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Bear with me, folks. A further explaination...

Old 04-01-2009, 07:08 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jimhere View Post
I didn't mean to start a big ruckus and I apologize for doing so. I'll bow out now.
Jim, you weren't responsible for that exchange. Thanks for the share!

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Old 04-01-2009, 10:44 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Ruckus is one of my all time favorite words. (just a sidenote)
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:08 PM
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One look at those steps and you know you are going to end up in church, sooner or later
I disagree. I have done the steps and have no desire to attend church, period. I think you are confused on that matter, but since you have never done the steps, I don't understand how you have come to that conclusion? I guess it just fits nicely into your AA/church analogy. I hope you find something you can work with. You are right on one thing, your options are limited and so is your time.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:54 PM
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Folks, I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a flame war. That was not my intention at all...
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:23 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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That cat looks like one MEAN cat, I wont take his candy away ! But he is beautiful. You can sic him on all those who don't stick to the OP...OOOPS, am I sticking to the OP? Yes. I'll bear with you and the cat too!
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:06 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Phaleron View Post
Off-Topic! :P

You're a kind woman.
You're so sweet! Next thing you know we're going to have to deflate my ego.
OOPS!
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:47 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery View Post
I disagree. I have done the steps and have no desire to attend church, period. I think you are confused on that matter, but since you have never done the steps, I don't understand how you have come to that conclusion? I guess it just fits nicely into your AA/church analogy. I hope you find something you can work with. You are right on one thing, your options are limited and so is your time.
True. I am not a church goer. Like I said, I tried to be one and it didn't work for me. In fact I went a little nuts, and that was after having taken the steps. I do have some definite spiritual practices, but those have nothing to do with attending church. For some people, church is one of their practices. As for me, I belong to a church that is everywhere and nowhere and is not made with hands.

There are lot of people, both in AA and outside of AA that spout off opinions about experiences they've never had. This is just another example of that, not condemning anyone, but it is a fact. I've been guilty of same. I spent years talking out of my a** about subjects of which I knew little or nothing.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:57 AM
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:03 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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It would be a shame if this thread goes down in flames.

I am asking everyone here to please let it go and to refer to my disclaimer at the beginning of this thread.




Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Bam’s enormous disclaimer: Please, folks. This is my very personal experience and my experience alone. My intent is not to bash anyone’s beliefs or to ridicule. Please do not take it that way.

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Old 04-03-2009, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
I am asking everyone here to please let it go and to refer to my disclaimer at the beginning of this thread.
Bam, I've resigned from the debating society...

Last edited by doorknob; 04-03-2009 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:52 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jimhere View Post
I understand.

I guess what I would stress to anyone looking for a contented, meaningful sobriety through any approach is to let go of the resentment.

Like I said, I can't even get by with being bigoted against the bigots in the fundamental churches. They are still pushing their agenda and there isn't anything I can do about it. They are probaly not loosing much sleep over what I think of them.

And they are not the ones who will die of alcoholism.
I don't agree with this. Some of those fundamentalists are using every breath, every ounce of energy to fight socially progressive causes. (like *gay marriage*) They seem like sick people to me, but I'm the one who has to let go of resentments? Are the civil rights activists who fight them in the courts resentful? I don't think so.

I think resentments have nothing to do with alcoholism. These people seem to be very resentful of secularism, but I can't be resentful towards them?

Some degree of resentment is healthy. Only AA says its not. As long as it not eating away at you then theres no problem.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:22 AM
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I agree with Jim.

Resentments lead to violence, either in words or actions. And they devour a person or a group from within.

That's why Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi advocated nonresistance to further their cause of social injustice.

In Gandhi's words, "My nonresistance is active resistance in a different plane. Nonresistance to evil does not mean absence of any resistance whatsoever but it means not resisting evil with evil but with good. Resistance, therefore, is transferred to a higher and absolutely effective plane."

The same is true with the Dali Lama and his cause for Tibet.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:47 AM
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I'm not talking violence.. I'm talking about the anger that leads people to be motivated about causes. I'm sure MLK and Gandhi were both *fed up* with what was going on around them. If people werent resentful, we wouldnt have had the french revolution, the american revolution.. I can name countless examples.

If we just brushed off every wrong without being resentful, then we wouldn't have sufficient motivation to fight the powers at be who are fueling the resentment. Thats why I don't buy the "Love all" approach. If people are continually trying to hurt me, why should I love them?

Anyway.. think its wrong or right.. but everyone holds grudges.. its called being human. I really fail to see why alcoholism gets tied up with resentment, unless you you know for a fact you're drinking because you're resentful. But I doubt most people here were... they just get taught that in AA.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:32 AM
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OK, even if Phaleron sics his cat on me, you're going to get my opinion. I think we can resent without being violent. I consider myself somewhat of a pacifist. I admire Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, Jesus and others for their passive force. But I've no doubt that they feel anger and resentment at times, they are all human. I feel anger and resentment sometimes, but I do not get violent.

OK cat, if this post has nothing to do with the OP, I'm waiting come get me ! OLE
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:44 AM
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Look, I'm no guru or expert by any stretch, but I do think there needs to be a balance.

To focus all my energy on being angry/resentful/what-have-you without action is pointless.

Also, for me to focus on not feeling angry/resentful/what-have-you means I'm either not paying attention or I don't have a pulse.

I think that the figures mentioned above found positve ways to focus their anger/resenfulness/what-have-you in order to affect change.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:59 AM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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I would just like to add that if I resent someone or something it is my own business and there is generally a reason behind it (not always lol).

Again I chose whether to deal with the feelings I have, let them go or stew on them.

It is only aa that says resentment makes us drink and I don't do aa, its not some kind of universal law!

I personally deal with any resentments (which is a lovely vague term, don't you think?) in a very unhealthy, self defeating way and I have used them as an excuse to drink but I sometimes use sunny days as an excuse to drink!

I need to try and deal with my emotions in a more positive, healthy way and I am trying to do that using behavioural methods, I sometimes wish there was more anger in me to motivate change, at the moment it is apathy I am fighting.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:28 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Right now I'm feeling a lot of emotions and doing my best to sort through them.

I'm not well enough now to deal with anything other than trying to stay sober.

I feel like I'm back at square one again...it's frustrating...but I'm hoping the feeling passes soon.

I hope that one day I'm strong enough to overcome and focus my energy on issues that matter to me. The key is for me to get well first. I know sobriety is important, but the meat of the matter is my overall mental health...and it was bad way before I ever began drinking. I wish I knew then what I know now...I would have gotten help well over 10 years ago...and maybe alcohol wouldn't be the factor it is....but...what's done is past...I know I cannot change it. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

Believing that I can change...change more than just the drinking...to have confidence in all I do and to get a backbone...that's what I'm hanging onto.
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:01 PM
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I've never taken the Ghandi or MLK approach. I'm from South Louisiana.

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Old 04-03-2009, 01:06 PM
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According to my local addiction services, who are completely independent of AA, resentment accounts for 40% of relapses.
Now to me the way a lot of people in AA talk and looking at the 12 steps you would think its only reason for relapse.
I believe most people are capable of recognising what their triggers are. I sometimes think in AAs attempt to label everybody as the same it comes across as making the problem magical, people changing their behaviour to avoid drinking without it actually being personally relevant.
I remember a friend of mine sharing how she though it might be wrong to celebrate crossing the finishing line of a marathon because it was egotistical. Sometimes I think what's AA trying to do create androids!
I will say I do think AA offers a good strategy for dealing with resentments for many people.
As much as I criticize the big book I would like to also thank Jim in post 22 for posting why AA is in many ways such a fantastic organisation
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:36 PM
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Feelings and emotions are the very things that drive us to use. I don't think that being angry is bad, it can be used for good. I was very angry about a situation , I chose not to use but it was a choice that I refused to give anyone else that sort of power over me. My anger ramped my willpower.
I've forgiven people but I also don't choose to put myself back in the lion's den of being around certain people to allow them to anger me. It's in my best interest to avoid them. Anger though is healthy it protects me anyway from harm. If AA was unhealthy for my sobriety I would avoid it.
I'm in a situation where I am stuck with a certain amount of 12 steps a week. I do my own program daily but show up and get my sheet signed the rest of the time.

It is a part of the consequences I have to endure but I found that what really works for me is knowing that I am loved and forgiven by myself and it's my sobriety at stake not anybody else's so what keeps me sober/clean is the best program for me.

I refuse though to suck up someone else's issues and say it's all okay. They have their troll refuse and it's theirs not mine. I refuse to see how I should own any part of their stuff. Do I look at myself yes. Do I try to control yours his or hers no. If it is your troll refuse, looks like it, smells like it well it's yours not mine lol.
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