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Old 05-20-2007, 04:54 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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Of course, anyone can say what they need to say.
If they choose not to, it's their choice, no one elses.

A 15 year of girl, with a 27 year old man is not stupid. It's a CRIME!
And yes, people DO do something about it all the time.
A 23 year old female with an older man is her business, even if her parents disagree. But, now the subject has changed. It's no longer about youngsters taking drugs. So, the issues are completely different.

Please don't think there's offense. It's simply a disagreement.
And it's ok to disagree.

Shalom!
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:56 PM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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I think we have to remember that 14 year old boys, girls, make impulsive choices, because they believe, at that age, no harm can come to them.

That's why boys speed, and jump off roofs, and do other risk taking adventures.
IMHO, I don't think any of our daughters, or sons took drugs thinking they could actually become addicted, or be harmed. It's the attitude of the teenage years.
We all make mistakes....errors of judgement.

I know for a fact both of my sons had drug education, by teachers, in school right before they began using.
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Old 05-20-2007, 05:25 PM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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My daughter was never a risk taker, quite the opposite. Except when it came to drugs. She knew the risks, but I think that we have to remember that when we were young we took the risks too. My dad was alcoholic but that did not keep me from getting drunk with my friends. It was fun. I was lucky. I outgrew it and I think my daughter thought that she would too. When I am feeling angry at her then I call what she did stupid. It is said out of anger and frustration. When I have compassion, then I feel sorry for her that she was one of the unfortunate ones that became addicted. I know that if she could have seen the future, she probably would have said no to that first hit of oxycontin, but she didn't and so she is where she is and I am where I am. Still having days of sadness, days of anger, but better than where I was a year ago. Hugs, Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 05:31 PM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Marle
What is it that I have learned here? Progress, not perfection.
I pray that all of us can make the progress that you have made.
Terri
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Old 05-20-2007, 05:57 PM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by hope213 View Post
i believe that addiction is a sickness. i also believe that the bad choice is the devils work. God is good,the devil is bad. the devil tempes us,(them) to use the first time,they make the choice to use & then it becomes a sickness. God then works to get them back,they have another choice. it is up to our addicts to fight for there life.does this make sense?



It makes perfect sense to me, thats why I say or someone has probably said it first that its a vicious circle, temptation, usage, recovery, relapse, temptation perfect sense to me yep!
and I always just assumed everyone thought that the drug is the devil and recovery is redemption.
very good post!!!!
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:15 PM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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Ok, I'll throw my 2 cents in here. Humans have a tendency to personify things: "Satan", "God", "Shiva", "Yaweh" etc., because it makes the phenomena easier to deal with and explain; abstract ideas are not most people's strong point.
We like to give a reason for things because we like to compartmentalize things: this person goes in this compartment, this one there, and because they are in a nice neat little box, they should display certain behaviours.
Then much to our dismay the "nice" girl, the "good" boy, turn into raving, drug-addicted lunatics so we try to find a reason for it: "The Devil made him do it", when in reality there may be absolutely NO rhyme or reason for the behaviour.
The reason they "turned away from the church" is because the church usually tries to teach good moral values and that makes addicts uncomfortable. What they want is a group of people who validate their addictions and chances are they wouldn't find that in church, synagogue, or mosque.
Now LISTEN, I am NOT dissing anyone's religious beliefs here and I am NOT trying to make anyone uncomfortable, I am just relating my observations on the portions of society I have observed.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:28 PM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caileesnana View Post
To DOne w/ it--

I am happy you are doing so well. I'm sorry if I offended you. I still know my daughter knew better and did it anyway. As a parent I pray you never know the living hell we go through watching our children destroy their lives. I am happy you are done with it and hope you put you knowledge of what drugs can do to good use. Maybe some young girl w/ self doubt will listen to you, they certainly don't listen to their parents.
You did not offend me, what you or anyone else think of me is none of my business.
Judging someone for the way they think is something I try not to do, even when it is about me. If I thought I was stupid then maybe I would have been offended and maybe that is why I asked, because I am sure I am not now. So if anything
thank you, because you completely clarified it in my mind. I know I am not.


You said,

<<<<<As a parent I pray you never know the living hell we go through watching our children destroy their lives. >>>>>>


My life is not all roses. My mom is an alcoholic. I've seen things "JUST" as bad as you mothers have, and I have been "JUST" as scared as you have been, for my own safety at times when I was young and now for her safety at times. I also watched her Dad die from alcoholism. So I'm not naive to how horrible it is for you to have to watch or go through what you do. I see them continue to make bad decisions, but I have never thought of them as being stupid people. But that is just me.


You said,
<<and hope you put you knowledge of what drugs can do to good use. Maybe some young girl w/ self doubt will listen to you, they certainly don't listen to their parents.>>>
For the record, I do work with teenagers every single day, and they do listen to what I have to say. But I have to say I think you sell yourself short. I do think your daughter listened to you, they listen a lot more than you would ever think that they do. But teens, people, young adults, adults, make mistakes. It's just a part of life. Some kids are more daring than others and need to do things and figure it out on there own, no matter what you tell them, doesn't mean they aren't listening.
For the most part it's the opposite, they listen to "Everything" you have to say.
But they, just like me, have to figure it out on their own.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:39 PM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by marle View Post
My daughter was never a risk taker, quite the opposite. Except when it came to drugs.
lol, that's kind of funny, I was the complete opposite,

I was a complete risk taker, I was the one out there car surfing, professional
barrel racer, competitive motorcylce racer, baseball player, got into
the choking game, could get into any night club, any concert,
stunt girl in cheerleading, jump off of buildings, nothing scared me, etc.,
(lol, No wonder my mom drank, eh. lol I used to drive her crazy)
I never had an issue w/drinking, but the one thing I would never touch
was Drugs, wouldn't be around them, go around them, around users,
anything, they scared me. Weed didn't scare me, and did nothing for me,
but anything more than that, and you'd see me running.
Most likely into more trouble, but running away from drugs...
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:43 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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My life is not all roses. My mom is an alcoholic. I've seen things "JUST" as bad as you mothers have, and I have been "JUST" as scared as you have been, for my own safety at times when I was young and now for her safety at times. I also watched her Dad die from alcoholism. So I'm not naive to how horrible it is for you to have to watch or go through what you do. I see them continue to make bad decisions, but I have never thought of them as being stupid people. But that is just me.
I like what DOne states here. I agree with her. my children are young but Ive been through so much pain watching my husband and father self destruct. Neither at all are stupid, both are extremely bright on IQ tests. My father started off at 14 self medicating because depression and suicidal tenedencies were so unknown then. My husnband started at 15. Why, he had Never thought about drugs, his brother had just dies beside him and he was so overcome with grief and noone was able to see where he was hurting so as he stumbled away from the funeral a man said Hey I can help you feel better. At that point all he could think of was not feeling what he was feeling. A year later when his daughter was born blue, he felt the same way he only knew one way to cope, and sadly he still only knows one way to cope with sadness, anger and anxiety
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:55 PM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cinderellawkids View Post
Why, he had Never thought about drugs, his brother had just dies beside him and he was so overcome with grief and noone was able to see where he was hurting all he could think of was not feeling what he was feeling. and sadly he still only knows one way to cope with sadness, anger and anxiety

Yea, my mom's "baby" brother killed himself, shot himself in the head. I saw her when she found out. For "HER" there was no other way for her or her dad to escape the pain except drinking. I saw it. There were no signs, he had no depression
that anyone saw, it was one of the most shocking things I've still ever seen to this day. Who am I to judge my Mom? She still hasn't learned how to deal with pain, from that incident she instilled it in herself that drinking was the only way she could deal. And for all I know, maybe it is? I can't fix my mom or her pain if I could
I would, being angry at her did me no good. All I can do is love her, and that is what i have learned to do. I don't like what she does, but it is what it is and I get it, why she does it. But she is my mom, and I love her more than anything.
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:42 PM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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Done, I know my daughter uses to escape pain. Maybe from her Eating Disorder and how she feels that she has failed. I don't know because she never was good at talking about her feelings and I know that she wanted me to be happy so it was hard for her to dump things on me. You are an amazing person with a lot of insight. Like I told Teke, if my daughter's addiction someday makes her into the kind of person that you and Teke and the other recovering addicts are, then there was a purpose for all this suffering. Hugs and thanks, Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:04 PM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by marle View Post
Done, I know my daughter uses to escape pain. Maybe from her Eating Disorder and how she feels that she has failed. I don't know because she never was good at talking about her feelings and I know that she wanted me to be happy so it was hard for her to dump things on me. You are an amazing person with a lot of insight. Like I told Teke, if my daughter's addiction someday makes her into the kind of person that you and Teke and the other recovering addicts are, then there was a purpose for all this suffering. Hugs and thanks, Marle

"My Scars Remind Me That The Past Is Real"..........

Sometimes our addictions, diseases, eating disorders, cutting, drinking,
whatever it may be at the time, is the only thing that is keeping us
alive and/or is the thing that is leading us to be the person we are
supposed to be.

lol, It may sound messed up to say, but I would be one "Messed up"
person had I not been so messed up already.....
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:26 AM
  # 73 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by historyteach View Post
And I'm sorry but, to call a 14 year old who makes a very bad error in judgement "stupid" is cruel. ALL 14 year olds make errors in judgement; some worse than others.
I totally agree.

You know that magic age when companies allow you to rent a car? There is a reason for it - people under the age of 25 are proven to have decreased judgement and risk asessment compared to those over 25.

I do not believe that any kid can comprehend what taking drugs can lead to. That is why you put as many barriers as you can between them and drugs.

"A National Institutes of Health study suggests that the region of the brain that inhibits risky behavior is not fully formed until age 25, a finding with implications for a host of policies, including the nation's driving laws." Read the rest of the article at washington post dot com (sorry, I'm not allowed to link yet!)
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Old 05-21-2007, 06:40 AM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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I am one of the people who pm'd cailessnana. I don't think I used the word stupid though. I did say I think addiction is caused by a gene & not everyone who uses gets addicted. I also said I think my own son has issues he repressed & he uses drugs to numb his feelings. Sometimes there is an underlying psychiatric disorder & people that use are self medicating.
It is a very, very complex issue & one explanation or reason is not the whole picture. So many things play into it. I know someone here said " addiction is a sickness of the soul " & I tend to agree with that. Some people try drugs cuz of peer pressure, youth, low self esteem, curiosity......a whole myriad of reasons. Some people use for awhile & then quit. Why, when people try alot of different drugs, do some only get addicted to one and not all they tried. What makes one person get addicted to coke & not another if each of them try it???
I grew up in the 60's. In my world & circle of friends drugs were never used or tried......in fact noone I knew in HS did drugs of any kind.................smoking cigarettes and having a couple of beers is the only so called vices anyone I knew had. These were the days before even seat belt laws or disposable diapers, and when my kids were born there wern't even any seat belt laws. Whn I got divorced my AS was the only child is his class to come from a single parent home.
I started smoking cigarettes in my last yr of high school, both my parents smoked & nothing bad had yet to be published about the dangrs of smoking. Even during the 60's the pressure for a young woman to be thin was there ( remember Twiggy? ) & I clearly rmember I started to smoke cuz it made me dizzy & made me lose my apptite.
I don't think I was stupid to start smoking just naieve & ignorant about the dangers of cigarettes. Now I am a grandma & addicted & quitting is very hard.
So do I think my son was stupid, no he is quite intelligent, but ignorant to the dangers of coke, & to all the negative consequences that come from the disease of addiction.
Love,
Diane
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