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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3

Old 01-08-2012, 08:44 AM
  # 181 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
Reminded me of: "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral mind" by Julian Jaynes. Anyone read it? If not google "bicameralism.". The first 100 pages are especially interesting with several thought experiments that clearly illustrate what "I" isn't.
There are definite parallels, and I have recommended this book elsewhere on this thread for those interested in psychology.

The I/it dichotomy of AVRT® parallels the phenomenon identified by Dr. Jaynes as “consciousness.” Point for point, his observations and descriptions of bicamerality and consciousness match the well-developed AVRT® model with remarkable precision.
________________________________________
Excerpt from "The Triumph of Addiction Recovery in the Breakdown
of the Bicameral, Addictive Voice – or, Who Killed Julian Jaynes?"

Copyright ©2009, Jack Trimpey. All rights reserved.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:14 PM
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Terminally Unique,
Thanks again for the literary suggestions from an earlier post...I am intrigued by AVRT...I've never heard of this recovery method but i am surely going to do my homework on it!
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:53 PM
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Avrtisian,
With all due respect I think you should really re think your dissatisfaction with people who have devoted time and energy to provide a different recovery paradigm...If there is an alternative to the traditional AA approach that doesn't contain enough reverence to god for you, you can't call someone arrogant or disrespectful for not sharing the same belief as you or making their alternative more suitable to you...The fact of the matter is you should be grateful for that alternative or refrain from it all together...Or try to introduce the world to a AA alternative with enough god acknowledging for you and your following...no disrespect intended
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:18 PM
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RE: Religion

Once again, if you have a problem with religion or the "G" word, please take it elsewhere. If you have not done so, please read my previous post on this subject.

RE: Religion —
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:22 PM
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I got around to the idea of 'now' when I needed to pick a moment to quit, at some point or other. Would it be different or easier tomorrow or the day after that? It was more comfortable to think about it happening in the future (placating the AV), but I realized that at that future time, in my mind it still be 'now'. If 'now' was the only time I could do stop, why not 'right now'?

Now is the only point in time where things can happen, where things can change. So, I decided that during any present time, I won't drink. Of course, I can choose not to pick up as I write this, just as I can choose not to pick up at any other time. There you have it. Sig file attached for reference.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Of course, I can choose not to pick up as I write this, just as I can choose not to pick up at any other time.
Not to nitpick, freshstart57, but if you have truly made an AVRT-style Big Plan, you have effectively decided never to choose to drink. "I choose not to drink today" is not AVRT, since the Big Plan removes that option entirely. With a Big Plan in place, you no longer have a choice.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:55 PM
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I most decidedly did not say that 'I choose not to drink today'. Today has a date, a place on the calendar. Tomorrow, as they say, is another day, and so that does not work for a Big Plan.

I understand that A Big Plan consists of making that commitment outside and apart from time, but there is more than one way to phrase this promise. Since I like the idea of mindfulness and being present, my plan consists of a commitment to never drink during the now. Does this make more sense?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
I understand that A Big Plan consists of making that commitment outside and apart from time, but there is more than one way to phrase this promise. Since I like the idea of mindfulness and being present, my plan consists of a commitment to never drink during the now. Does this make more sense?
Yes, and you are correct that there is more than one way to phrase it, which is why I think the book presents both options. Even with "I never now drink," though, you have also decided never to choose to drink. "I choose not to drink now" would not be in the spirit of a solid Big Plan, either.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:40 PM
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I went to the RR website earlier and did the crash course in AVRT...WOW what an eye opener,I mean the info was very basic and consisted of things you would think every person with a drug or alcohol problem would not have to be taught to think of. I guess in a society that teaches people that addiction is a disease for which there is no cure but only coping methods,it makes sense that myself and others have not acted on or thought of the basic info contained in the AVRT crash course.I also think the AVRT approach teaches more personal accountability then traditional methods of recovery. The problems we suffered and may still be suffering from were self induced and it makes sense to me that if we learn the techniques for recognizing the AV(the beast) we will be well prepared to kill it...good luck to all
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kingman063 View Post
I went to the RR website earlier and did the crash course in AVRT...WOW what an eye opener, I mean the info was very basic and consisted of things you would think every person with a drug or alcohol problem would not have to be taught to think of.
AVRT is essentially "old school" recovery, hearkening back to the bad old days prior to the development of recovery groups or addiction treatment. People have been figuring it out on their own since they first became addicted, but apparently, nobody thought to write it down. Jack Trimpey figured out a rudimentary form of AVRT out of necessity, using it on his own addiction, but that alone did not give him the full picture.

His advantage was in having worked within the social service system with addicted people for a couple of decades, and later with Rational Recovery, which allowed him to refine AVRT above and beyond his own initial understanding. He credits his wife, Lois, with being the inspiration for RR, and she has been involved with RR since the beginning. Like many developments, I suppose things were just ripe for it, and the appropriate people came along to see it through.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:31 AM
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I'm so thankful for this site and this thread

It seems that with the dominance of AA and 12 step recovery if you even mention the possibility of their being another way you are told you're doomed to fail!

Thanks Terminally Unique for your private message - I've been reading all the links you sent and tried to send you two reply messages but I dont think they've sent because when I check my sent box nothing is in there? Perhaps I dont have authority to send PM messages yet?

My experience so far - I made a big plan yesterday and even though I dont have the book yet (I live in New Zealand, ordered from Amazon but not scheduled to arrive until the 3rd of Feb) I did the crash course and I will never now drink and I will never change my mind. I like never now drink rather than never drink again (even though I know they are the same) because I like thinking about it in the now as well as the never

This has given me so much hope and certainty that AA never did. Even yesterday morning in my desperate depression talking to women in the fellowsihp (bless them) who had 25 years sober could give me no concrete reassurance of what I HAD to do to get sober? Keep going to meetings, pray to God in the morning, wait for the miracle to happen - which made me more and more anxious - how long will this alcoholic torture go on for??

It seemed by the afternoon/night having read and read on here and taken the crash course my anxiety had lifted and I felt quiety confident. RR has given me back something that I feel sittinging in a room labelling myself with a disease that I was powerless over took away from me.

I'm watching my beast and its funny you know how it crops up and when it crops up. I got one doozy last night "what if your life depended on taking a drink what if you HAD to either have a drink or be killed?? would you do it then and then if you DID would the method still work AFTER you'd done that? oh well I guess AA would still be there for you then"

I will say right now that I'm a Christian - so on the surface of it AA seemed an appropriate fit in some ways.

But a few things never sat right with me and one of these things was beautifully pointed out in an ealier post by someone else.

-1) Drunkeness or the excessive use of alcohol is clearly pointed out in the bible as a sin just like fits of rage, hatred etc - acts of the sinful nature (BEAST) and something that God clearly wants us to exert some kind of control over and to rather live in the spirt. If we have a disease and are powerless then there is no personal responsibility and it is not OUR fault.
- 2) There are plenty of times in the bible where people have been healed of an affliction but there is nowhere where someone is told You will have this for the rest of your life and you are just one drink, action etc away from being a hopeless wreck again. God says you are healed, stand up and know you areh healed!

I know not everyone on here subscribes to Christianity or God at all but I wanted to share my processing all of this with you guys so you can see how this program is very much compatible for a person like me who does have faith and wants to be empowered.

I was desperate yesterday and believe God sent me to the RR website and to all of you
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:48 AM
  # 192 (permalink)  
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It's really too bad that one has to wait that length of time for the book. Couldn't the author work with Amazon so that those committed to buying the book be allowed a Kindle-ready download (which also has a Kindle for PC app) or in a downloaded e-book?

When I go in to Amazon, there's a little link saying, "Would you like to see this book on Kindle". Start clicking on it. Who knows if it will work, but what the hell....

If there is one thing I know about alcoholics - they hate to wait!
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:53 AM
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I just ordered Rational Recovery: The New Cure. Has anyone gotten The Art of AVRT that is sold on the RR website? I'm wondering if it has new info on how to use AVRT.

I had been put off by the term 'beast', so I avoided learning more about RR. But since I kept reading about RR here, I decided to look at it more. I like the concept a lot. I am pondering what term to substitute 'beast' with. I think he means the limbic brain (mid-brain). It seems like I could use 'limbic brain' or AV as a substitute word for beast. Does anyone else use another term?

Thanks to those of you who posted about RR on this thread and in the other forums here on SR. It was what you all wrote that got me curious again about RR.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:03 PM
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Peta- Feb 3rd sucks! Does it matter if you buy it used versus new? I have canceled an amazon order and was surprised at how easy it was to cancel (before the item was shipped). Is the 'Look inside this book' function available in NZ? I am surprised at how much of the book I can read for free on the amazon website with the 'look inside this book' feature. (I realize you probably already did this if it is available there.) (PS- thanks for posting in the forum alcoholism a few days ago. It was your thread that led me to look at RR yesterday.)
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:48 PM
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Just a quick note of thanks for this thread. I've been unable, up to this point, to sustain any long term non-drinking. I just ordered the book, and have begun readling the other threads on this topic.

This approach clearly appeals to me, and although I'm sure once I read the book I'll be better able to comment and understand, the information here has been a huge help already.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by oak View Post
I just ordered Rational Recovery: The New Cure. Has anyone gotten The Art of AVRT that is sold on the RR website? I'm wondering if it has new info on how to use AVRT.

I had been put off by the term 'beast', so I avoided learning more about RR. But since I kept reading about RR here, I decided to look at it more. I like the concept a lot. I am pondering what term to substitute 'beast' with. I think he means the limbic brain (mid-brain). It seems like I could use 'limbic brain' or AV as a substitute word for beast. Does anyone else use another term?

Thanks to those of you who posted about RR on this thread and in the other forums here on SR. It was what you all wrote that got me curious again about RR.
Hi Oak,

I have been an Eckhart Tolle fan for quite some time, and before I found AVRT I was fascinated (and still am) by the concept of the "pain body". To me, the imagery is very Beast-like. However, in Tolle's rendition, the "pain body" seems to be always a dense, dark part of our ego that is active in varying degrees in different people. I see the Beast as somewhat more benign, just a dumb (mute) part of ourselves that consists only of basal instincts and emotions, which need not be particularly negative.

The "pain body" in one individual is drawn to that of another individual's, or even a collective of individuals. A the collective "pain body" of multiple individuals is capable of atrocities such as hate crimes, extreme prejudice, and other societal ills.

If you are interested in the concept of the "pain body", Tolle discusses it in all of his books I have read. My favorite one is his first (I think), "A New Earth", which is an easy and inexpensive Amazon purchase. The audio version is also available free on line.

FT
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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Failed Taper, I am currently listening to "A New Earth" on a library cd copy. I like it a lot. Where did you fine the free copy online?
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Peta View Post
Thanks Terminally Unique for your private message - I've been reading all the links you sent and tried to send you two reply messages but I dont think they've sent because when I check my sent box nothing is in there?
You're quite welcome, Peta. I did get your message, and I just responded to it, so check your inbox.

Originally Posted by Peta View Post
I know not everyone on here subscribes to Christianity or God at all but I wanted to share my processing all of this with you guys so you can see how this program is very much compatible for a person like me who does have faith and wants to be empowered.
I appreciate you posting this, since I don't want any religious members of Sober Recovery to feel that AVRT is only for secularists, and I hope that they feel welcome to join in the discussion. Although I myself am atheist, I have a peculiar interest in comparative religion, so I do know that AVRT is indeed compatible with Christianity. I have not posted them on this thread, since they would probably be better suited for the "Christians in Recovery" sub-forum, but I have some selected Scriptures which are related to AVRT if you are interested.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:01 PM
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Try this link for free audio:

Eckhart Tolle + A New Earth + : +Alx n2thelite : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:41 PM
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I am further along in the RR in the book and between this thread and the book I am learning a lot. I notice a lot of beast activity in the evenings. Specifically when I am bored and lonely and just plain don't know what to do with my time. My question is .....Is my beast creating the lonely feelings, or are these lonely, bored feelings genuinely "Mine" and the beast is just exploiting them to try and get me to get buzzed? I know that AVRT isn't meant to fix any other issues we have, it's only meant to get us to abstain. Once we are abstinent, we can then deal with other issues. The loneliness issue is a tough one to distinguish for me.

BTW, thanks FT.
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