Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 5 This is part five of an ongoing thread for discussion on the method of Rational Recovery®, called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique®, or AVRT®, which is described in detail in the following book: "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey The previous parts of this thread are available here:
If you have not done so already, you may want to read the following posts:
NOTE: Wherever they appear here, with or without the ®, Rational Recovery®, Addictive Voice Recognition Technique®, AVRT®, and Beast® are proprietary service marks registered by the United States Patent and Trademark Office and owned by Rational Recovery Systems, Inc. |
Thanks, Dee. I'll send you the $20 for letting me get the last word on that other thread. :) |
Originally Posted by freshstart57
(Post 3488272)
A magic bullet? No, I am not that naive, and I accept and understand that my AV is part of a healthy brain. Nonetheless, annoying things are annoying. While I understand and accept that bees are a part of a healthy environment, I would still prefer not to be stung. Also, the preference not to be stung by bees is not quite the same thing as a preference for no bees, is it? In other words, a preference for recognizing AV nonsense is not quite the same thing as a preference for no AV.
Originally Posted by freshstart57
(Post 3488272)
This leads again to a distinction between skillful and unskillful desire, as well as skillful and unskillful suffering. This is a useful distinction here, because without it the reductio leads pretty darn quick to the absurdum. I shouldn't indulge this, but just for kicks, I would argue that the desire to not have Beast activity or a preference for AV silence falls under the category of unskillful desire, because it aims for the impossible. We cannot control what the Beast wants or mitigate the expression of that desire in our thoughts (ie, the Addictive Voice). The Beast is what it is, and it will come and go as it pleases, not as we please. Better to come to terms with that entirely.
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
(Post 3488916)
So I'm buying the bees. A preference for a smooth, easy journey through the day—to live comfortably in the presence of AV, as Dalek phrased it—is not the same as eagerly anticipating the magical disappearance of AV.
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
(Post 3488916)
Isn't RR making a nod to the basic human desire for comfort when it says we can learn to relate to AV "as less than a nuisance"?
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
(Post 3488916)
Bearing in mind that a preference is not the same as a condition, I don't see how it meets these criteria (for AV) I would add that there is a mighty thin line between preferring AV silence temporarily and wanting the AV to go away entirely. Anyone who wants the AV to go away temporarily inevitably also wants it to go away permanently. You can play with the words and say that you prefer but do not require AV silence if you want, and I will assume that to be the case, but I still consider that preference mighty suspect. In my own thinking, I would see it as Addictive Voice. |
you can play with the words and say that you prefer but do not require av silence if you want, and i will assume that to be the case, but i still consider that preference mighty suspect. In my own thinking, i would see it as addictive voice. |
I don't think it's really playing with the words. I give Trimpey & Co. a lot of credit for being so precise in their language, and personally think I could drive a truck through that mighty thin line... But I notice the horse is no longer moving, so I should probably stop beating it with this rolled up Big Plan of mine... :) I'm glad you're here, Dalek; please do not stop calling them like you see 'em! |
Let's all hold hands around the fire of our differences, warmed by the glow of our sameness, and chant out a couple of hearty songs, no?! :rotfxko You guys sooo slay me. Awesome. I'm in good company, and I'm grateful to be enjoying our collective experiences. What's there not to like? :thanks |
Kumbaya, Rob. Kumbay effin ya. So now that we've conclusively settled that issue, what's next? :) PS: You shoulda seen the way my Beast jumped around in his cage at the fireside singalong metaphor. Appears I've discovered some more dusty old mental associations, lol... |
At this point for me quitting is almost too easy. I'm not really sure why, maybe its the fact that I made it past that first 10 days or so? I'm not sure at all but I've really had almost no desire at all to drink after that initial few days. I've been drinking heavily for over 15 years and have not been able to moderate my drinking for all of that time. I visited my wife a few days ago, took her shopping, she asked me why I didn't get beer, lol. She already knows I quit, then when we get back to her place she keeps asking me if i want a beer, she doesn't have anything else cold so I should really drink a beer, she had a few, I just drank semi-cold water. Then everytime she went to get her another one she was asking me if I wanted on that time, as if I'd change my mind haha. I have no idea why she didnt want to put soda or water in the fridge, maybe she really thought she could get me to drink. The funny thing is, she was always trying to get me to quit drinking, for years, but then as soon as I did quit for a while she was always doing this and now I realize that I was right to move out before trying to seriously quit drinking. She doesn't have a drinking problem at all and can drink 1 or 4 or none so maybe she just doesn't get it but I don't understand why after she watched me drink for over a decade and was constantly complaining about it. Anyway, I don't see this getting any more difficult and I have no intention of ever drinking again either. I know that even though it seems so easy it's also easy to get back on the same merry-go-round for many more years. |
oh how I have missed you guys! I know you all beat it up pretty good, but might I add that buddhism actually encourages a sort of "leaning into"...a sort of welcoming discomfort rather than running from or trying to abolish it in some way. I do see the parallels and have always said so, however I agree that it is not effective to inject these or any other ideas into AVRT. The simplicity is the key. The more one muddies the waters, well...the muddier the water is. |
It is very good to have you back with us, Soberlicious, was getting a little concerned. Not concerned about you so much, but concerned about us! Good to hear from you again. |
Hey, soberlicious, how ya doin? Badass as ever, I assume? Don't get me started again on the Buddhist parallels... but alas, I don't believe the reincarnation elements, so that particular horse must horse remain quite dead to me. Imaquitter, I just realized you're in SD, too. AVRT must be taking a serious toll on local liquor sales.... OK, sorry, I know this isn't a social thread. So how about this for a topic: The popularization of the term "AV." It seems to be a lot more common on the newcomers threads. Often it seems people know little about AVRT; some are even active in AA or another recovery paradigm. So—what do you guys make of that? On the one hand, I agree AVRT is incompatible with many other programs. But viewing the desire as originating from my addiction, not me, and thereby detaching from it, was incredibly helpful to me before I had heard about AVRT and the Big Plan. |
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble Badass as ever, I assume? But viewing the desire as originating from my addiction, not me, and thereby detaching from it, was incredibly helpful to me before I had heard about AVRT and the Big Plan. Now, having just stressed the simplicity of AVRT in the previous post, I'm also going to say that I think it's a mistake to oversimplify the complexities of the AV. Reading RR has really allowed me to hone in on AV in myself and in others. Identify/seperate/dismiss. Obviously, w/o identifying, the rest is moot. |
Originally Posted by imaquitter
(Post 3492811)
I don't see this getting any more difficult and I have no intention of ever drinking again either. |
Reading RR has really allowed me to hone in on AV in myself and in others. |
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
(Post 3493246)
So—what do you guys make of that? On the one hand, I agree AVRT is incompatible with many other programs. But viewing the desire as originating from my addiction, not me, and thereby detaching from it, was incredibly helpful to me before I had heard about AVRT and the Big Plan. I don't see AVRT as strickly incompatible with many other programs upon deeper introspection. I'm managing to make progress with AVRT, and I'm satisfied I've not been 'assimilated by the Borg-ness' [Star Trek] of AVRT, heh heh. I do see as problematic how/if AVRT is expressed as a personal experience when compared with other modalities, programs, philosophies, etc. Side-by-side comparisons are unproductive and unrevealing, imo, except to bring confusion into the discussion, which can not itself be helpful. It's all about the AV itself. We each have a subjective experience of our AV, and yet AVRT is not a subjective technique whatsoever when implemented to discover our AV. This seperation of experience is interesting to say the least, and its this difference in experiences which defines AVRT has different when 'compared' with whatever. The Beast is 'philosophically created', because of the results this seperation of addictive experiences /non-addictive experiences. And like we are saying, we seemed to have understood and appreciated our awareness of the existence of the Beast before we took up AVRT. I too early on fully embraced my addicted self was not me myself, even though it was of me. This ongoing continuos experience has never failed me, and never will, because it works so well no matter the depth of my introspection. Great question, RAA. |
Originally Posted by imaquitter
(Post 3492811)
At this point for me quitting is almost too easy. I'm not really sure why, maybe its the fact that I made it past that first 10 days or so? I'm not sure at all but I've really had almost no desire at all to drink after that initial few days. I've been drinking heavily for over 15 years and have not been able to moderate my drinking for all of that time. Try repeating this a few times to yourself. "I used to drink alcohol." and see if you recognize some new AV feelings connected to doubt. |
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
(Post 3493246)
...how about this for a topic: The popularization of the term "AV." It seems to be a lot more common on the newcomers threads. Often it seems people know little about AVRT; some are even active in AA or another recovery paradigm. So—what do you guys make of that? On the one hand, I agree AVRT is incompatible with many other programs. But viewing the desire as originating from my addiction, not me, and thereby detaching from it, was incredibly helpful to me before I had heard about AVRT and the Big Plan. Then they can learn AVRT properly and REALLY put the problem behind them. |
Thanks for those responses, guys. Good, thoughtful stuff—as usual. |
When hear my AV I just accept whatever and resolve my response to be as minimal as possible. In fact, just simple awareness of my AV is more than enough for me to descriminate between me and my Beast. I wonder how others 'feel' about their Beast. I'm indifferent emotionally, and give the barest intellectual response to my Beast. Meh, its a learned skill, being indifferent, lol. |
..... <cricket>..... <cricket>..... <cricket>.....:jester: |
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