outonalimb

I've been fighting a huge internal battle over the last several weeks. I think I've worked my way thru it but boy did it take alot of blood, sweat and tears.

I witnessed a really bigotted, discriminatory, and, IMO, hateful course of action taken by a religious leader in my community. I don't really want to go into specifics about what was done...but suffice it to say that the action was taken in the name of our faith. Our faith...or our 'religion' if you will...called for a loving, giving and faithful human being to be ejected from our spiritual family because of who he is...and not anything that he has done.

Anyway...
This whole thing really broke my heart... and my spirit too for a while.

I can't understand why it was necessary to harm another human being in the name of our HP. It doesn't make any sense to me...and I reject any notion that our loving HP would want to see members of a certain group ostracized from a religious community simply because they are who they are.

I almost walked away from my 'religion'...
Not my faith, mind you...because that is a different thing altogether than no one can take from me...

I feel betrayed by my church. I feel hurt. I feel somewhat ashamed of it right now. I never thought I would feel this way. But this incident took the 'glow' or the 'polish' out of something I hold dear to my heart.

I've cried alot about it.
I've yelled alot about it...
I've prayed that my HP would shine a light for me because I certainly needed it.

I'm not quite thru the storm yet but I'm slowly working my way thru.

Has anyone else ever experienced such a crisis with their church (no need to be specific about what it is...)...?

I have and its kinda scary.

Thanks for letting me share.

marle

I understand your feelings, Out. I do not belong to any organized religion. My husband does and he wants me to join his church. My reasons for not include how they view a certain group of individuals and also how women are still considered second class as in they cannot become pastors or hold any high level positions in the church. So I prefer to practice my religion privately. I hope you find an answer that is just right for you. Hugs, Marle

splendra

When we get too comfortable sometimes things happen that stir things up a bit. It is situations like the one you speak of that form new churches.

Like when a bull dozer is used to push away the earth so that something can be built.

Prayer going out for you to find healing and direction.

mike_mass

I would find a new church, or at least take a hiatus until the discriminatory leader is gone. If I were to guess, the person being ostracized is gay. It's weird because my church takes a firm stance against gay people as a whole but at the local level they are visible in both the priesthood and laity. I'm hoping that Vatican III can somehow reconcile the divide (not holding my breath).

outonalimb

yeah, Mike, it was something along those lines...
but I know people have very strongly held views on this subject and that this topic can be very controversial and so I don't want to spark anything like that here...

Its just that my faith defines me. When I was younger, I thought my church defined me but not anymore. Not since recovery and not since I cultivated a relationship with my HP.

but my church always kind of facilitated my faith...and now i'm not so sure and its kind of painful. truly it has been.

i know the wounds will heal. I'm offering it all up to my HP...he'll sort it out for me when the time is right... but the whole thing just kind of stings, ya know?

again, thanks for letting me vent...

Easeful

I've been active in the church my entire life. I've held virtually every lay position in the organization, some for several terms. But what I've witnessed in recent years in my church and on the political stage has convinced me.....I am not a Christian. I am not like those people and they can have the name. Me? I consider myself a follower of the teachings of Christ. I try to keep those teachings every day. I'm much happier now.

outonalimb

sorry..double post !!

mooselips

OOAL,
I remember a long time ago, my cousin married in a Catholic church, then, both her and her husband to another popular religion.

They were in this new church for a long time. Probably 20 years and participated regularly.

About 6 years ago, she filed for divorce and was shunned by all the members in the church. They would not even look at her in the grocery store. I remember her heart was broken, as she considered quite a few of the members close friends.

We discussed this "shunning" at length. I said I was amazed that in her darkest hour she had no one to turn to.

She did divorce her husband because he had a gal on the side, and was an abusive drinker, all unknown to the church. She was the innocent party in it all.
Needless to say, she has since changed to a more forgiving, truely caring church.

I practice my faith in the confines of my own home. But I have been thinking about going to church, but there's so many to choose from, I wouldn't know where to start.


Hugs,

outonalimb

Thanks Diane.

It saddens me so to hear about what happened to your friend.
She needed her community more than ever and to feeled shunned must have hurt her deeply.

I had the feeling that I had sunk to a 'second-class' member of the community when I got divorced. Not by anything anyone said or did but because thats the way the 'rules' play these things out.

That hurt for a while.

But I worked my way thru it knowing that my HP supported and loved me and thats what mattered the most.

The thing is...is I feel like a naive sap for being so blind-sided over it...like I should have seen it coming and I totally didn't. Hhhhmmm...

STill working my thru this one obviously.

Thanks for all of your input.

kelsh

I gave up on Structured Religion some 39 years ago when my baby died. I prayed, cried, did not get any comfort from our minister and just walked outside one day on the college campus and yelled,: "There is no God or he wouldn't have taken my baby away."

It took quite a while to find my Spiritual H.P. but it did happen on a day when we
were having a thunder storm, lightening, rain & sunshine all at the same time with a strong wind. :praying

I stood watching out my kitchen window and thought about the power of a HP and why I couldn't find one. Then all of a sudden a flash of bright light came directly at me and seemed to go into my heart and gave me this calm warm feeling. It was then I decided my HP was there all along as a part of my Spirituality & I didn't even recognize it until now. This gave me such a peace of mind that helped me move on with my program.

So I feel my Higher Power is always with me and I just have to talk with him as my day goes along. It is such a joyus feeling and my guilt feelings of not going back to my Lutheran Religion have not resurfaced. :praying

kelsh

GiveLove

Hi Limb,

I live in Colorado, where many hateful, exclusionary, even violent things have been done in the name of one religion or another. It always breaks my heart, and always surprises me. wwjd? This? I think not.

I understand your pain, but urge you to hang tightly onto your faith, onto your personal relationship with your HP. THAT is the important element here, imho. "Church" is simply a community of (supposedly) like-thinking believers, and its actions are based on the opinions and power of a few....which may or may not be what you personally believe in. But your relationship with your HP is loving and inclusive, and that is what matters.

I left my spiritual community and joined another that was more in line with my beliefs and my way of worshiping....and my compassion for all people. It was hard but necessary. I could not spiritually or financially support people who did what they did.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this, and very sorry for the individual involved.

Hugs,
GL

outonalimb

You all have touched my heart with your replies. Wow. So much love and compassion here. I went to another forum (a church-based forum) to express my doubts and my pain and I was harshly criticized and all but damned to hell because of it.

Needless to say, I won't be going back there again.

I treasure this forum...I treasure that I could open my heart about something so deeply personal...knowing that i am safe.

My heart breaks for the man who was treated so shamefully.
My heart breaks because my sister is gay and I served as her 'best person' at her wedding. She has a stable, loving relationship. To think that they might have to endure similar hatred and discrimination breaks my heart to pieces.

My God would have nothing to do with such nonsense.

I won't lose my faith...its impossible I think...
but I feel like an orphan now...kinda strange...

GiveLove

Limb,

You're not an orphan. You may just have to choose another family for yourself in order to get closer to your god, as YOU understand him and his wishes. Breaking the habit will be a bit like learning to walk a different way, but you can do it if you feel it's best.

It is painful and unfortunate (especially for them, misguided as they are), but it can also ultimately be a joyous part of spiritual growth...scary at first but exhilarating when you find "your people" to worship with.

Do you have options in your area? Even if you have to range out a bit?

Love,
GL

ccirider

Since you have alluded to what you were talking about, I will comment. I can empathize (I didn't say sympathize) with the church. Are there not passages in the Bible that imply, if not explicitly, that God's will is for a man and woman to form a union and not members of the same sex?

Don't get me wrong. I am not taking their position. I am just saying that I understand why they are doing what they are doing. Now, if they were to excommunicate all Asians from the church because they were Asians, I would have a much more difficult time understanding that because I don't know where in the Bible it implies that all Asians should be expelled. I don't want to get into a religious debate here. I just wanted to say that, although I may not agree with them, I do understand them.

Peace.

Easeful

>Are there not passages in the Bible that imply, if not explicitly, that God's will is for a man and woman to form a union and not members of the same sex?
<

I follow what Jesus had to say on this topic. He somehow managed to preach for 3 years without ever mentioning homosexuality. He did preach at length on love, forgiveness, compassion and caring for those less fortunate.

greeteachday

Limb,

I'm sorry you have to go through this and extremely sorry that an organized group that is supposed to be based in love and compassion can judge someone else. Unfortunately, I too have not been actively involved with the religion I was raised in because of circumstances that lead me to conclude that what the church says it is founded on is not what I saw in practice. It was more important to me to hang onto my faith and spirituality...I felt hypocritical to be a part of a community that was lead by those who appeared to want power and control and to exercise it in ways that I believed were hurtful to others.

The defining moment for me was when a young child I know wanted to do a community project and collect diapers and formula for an organization that worked with single mothers. The pastor refused to let her put an announcement in the church bulletin and told her "we do more than enough for the poor already." What a message to send to a child! This same pastor, when he was first transferred to this church, also called a halt to a community project where we were giving of our time and skills voluntarily to restore an old house for use by the church. It was a wonderful project, not just because of what we were doing, but the fellowship that developed as we worked together. He preferred to spend church funds and hire outside contractors to letting the church community continue its work. I realized my resentments towards him were making me as hypocritical as I believed he was acting and I stopped attending that church.

I have found unfortunately that often church leaders take totally opposite views on things so it is not so much the religion as the leaders that define how the community is structured. I prefer just living my belief which is to do unto others as you would want others to do unto you. I never found a true spiritual connection with the organized ritual; it is more in the volunteerism that I find that sense of community and peace. So I practice that in many ways without a specific organized religion.

Hugs and prayers Limb. I hope you find peace as you work your way through this. Love you my friend!

frankly

((out)) your faith is shining. Your own thoughts and concerns is HP's light.

Like so many others, I used to be a member of a church, long ago I decided to listen to my heart, not someone's interpretation of what my heart should feel.

If I were to ever find a church that was filled with all kinds, then I probably would feel confortable there again. My ideal gathering would not be defined by who someone was, what they had done, what they had on, or what they had. It would be defined by what they were seeking. It would be the poorest building, with the richest heart. I feel that HP's house is in our bodies, minds and souls. I visit it every day.

My only advice would be to pray about it, and listen to your heart.
B

outonalimb

Again, thanks everyone for letting me work this out with peace and love in my heart.

Thank you for not making this a topic about gays...so much as it is about individual conscience and what we go thru when it clashes with something fundamental to our church. Thats what its about really...

Thank you for treating it as such. I just love this forum. Thanks for letting me work thru this here with you.

Much love...

ccirider

Hi Easeful:

I appreciate what you said, but you didn't answer my question. I am sure that there must have been limits on Jesus' love, forgiveness, and compassion. Otherwise, he would have been a good candidate to attend Al-Anon meetings. Religious craziness doesn't help me at all in my struggle against the insanity of addiction, so I will give you the last word here.

Peace.

laurie6781

OOAL, there is a book, by Emmet Fox titled "The Sermon On The Mount."

It certainly helped me a lot to differentiate between organized religion, God's or HP's laws and man made laws.

I understand your dilemma. I know it is very difficult to accept or understand the acts of some in "the name of religion."

Today I belong to no 'organized sect or religion.' Does not mean I do not live a spiritual life, far from it.

I am sorry you had to see this and hope that you can overcome it and find your path. You have said you will not lose your faith, that is great. I do not believe personally that faith has anything to do with organized religion.

I do believe Emmet Fox's book may help you.

J M H O

Love and hugs,