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Bear with me, folks. A further explaination...

Old 03-29-2009, 07:08 AM
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Bear with me, folks. A further explaination...

Bam’s enormous disclaimer: Please, folks. This is my very personal experience and my experience alone. My intent is not to bash anyone’s beliefs or to ridicule. Please do not take it that way.



I am an atheist--I used to be a Christian.

I am also a lesbian.



The bible that was given to me in my youth condemns gays and lesbians to hell for all eternity.



Even though I was in denial about my lesbianism when I was little, I knew. I knew from a young age that I was into girls big time, but I wadded up my true feelings and hid them away because I was scared, scared to burn in hell forever for simply being myself. And many around me believed that “homosexuals” burn in hell, too, although they didn’t know about me. What would they think? And still I went to church…I believed in God and I was scared that God would throw me to the fires.

I willed myself to be straight.

I willed “crushes” on boys.

It didn’t work.


I’m still afraid after all these years. Not of hell, but of people, and the damage that can be done with a few words in a book.

What’s the point of all of this? I see people all the time saying that one doesn’t need to believe in a god in order to do AA. Make whatever you want your higher power.

I can’t do that. And I mean it. The first time I read the steps, the fear came back. It was absolutely overwhelming. I resent the implication that I’m not having an open mind enough about this simply because I don't believe in a god. The words "higher power" will always mean a powerful god to me.

I’m hoping folks can understand where I’m coming from. Some of the others here have different stories to tell--they have their own reasons for what it is they do or don’t do. I want to make it clear I am NOT speaking for anyone except for myself. Everyone needs to find his or her way, and I’m working on finding my own.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Everyone needs to find his or her way, and Iím working on finding my own.
Bam, find your way. It's more than okay. I don't know about anyone else, but I accept everything about you, just the way you are. Your voice is just as important as anyone's. It's a big world with many paths to the same destination.

Like you, I have to find my own way, too. I think that's true for all of us.

It's just nice when we can travel a bit together sometimes.

Wishing you every happiness,

:ghug3

Donna
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:21 AM
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Bam, I'm gay too.. and I was raised in a religious household. I can't begin to think of coming out to certain people in my family and that causes me a lot of stress. When I first figured out I liked guys I was a young teen and still Muslim I so desperately wanted to somehow reconcile what the Quran said about homosexuality with how I felt about it.. make it somehow ok.. but any attempts I made at showing people in the religious community my interpretation of those passages were met with disdain and questions about my sexuality. And it eventually dawned on me religion is obsessed with sex and controlling sex based on arbitrary gender roles, so had I ask myself why I was valuing bigotry at all. I definately have major issues with sex today and although I don't blame religion for it it certainly didn't help.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:23 AM
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Bam.....hey girl!

It really is ok you know...you can walk your own path in recovery...in truth we all do

I just want to support people on whatever path they are on (hug)
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:30 AM
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Thanks for sharing that Bam. I for one am here to support everyone in their recovery efforts regardless of what method you use.
I have my own method also, which is unique for me and I have admiration for people that are carving their own path.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:31 AM
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My first major OCD obsession was that I was gay. It's a common one, and I'm sure prejudice in our society has a lot to do with that.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:36 AM
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I understand that you feel some pressure to do AA Bam, I feel it myself BUT you don't have to do AA.

Some AA types here are a little guilty of forgetting the eleventh tradition "Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion", I found this quote here that I think explains it...
When some of us first recovered, we were shocked at our own success stories. Previously hopeless, we found a method that worked for us where all else had failed. It was the last resort in a life-and-death situation, and it worked. Some of us promptly marched off and told anyone who would listen that this was the only way, the best way, the real way to recover. This was a mistake. It antagonized people, and it was just plain untrue. We have no monopoly on god or recovery; we merely have an approached that worked for us.
Quote from Who are the Muckers in AA and CA?

But that doesn't mean you have to listen to those people or feel pressured by them.

I think some of us (myself included) see the secular forum as the non-AA forum (which it kinda is) but we go too far when we define ourselves only by that which we do not want

Don't want AA? Fine! After realising that we have to set about finding what we want, how we plan to recover. I am in the process of developing my own plan and I know you are too Bam.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:51 AM
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Bam~ Hugs to you my Friend :ghug3 You know, I don't do AA or follow any specific program. I also believe there is a God. HOWEVER my views are that we are all equal, whether you are gay or straight, no matter what race. IMO as long as you don't harm others, why does it even matter? I believe in being a good person, I believe in being there for each other, and I believe in loving one another. Honesty, compassion, love, those are the things that matter. I have Friends that are Mormon, Catholic, and Atheists. Their common thread is that they are all good people, who bring joy to my life and are there when I need them. To ME that is what matters, who you are at heart~

Everyone needs to find their own way and do what's best for them. Just keep taking it day by day, do the best you can, and lean on those who care about you for support =)
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:01 AM
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I've always heard "bible-thumpers" say things like "homesexuality is wrong it says so in the bible" but I could never find anything in the bible that said that; and even if the bible did say that well the bible was written by men-human men thousands of years ago. I truly believe that we are ALL equal regardless of gender/race/sexuality/religion/no matter what. You are unique, you are special.
AA didn't work for me largely because it felt like a "cult", organized realigions often feel the same to me (I was raised Catholic) and I've never been the type of person to "follow the leader". I think we should all do our own thing, whether in our sobriety or sexuality or any other aspect of our lives and feel GOOD about it!

J
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:57 AM
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((((Bam))))

I'm agnostic, a lesbian, and attend AA. I was lucky to find a group with a mix of people some of whom are in the same boat as me in lots of ways.

You don't have to do AA. It's not the only way by far. But, don't feel like you can't do AA because of your religious beliefs or that your a lesbian.

You'll find your path and it will be ok.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:57 AM
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Bam, no wonder I thought you were a dude. LOL. I (heart) lesbians. Some of my best fishing buddies have been lesbians.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:05 PM
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Love is love, pain is pain, regardless of your race, sexual orientation or anything else! We are all humans and humans love and feel pain and emotions! Bam, you find your way to heal no matter what anyone else says! Your happiness or pain is no differnet than mine or anyone elses- no matter what we believe in! Hang in there and we are here for you on this site without any discrimination! I know at least I am!
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by windysan View Post
Bam, no wonder I thought you were a dude. LOL. I (heart) lesbians. Some of my best fishing buddies have been lesbians.

Windy, that's twice today you made me laugh.


I haven't been fishing in over 15 years, but I'd go with you.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:11 PM
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Windy's a funny chick. Yup.


I like good smelling lotion and makeup and my curling iron.
Go figure.

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Old 03-31-2009, 12:15 PM
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by windysan View Post
Bam, no wonder I thought you were a dude.
To be fair the tag line under her name is, "Watch out... it'll fool ya!"



I thought, "You know, there's a perfect song for this place. How does it go? It starts with some nice piano music... 'Makin' your way in the world today takes everything you've got, Takin' a break from all your worries sure would help a lot...'" And then I realized that particular theme song might not quite belong here. Hmpf!

Love ya, Bam. You will find your way.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:27 PM
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(((Bam)))

I was a christian too at one point - worst thing I ever did. Truth is, Jesus WAS a liberal and had I known him, I am sure things would have been fine. What has been done in the name of this religion is pathetic.

Thank you so much for sharing your reality. I am a straight person, but can appreciate that at times it is tough. Minorities are, well, always in the minority.

At any rate, I do so appreciate your voice here and don't ever leave! You just keep speaking your voice and what you need to and we'll all be here to support Bam!

Oh, and one more thing to add...you're not in the cyber Bible Belt, as long as you are in Secularville

Last edited by Katie09; 03-31-2009 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:40 PM
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According to some ***** snake-handling types J-Dawg turned water into Welch's Grape Soda.

I say BS !!! I say it was WINE !
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:12 PM
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I spent most of my teens and early twenties trying to force myself to believe Christianity is where it's at. No dice. And even worse than trying to believe what the Bible says was trying to believe what some Christians told me.

I'm your standard-issue straight, white, suburban twenty-something. But... to be molded into something you aren't is never a comfortable or peaceful situation. Keep posting, because you've posted things I've thought and decided I wasn't brave enough to post.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:36 PM
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Just a little about me so that you know where I'm coming from. I went to high school in a small town in the "Bible Belt." I was so narrow-minded and bigoted against anyone who was different, my world was pretty small. When I was a sophomore in high school, this guy moved to town. He was different, and in our ignorance we labeled him a "fag." I know this term is very offensive, but please know that I am not here to offend anyone. It was simply what we labeled this guy because he was different. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I don't believe that he was gay. We made his life hell, and sadly I was right in the thick of it. It is something I deeply regret and definitely am not proud of.

Most of you know I'm an AA'er and I am not going to waste your time defending AA, but the AA book says something about we are people who normally wouldn't mix. I hang with people today that I definitely wouldn't have drank with. Hell, I hang with people that I would not have had anything to do with when I first got sober.

I was a logger in a small logging town in The Pacific Northwest for about fourteen years, and I was still logging when I got sober. I was what most would call a "redneck." I took a dim view of "hippies," gay people, and anyone else that thought different than I did. Because of the change that has taken place in me, due to AA, I have good friends that are gay & lesbian. My friend Angie is a lesbian and I would trust my life to her. She has more "God" in her little finger than the fundamentalists who would condem her to hell for being who she is. And she is a pretty orthodox AA member. When I was three years sober, a man asked me to sponsor him. I had told him about my background and one day he said he had something to tell me but was afraid to because I might not sponsor him after he told me. I asked him what it was he wanted to tell me, He said that he was gay. I was able to tell him that it made no difference to me. You see, I had tried to find the guy from high school to make amends to him, but couldn't find him, but the circle always gets closed, and through my sponsee I was able to make that amend. That was over fourteen years ago and that man is still sober and I still sponsor him and we are good friends.

Another one my best friends is a patchoulli wearing, granola earting, tree hugging hippie. In fact we share a house today with two other very liberal folks, all of whom I know through AA. An ex-redneck logger living with a bunch of environmentalists and social activists. In fact, I'm pretty active in the community myself.

Between two and three years of sobriety, I tried being a part of a fundamental church. I kind of liked some of it, but I found the courage to question the doctrine and couldn't buy it. I also couldn't stomach the exclusivity and hateful bigotry towards anyone that wasn't in line with their agenda. I ended up leaving that church and haven't found a need to be a part of anything like it since. For a while I had a pretty good resentment, but I had to let it go.

To sum it all up, I find that I can't afford to be bigoted against the bigots.
Jim
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