lostbutterfly

I do wonder if the so-called "addictive personality" is just referring to people whose mid-brains are running amok and calling all the shots. Mine certainly was, in more aspects than just alcohol and opiates.

It was pretty much deciding everything for me without me knowing and I have always considered myself an undisciplined person. Since I've learnt AVRT, with reference to stopping drink and drugs, I have found it useful in other aspects of my life, like diet, exercise and procrastination!!

soberlicious

I think so...the lack of awareness I had before is why I had a reversal of intent many years ago (after 10 years of not drinking). I just thought all the thoughts/behaviors etc were ME. It was when I started to say, "this just isn't me...this isn't who I am, this isn't who I was meant to be", then I began to seperate myself from this other drive. I did this before learning about AVRT, but it helps to learn/read more about it even though I have been a non-drinker for some time now because I know that I had a reversal before, so the more I learn and the better I know myself and my beast the stronger I am. I am no longer scared...I know who is who, their roles, and who is in charge. "Otherizing" has helped me immensely...

The whole not battling part is huge for me. It creates such a calm to acknowledge this part of me, not fear it. After all, that primal part of the brain is necessary...it's job is to create fear in the face of danger and react quickly to save us. But it's a double-edged sword because the fear and the following actions are not always warranted, logical, or necessary and taking those actions can create very very bad stuff for us. What the primal brain views as a good idea sometimes is and sometimes isn't (run when you see a bear coming toward you=good idea, drink when you are stressed=bad idea). My beast brain was in charge all the time, it was not just related to drinking/drugs...it was also my constant knee jerk reactions, defensiveness, rage, and so forth in response to every day stimuli. I had not learned to descern when the fear and anger was necessary to drive my actions toward a positive outcome, and when it was irrational and would create more problems than I already had. Everything was imminent danger to me and I behaved accordingly. In an effort to balance this, I underreacted for a period of time as well, which can create it's own set of probems.

So all that said, I respect my minbrain and it's job. Trying to rid myself of it completely would be impossibe and absurd...it's just not smart enough to be in charge.

oh and I don't drink. Ever.

FT

I like that, soberlicious.

Yes, the midbrain is there for a purpose. The underlying urges and instincts have their bases in our survival. Many of those survival urges and instincts have been subverted by modern human existence, genetically engineered pharmaceuticals, foods, and other environmental changes that our midbrain is not designed to cope with. Hence, malnutrition even in an otherwise abundant society, obesity, addiction, etc.

With reasoning in the driver seat and the midbrain as my co-pilot, I drove my plane straight into plenty of misguided "adventures". Had to kick that sucker OUT. Of course, he's hunkered down behind the seats still, like a conjoined twin I know would kill me if the tie were severed entirely. Geez, do I love ridiculous analogies or what.

FT

Terminally Unique

AVRT is not a panacea, but I have been able to use the insight from the structural model for other things, notably fear. Fear certainly has its benefits for survival, but in our modern world, is often misdirected. For example, if I were going to a job interview, I might get nervous even before it starts, which is not helpful. Once I note that it is my midbrain that is incorrectly viewing the situation as dangerous and generating fear, I can attribute such emotions to IT, not me, and thereby detach and get on with the task at hand.

NewWay

This is a response regarding whether or not AVRT requires a Big Plan. I think it does, but I did find this interesting paragraph in RR:TNC on page 141:

"Ironically, the Big Plan of Rational Recovery is optional. AVRTechs (trained instructors ar our RR Centers) and RR Coordinators are cautioned to avoid advising participants to abstain or to suggest that not having a Big Plan is a prediction of troubles. If a plan for permanent abstinence does not come from one's own intelligence, as a personal decision, then it will not come at all. Drinking or using is a personal matter, not one to turn over to others, no matter how well meaning, spiritual, rational, authoritative, official, credentialed, or competent they may be."

Now this passage could be due to that fact that the RR: TNC was written back in 1996, or just that Trimpey wants to emphasize that a Big Plan can only be undertaken by you under your own free will in order for it to work. I don't think the RR centers exist anymore, but Trimpey does have his own class you can attend.

This paragraph does come at the end of a section called, "The Only Time is Now" which explains that in AVRT, times does not exist. Trimpey explains that. "Now is all there is. The future is only a possibility, but even then, it will be now" so the phrase, "I will never now drink is perfectly acceptable in AVRT (140).

The idea of the "never-ending now" does make the Big Plan easier to digest.

Terminally Unique

I believe in your capacity to remain a non-drinker forever, freethinking, even if others do not.

Terminally Unique

NewWay,

This is because AVRT itself is optional, and cannot be forced on anyone. People are free to hold themselves to a higher personal standard, or not. However, the Addictive Voice can be logically understood as anything that contradicts a plan for permanent, unconditional abstinence.

From the RR web site:

DrivenHeart85

I sure hope one day I can use AVRT to get myself to go to the gym 6 days a week. I always have thoughts in a similar manner to drinking that encourage me to laziness instead. "I'm too tired." or "I'm too busy.". Seems like another part of my mind is gaining dominance in that aspect too that needs to be put into check.

lostbutterfly

I guess conserving energy used to be a useful survival tool in the old days!
Do you know, I can't remember what it was like to drink every night and why on earth I did it for so long.

freethinking

I definitely use AVRT for my negative thinking. I tend to ruminate over things that are negative and unimportant (for example, I cannot stand my stepmother and will dwell on things she's done WAY in the past). There's another "beast" in me that wants to keep that "pain body" (Tolle!) alive and thriving and so if there is nothing currently wrong in my life, it'll try and drag up events from the past for me to dwell on and get angry over. It's been really helpful for me to separate myself from these thoughts, and recognize then as part of another "beast". In doing so, I have unintentionally become very grateful for what is good in my life.

soberlicious

Yes! This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

However, without the midbrain I'd be waving and smiling at a car careening toward me rather than jump out of the way. I just had to learn that everything is not a car careening toward me...in fact, almost nothing is. Fear drove my whole being for so long. It manifested in myriad ways...some behaviors certainly didn't look like fear but that's what was behind almost everything I did. TU is right...misguided fear will sabbotage every single time.
The beast loves fear LOL

kanamit

Definitely your Beast is lazy. It's harder to use AVRT on food and exercise though as it's not as black and white as not doing something.

I use the shifting technique when it comes to food. Any given meal can be healthy or not. By picturing the body trying to digest processed, salty, high fat foods and that tired feeling you get from refined carbs and then shifting to a colourful unprocessed plant-based meal and imagining the body digesting it with ease and lapping up all the nutrients, it soon becomes very easy to eat well.

It's not all or nothing though as sometimes (if you're at friends' houses for dinner for example) you can indulge in something different.

Incidentally, I heard a Doctor on the radio discuss a technique to treat panic attacks and it really was a form of AVRT. He even said you tell yourself, "That was a panic attack," as Jack Trimpey advises with vertigo.

It's everywhere once you know about it—and very powerful!

Thrifty

I'm new to avrt. I haven't gotten the book yet but ordered it. I am having trouble developing a person for my beast. I want to be able to envision something talking to the real me and my image of it keeps changing. What are some images some of you use and how are they working for you?

FT

Hi Thrifty and welcome!

The Beast is just your basal urges and emotions, and your AV (Addictive Voice) is his/her mouthpiece or agent.

I don't use a persona for my addictive voice. Mine is just an omniscient sort of echo that I hear in the background and observe as noise. If you try to force it to go away, it just gets louder, so let it be. Let it talk all it wants. It doesn't matter to you. Eventually, it gives up, but it never goes away. Nor do you want it to. It's part of you, and it's normal.

Other posters here do personify their AV, and even their Beast. The Beast isn't "bad" per se, it just may want illogical things. Your addiction lives there, and so do things like your sex drive, your animalistic wants and needs that may or may not be valid.

I am not an AVRT spokesperson, so it would be better to get input from Terminally Unique, who runs this thread. Others may pipe in to give you some ideas. For example, one poster likes to think of her Beast as some horrid, disgusting, dirty fat pig, with rollers on and a cigarette hanging out the side of her mouth -- or something like that, ha!

Gather some thoughts on this. Read all the way through this thread, AND the thread that preceded it. There's lots of good thoughts on here!

And welcome! This is the way I quit over 20 years ago, and it is the way I live my life now. I love this thread. This concept is not new, and it was not "named" at the time when I quit, but the way it works is the same. This method is true self empowerment and validation of yourself as the strong, powerful person you really are. If you don't feel that way yet, you will.

Recovery with an attitude is how I look at it. I have attitude for sure, in lots of ways, and certainly in this way.

Much love, and much luck!

FT

Terminally Unique

The Beast of AVRT is just the desire to get drunk/high, and I haven't ever been able to truly personify it. The AV itself is amorphous, and appears in several forms, changing its tune along the way. I usually refer to the Beast as IT, and simply envision a lump below the cerebral cortex. I may, however, use clever pictures on here because I enjoy metaphors.

kanamit

Ive found a free one hour radio show online featuring Jack Trimpey. Can I post the link? If not PM and I'll send you it. It's very interesting but you need to know AVRT to understand it.

Thrifty

Kanamit, I listened to the one hour broadcast with Jack Trimpey. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I thought he would talk more about avrt than he did but it seemed like the host and the caller that was on diverted the conversation a little bit. What I found interesting was that he seemed to equate stating that you never have a desire to drink with being the av. I didn't quite get that. Also, he brought up the morality issue of drinking and by thinking of it as bad as say, robbing a bank. So if you think it's immoral you won't do it. Like I said previously, I am still waiting for my book to arrive so I think these issues will become clearer when I finally get to read it. I know there was mention on here about the morals, but I can't find the post now.

kanamit

I guess drinking is as immoral as robbing an elderly person or stealing from a supermarket if once you drink you get abusive, black out, etc.

I personally have struggled to view drinking as something so outrageous as I had it under control to a degree. However, drinking never made me a better person and heavily interfered with my other interests and goals in life, therefore I made a Big Plan based on sound judgement.

I really enjoyed the Jack Trimpey interview, particularly him asking the caller that elusive question, 'What is your plan for the future use of alcohol/drugs?'

Drala

This is very interesting. I keep trying AA but I can't get behind it. I was sober for 10 years and then started up again due to (I thought) stress. I simply stopped one day and never counted days or had an anniversary or any of that. So I again stopped on 12/17/11 and visited the AVRT today and made my Big Plan. This makes a ton more sense to me than AA so thanks for this thread.

freethinking

Hmmm, I don't think an image really comes to my mind when I do this. But, in all my years in another program, it never occurred to me to use a dissociative technique like this and for me it is nothing short of brilliant.