freethinking

Dylan, I don't subscribe wholly to AVRT - but the base idea of recognizing the AV I find extremely helpful.

I have mentioned here before that, for example, I have not made a Big Plan and don't intend to. Yet, on the other hand, I find extreme polarization when it comes to "the beast" tremendously helpful in not drinking....that part I like about AVRT.

You don't have to believe everything, and it's good to question things. At least as far as I am concerned, take what you want and leave the rest behind. It works for me.

FT

I agree April, I mean TU, no I mean April, no I mean.... never mind!

Lots of good posting going on here!

Seriously though, April, your point is well taken. I talked AROUND drinking for many years before I realized what I was doing. I even "succeeded" at not drinking few times, for short bursts, but never took up the persona of a non drinker until I realized that doing that was not just PART of the game, it WAS the game.

Before that, I had considered non drinkers to be "teetotallers", considering them some kind of prudes who either "could not hold their liquor" or just didn't get it that some of us "needed" to drink. Of course, isn't that what Gary Cooper and Humphrey Bogart taught us (plus John Wayne -- don't forget John Wayne!). Ha!

Geez, a whole generation+ of us grew up with that mentality in our face, so is it any wonder we all drank without a second thought? And yet, I still contend that drinking in and of itself is not "bad". With all my first attempts at quitting, I DID view it as bad, in the misconception that telling myself that would make me stop.

Substance abuse is interesting that way. Demonizing "the stuff", whatever it is, never has worked on us as a society to force us to stop abusing it, be it alcohol, drugs, gambling, even obesity. It is my opinion that categorizing these things as diseases is not going to work either, whether or not that is true (which debate I do not want to begin over again here). It doesn't really even matter if "it" is bad or is a disease. The subset of users who chooses to view "it" from a different angle and self-select ourselves OUT of the main set are the ones with the highest likelihood of leaving "it" behind.

lostbutterfly

I am half way through reading RR for the second time in a month, and it has been worth doing. My beast is far more upset about the opiates than the alcohol. But instead of feeling like I am being overwhelmed by panic and anxiety, I feel like I am watching the beast bouncing against the walls, which is better.

Thrifty

Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself I am new and this is my first post. I stumbled upon this thread yesterday while I was googling Rational Recovery. The discussion is amazing and so helpful.

I got interested in RR since obviously I am trying to beat this thing once and for all. I have been reading so many books on many different topics and was interested how the RR model is similar to Ekhart Tolle's views on addiction. Basically, Tolle says the beast is a primitive energy field that does whatever it can to survive, ie talk you into drinking in a million different ways.

He also says you need to become aware of it talking to you and separate from it completely. That really rang a bell for me.

I have just started reading through the posts from the first part of the discussion so I need some time to catch up. I have read the online AVRT crash course and have had some aha moments. I will order the book and start with that as well. I would like the to know what the links TU talked about are, but I can't pm you to ask for them until I have 5 posts. So if I don't hear from you, you will hear from me soon. I'd better get busy reading.
You, you will hear from me soon. I am so hopeful!

FT

Hi Thrifty,

I'm sure TU will be sending you a PM with the links shortly. You can also visit his personal page.

Welcome here!!!! It is very possible to become a non-drinker and/or non-substance-abuser with this method.

I, too, love Tolle. I find his worldview to be very compatible with AVRT. I began reading Tolle a few years ago, and I only recently found AVRT, but I used something very similar to AVRT when I quit drinking over 20 years ago.

Good luck, and welcome again.

FT

DrivenHeart85

Welcome Thrifty! I'm an Eckhart Tolle lover too! I have both The Power of Now and A New Earth...but have only managed to read a portion of the way into both due to time constraints, but with my upcoming ELEVEN DAYS off (kinda excited) I'll be able to continue reading. Where did you find the addiction info that you referenced above? I only found one small paragraph once about addiction and there are a lot of similarities in the split thinking he talks about and in AVRT. Especially in the form of watching your thoughts...not judging them but just being conscious of them.

But anyway, thanks for posting and welcome to the thread.

FT

Hi DrivenHeart85,

Look at the sections on "the pain body" in Tolle's work.

FT

Thrifty

A long-standing compulsive behavior pattern may be called an addiction, and an addiction lives inside you as a quasi-entity or sub personality, an energy field that periodically takes you over completely. It even takes over your mind, the voice in your head, which then becomes the voice of the addiction. It might be saying, “You’ve had a rough day. You deserve a treat. Why deny yourself the only pleasure that is left in your life?” And so, if you are identified with the internal voice due to lack of awareness, you find yourself walking to the fridge and reaching for that rich chocolate cake. At other times, the addiction may bypass the thinking mind completely and you suddenly find yourself puffing a cigarette or holding a drink. “How did that get into my hand?” Taking the cigarette out of the packet and lighting it, or pouring yourself a drink were actions performed in complete unconsciousness.

If you have a compulsive behavior pattern such as smoking, overeating, drinking, TV watching, Internet addiction, or whatever it may be, this is what you can do: When you notice the compulsive need arising in you, stop and take three conscious breaths. This generates awareness. Then for a few minutes be aware of the compulsive urge itself as an energy field inside you. Consciously feel that need to physically or mentally ingest or consume a certain substance or the desire to act out some form of compulsive behavior. Then take a few more conscious breaths. After that you may find that the compulsive urge has disappeared – for the time being. Or you may find that it still overpowers you, and you cannot help but indulge or act it out again. Don’t make it into a problem. Make the addiction part of your awareness practice in the way described above. As awareness grows, addictive patterns will weaken and eventually dissolve. Remember, however to catch any thoughts that justify the addictive behavior, sometimes with clever arguments, as they arise in your mind. Ask yourself, Who is talking here? And you will realize the addiction is talking. As long as you know that, as long as you’re present as the observer of your mind, it is less likely to trick you into doing what it wants.

Thrifty

The above exerpt is from pg 246 "a New Earth" by Ekhart Tolle. I still need to learn how to
Post!

FT

You're doing great.

lostbutterfly

Thankyou Thrifty and welcome. It is a wonderful technique to learn. If we are aware of our thoughts, then we don't have to BE our thoughts.

soberlicious

So much overlapping with AVRT, Tolle, and buddhist thought/practice...and so many other schools of thought I'm sure. It's always interesting to me when I see the same concepts imbedded in what sometimes seem to be very different philosophies. Maybe it's just because these "truths" have worked for me/make sense to me so the parallels jump out...

Terminally Unique

Welcome. That is a very good attitude, Thrifty, and I have full faith in your capacity to indeed beat this thing once and for all. As you read through the materials, though, you'll learn that AVRT is not about trying to quit, but rather about actually quitting. I sent you some links via PM, but you'll still want to read "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" for a more comprehensive overview of AVRT. I look forward to your input.

freethinking

Lol, wait a minute TU - are you saying with no Big Plan there is no AVRT?

FT

Freethinking,

I think TU was quoting out of Jack Trimpey's book.

That said, think about that question?

Substitute "intention to abstain", or some other such phrase of your liking for "Big Plan", and of course, there is no AVRT without it.

That's like saying, "without Jesus, there would be no Christianity," and then questioning the logic of the utterance.

The "Big Plan" isn't a banner, an announcement, a proclamation, or anything all that fancy -- it is just a personal commitment, which really requires nothing more than a thought, albeit a powerful one.

So, I'm not sure what the point is of taking issue with the Trimpey quote. Does it surprise you?

Or maybe I'm just stupid dumb wrong about how I interpret it.

FT

DrivenHeart85

I wonder if you could substitute a Big Plan with saying you are now a non-drinker? Maybe that would be like saying you "never now drink"? Or maybe not, seems it's good to tell your Beast never again in order to strengthen your conviction if need be...

FT

Well, that's pretty much my whole Big Plan all in one little phrase.

FT

Terminally Unique

FT,

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that even Trimpey would consider your decision to be a non-drinker to contradict AVRT. He has previously written about abstinent being a character trait within AVRT, as opposed to a temporary, transient state. I would say that correlates with your view of yourself as a non-drinker. Also, by definition, someone who has made a Big Plan is necessarily a non-drinker.

Terminally Unique

That came from "The Art of AVRT," and the emphasis is in the original. Similar statements are made in "RR: TNC," in the Journal of Rational Recovery, and at the RR web site.

freethinking

I do consider myself a non-drinker. It's a bit different from the other times I had stopped drinking because when i would say no to a drink, there would be some trepidation there. There's a different feeling there now when I turn down drinks - sort of like it's just a fact, not a debate any longer.