freshstart57

Can we spin this the other way, ashbyee? What if you are walking on sunshine, skipping along, and there is one thing that wants to spoil it, your AV. Think how easy it is becoming for you to give it a flick, and hey presto, we are back on top. THAT is awesome.

Ashbyee, you can look into what they call 'mindfulness', a kind of meditation. It talks about becoming 'the watcher', observing your thoughts as they pass by. It is a very powerful mind tool - it quiets the monkey chatter so that our natural abilities and instincts can get to work, letting us rise above our thoughts and to our full potential. It creates some space around our thoughts somehow and gives us room to move without getting jammed and stuck.

Yes, absolutely, ashbyee, I have. Because you know now that you will never drink again, and you understand how you can make this happen, you never need to fight your AV again. Because it has no power over you, it needn't make you tense or anxious ever again.

Thank you for continuing to post, ashbyee, and for adding to the considerable body of thought in this thread.

Hi, Soberlicious! *waves*

Dalek

Assuming you aren't drunk or hung over, meaning that you aren't under the influence, it doesn't matter when you make a Big Plan. Still, assuming you wanted to wait for a lull in Beast activity, it seems most unlikely from what you say that your Beast is active 24 hours a day. Are you saying that you can't go one single day without drinking, and without being hung over?

Dalek

Easier than you expected once you finally made up your mind?

Dalek

This is recovery shock. AVRT makes the lights go on, and suddenly, you can see the rogue mentality that has been influencing your life. It will pass.

It makes perfect sense, and this is precisely what we do with AVRT. We observe our own thoughts as they come to us.

There is no need to attack your Beast, or to fight with it. AVRT is always passive, since the Beast always makes the first move, and we don't need to "be careful" or "on guard" lest the big bad Beast gets us, either. Once you've made a Big Plan, your job it to sit back and simply watch your own thoughts and feelings, recognizing any that support or suggest the possible future use of alcohol/drugs as the Addictive Voice. This is not difficult to do, since thoughts of using are conspicuous, but it will become easier still over time. When the AV pipes up, don't play tug-of-war with the Beast. Instead, just drop the rope.

Obladi

No, this is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that remorse can keep me sober for a few days. I want to get beyond that period in order to be confident that I am making a long term plan rather than acting out a knee-jerk reaction. I think it does matter when you make a Big Plan. It's a big deal.

Dalek

A large part of the AV's "job", if you will, is to create doubt and uncertainty about one's ability to abstain long term. This is why, with AVRT, we set our confidence level for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, and then recognize all self-doubt as the AV itself.

It is indeed a big deal, and I don't feel it is productive for me to press you to decide at this point, but I will suggest that you go ahead and put a temporary plan in place, what you called a "little plan", and then decide one way or the other. It's up to you how long that temporary plan is for, just as long as it isn't open ended. If you leave it open ended, without a deadline, your AV is just going to keep telling you to put off deciding forever.

This is only a suggestion, based on my understanding of how the AV operates, on my own prior experience with endless procrastination, and on the assumption that you consider your dependence a problem which you want to resolve. You are, of course, free to reject it. I trust that you know what you want from your life far better than I do, and that you will finally resolve your addiction when you see fit to do so.

Obladi

Thank you for that suggestion.

I know intuitively that waiting for the time when I am on my own two firmly sober feet is the right time to decide about the Big Plan. Though I am not drinking, I have not actually made a definable little plan. Should I let it slide too long, this will be the work of the Beast.

I hesitate to mess with "what's working." That part is likely AV.

Really appreciate your thoughtful input, all.

soberlicious

You know it!
Just as with addiction in any form.

It's the moment in the wrestling match (active addiction) when I made up my mind and flipped that b*tch (the beast). Once on top it's a matter of holding out for a short period until the beast taps out. After the tap out, it's over. I stay out of the ring.

Funny thing...I have cigarettes on my night stand.
I go places that are smoky.
I have friends that smoke.
None of it matters.
Tap out. It's over.

I've heard it all. "I'm not like you", "I can't do it", "I need something to help me quit"

and the best one..."you weren't as addicted as I am"...um, hello...I'm 46 years old and I have smoked for thirty years.

It can be done. All excuses are AV.

soberlicious

Fun side note...I have an app on my phone that tracks days. Controversial I know. The beast counts time...agreed. Time is moot; I'm a nonsmoker. I use the app for fun. Nothing more, nothing less. It is pretty cool to me that I can easily afford that half sleeve tattoo I've been wanting in only eight short months by doing nothing other than not giving my money to my addiction. I shared with a friend of mine that I had saved x amount of dollars so far and he said "Wow. That was an expensive way to kill yourself. A bullet is cheaper and faster." LOL. Indeed.
Do you know how many pairs of SHOES I can buy with cigarette money?!
OK that said, I'm not advocating counting time, nor am I discounting it. Those that know me know that I believe abstinence must have no conditions.
BUT the app is cool. haha!

btw...did I mention I will never smoke again and I will never change my mind?

Dalek

Can you define "firmly sober"? What does that mean?

The definition of the Addictive Voice is very precise: "Any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports, or even suggests, the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs, ever."

Putting off quitting for good, or wanting to put off quitting for good, supports, and certainly suggests, the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs. THAT is AV.

Dalek

People tend to have this idea that the longer you've smoked, or the more you've smoked, the worse you'll feel when you quit. However, the longer you've smoked, or the more you've smoked, the more toxic poison you have put into your body, and the worse you presently feel. Therefore, the more you've smoked, or the longer you've smoked, the better you'll feel when you quit.

Obladi

No, I can't. It's not definable. To your point of ensuring there is a timeline - need to define what a "little plan" means. I think it's just what Trimpey suggests. Pick some finite point (when I finish the book the second time, one week from today, once I've been sober 4 days in a row, something...) and then before that time is up, decide.

ReadyAndAble

Man, I so agree with you Dalek. I know you're right.

But I also totally get what Obladi is saying about being on firmer ground in recovery. I initially did it one day at a time, because I didn't know better. Pretty quickly I began to just sort of intuitively disassociate from my feelings. I hadn't even heard of AVRT at that point, much less the Big Plan. For many weeks, "never again" was more of a hope or ideal for me than a solid commitment. I tiptoed up to it.

But I didn't have the benefit of these discussions back then, of searing insights like this:

That right there, Obladi, is why I would love to see you to commit sooner rather than later. Because it makes this all so much easier. Commit is a crappy word. It makes it sound like you're being asked to take monastic vows. When I finally embraced the idea of never, I freed myself. "Never" only looks scary when you're on that side of it.

This is what it was like for me to commit to never drinking again:

ReadyAndAble

Ooops. I said I disassociated from "my feelings". Sloppy language means sloppy thinking. Somebody pass the ammo; I gotta take care of this AV trying to sneak under the perimeter wire...

jaz06

Still waiting for Trimpey's book...we're talking pins & needles here! I've read several posts on here, still trying to grasp the concept. All I know is that the other program(s) just doesn't seem a good fit for me. But I'm desperate for some kind of program...knowing I need the extra help. SR has been a God send, hoping AVRT will add to that.

I do have a question...sorry for the lack of knowledge so far (I'm hoping to catch up with all of you). What is 90/90? Anything else you can offer would be much appreciated.

ReadyAndAble

I think you mean 90 meetings in 90 days? It's an AA thing. AVRT is kind of the opposite in that regard. It's more like it all happens in an instant. One minute you're a drinker, the next you're not. It provides a way of looking at your addiction, and learning how to neutralize it.

Have you taken the AVRT crash course yet? I will PM you with links to keep you moving forward while you await the book...

Veggiejojo

My book has arrived today, I wasn't even sure I needed it, I am now 14 days sober, I did the crash course on my first day or two and found it really useful. I am now very glad I have the book to go through, I am off to Italy in a month and my AV is already planting thoughts about me having proven enough by then to enjoy the wine. This is not helped by my partner suddenly realising I was serious about never drinking again and now saying "you've not really given up? Why - your not an alcoholic!" arrrrggggghhh!!

May be back with questions once I've got stuck into the book,

X

jaz06

Thank you so much, ReadyAndAble! Exactly what I was looking for.

Auvers

I just read the "yes Virginia, there is a cure" link that ReadyandAble posted and I totally get it. Thank you so much for posting the links.

Obladi

Jaz, take the crash course and start in on reading the discussion thread here - it will give you a start to understanding what AVRT is all about and will certainly keep you busy until the book arrives.

As R&A says, it's not At All like the prescriptions offered up by other "programs" It's intuitive. You'll know it when you see it.