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Originally Posted by ashbyee
Is it more thoughtful to try and not be so aware of every thought- as it seems I am now waiting for beast activity so I can attack it or is that really beast activity in disguise?
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