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Old 05-20-2007, 07:39 AM
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This may be controversial....

and only reflects my views but I have been thinking a lot on this subject lately. We say that the addict lives in darkness. We talk about them finding the light and us too. A HP can restore us to sanity. That our HP is there waiting for us to seek the light. So is the other side "the devil". I believe that addiction is the devil on earth. Addiction is living in hell, losing your soul. The addict talks about the "hole in their soul" that needs to be filled with something and that something is a drug that steals what is left of their soul. Would welcome others opinions on this. Seeing the life my daughter is willing to live and the things she is willing to do to get her drug, I have to think that there is evil there somewhere. Marle

ps. I almost didn't post this because I hate to make reference to the devil. And I do believe that addicts are sick. I know that science has shown this. But if a HP can restore them to sanity, then is not the insanity caused by evil to begin with. I also believe that when I start to hate the addict I am buying into evil thinking too. Don't know but would be interested to hear others opinions.
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:50 AM
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Marle, you may have something there. It really does give you something to think about. Drugs are evil and that is a temptation that our drug users have to resist for a better life. Good post and thanks.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:00 AM
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The other reason that I posted this is because my daughter grew up in the church. She was involved in her youth group and at one time was youth group leader. Religion and the belief in God is important in our family. When she started to experiment with drugs, she turned away from the church. She returned when she was in recovery and then turned away again when she relapsed. I also saw the same thing happen to her ex-best friend who abuses drugs. So I have to believe that the two are connected in some way. Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:00 AM
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i believe that addiction is a sickness. i also believe that the bad choice is the devils work. God is good,the devil is bad. the devil tempes us,(them) to use the first time,they make the choice to use & then it becomes a sickness. God then works to get them back,they have another choice. it is up to our addicts to fight for there life.does this make sense?
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:26 AM
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Blue, I feel that when I start hating my daughter, I start getting into the negative thinking, that I am giving myself over to the dark side or the devil. I have even imagined scenarios of having her abf bumped off. I would never do it or would I? Also that it would be better if she died. That is when I start thinking that evil is controlling me too. Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:30 AM
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I so agree. There is no doubt in my mind this world of addicition is evil warfare and I am learning to pray forward for myself and myAS , my family and all those who are impacted by this cunning and baffeling disease. I am sincerely trying to move from fear based paryers to prayers of gratitude and hope and the promise of living in my HP's promises. It is there for the asking - for anyone and everyone. And I am learning 'It is up to the addict to fight for their life'. So I pray like it has already taken place 'I thank you God for his continued recovery, for hitting him with that 2X4 of realization that he is a child of God and I thank you for keeping evil from him and us.'

then I need to remember that my HP's timeline is often different than mine. I am learning to quit trying to push that dead horse uphill - but I never quit praying. Does that make sense? Great post! /M
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:48 AM
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The bible talks of the devil being loose on the world. I believe too that drugs are of the devil and his best plan yet to corrupt those he can.

My daughter also grew up in church, knows the bible, yet was stupid enought to try drugs, first one then the other. That makes me think she is trying to escape from something "self medicate". My question is while in rehab, why dont they get to the core issues instead of focusing on what they have done to their brain? I know they need both, but w/o working on the issues that got them to the point of drugs, they will go back again and again. I've seen for 6 years. I've also looked "the beast" face to face. Only my faith has kept me sane!

God bless all you moms
susan
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:02 AM
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I also believe that when I start to hate the addict I am buying into evil thinking too.
I couldn't agree with you more!

Only my faith has kept me sane!


I, personally, don't believe in a "devil" that is outside of our own evil side of the self. We are all, each one of us, holy and profane. But, whatever part of ourselves that we feed, grows. Sadly, the addict feeds into the contempt for the sacred side of their self. Recovery allows them to rediscover the sacred part.
My prayer is that our addicts will once more discover their sacred self.

Shalom!
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:09 AM
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oh boy!
ephesians 6:11-13
put on the whole armor of god, that you maybe able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
therefore put on the whole armor of god that you may be able to stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
i believe that the battle is between good and evil, god and the devil. man is like pawn in the game of life between the two. the battle is in the mind. addiction i think is a powerful weapon of warfare for the devil and man's only hope is faith in god and his word.

man has a god given right to choose good from evil but the enemy attacks the thought life. the program is designed to reprograms the thought life and i think that the enemy fights tooth and nail trying to keep the addict from making that decision to seek help.

think about it addiction is all in the mind. those urges, those obsessive thoughts. read the first few of the 12 steps. first we have to turn our will over and believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. i think that addicts are humans locked in between the battle of good and evil, both battle for the soul of man.

gosh i don't know if this makes sense but i can go on and on about this one. thanks marle for the post.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:14 AM
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Makes sense to me Teke. I know that I battle my own personal demons when it comes to my daughter. Things that I won't share here because I feel shame for even thinking those dark thoughts at times. Hugs, Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:20 AM
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(((Marle)))
You can feel free to express those dark thoughts.
Exposing them to the light is what will destroy them.
Keeping them locked inside will allow them to fester.
Please know, we are not responsible for our thoughts. The thought alone is simply an action in the neurotransmitters of the brain. We have no control over the thought itself. We only have control over what we DO with that thought.
And we are only as sick as our secrets.
Know that you are loved here.
There is no shame.

Shalom!
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:30 AM
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marle, i agree with history, shed some light on those thoughts, darkness can't hide in the light, the darkness disappears. i think that the enemy operates out of fear and god out of faith. don't be afraid or ashame to expose the enemy, he can only attack your thoughts but its up to you what you do with those thoughts. i love you too. you probably haven't out bad thought me, so i do understand.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:34 AM
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Thoughts are just thoughts. They do not harm. Our actions and what we say can harm. They come and go. We have thousands a day. I know I can dismiss the ones that are dark so as not to dwell on them. We can air them
and replace them...we have amazing power over our thoughts.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:46 AM
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Okay, I have thought about this many times over the last year. I would rather see my daughter dead than to continue to suffer and degrade herself like she is doing. I have even had thoughts of helping her along with putting pain killers in a drink so that she would just go to sleep. Then I could bury her, mourn her and move on. I know that it would not be that easy. I know that she has the right to live her life the way she wants. And I know that I don't have the answers to her problems and have no right to decide her fate. But I do not believe that she will be one of the lucky ones to make it out of her addiction and I can only see more pain in her future. These are the dark thoughts that come to me at times. Not constantly and I know that they come when I am feeling down. There are other times that I feel God's love for her and my own and I know that I want her to stay in this world and have a chance. Those are the times that I praise God for letting her live one more day and giving her a chance to find recovery. I also believe that I have a spiritual connection with her and that when I have these dark thoughts I am sending negativity her way. And I think she feels it even though I am only thinking the thoughts, not verbalizing them to her. It makes me feel like a fake at times. The two sides of me warring all the time. I believe God is a merciful God and that He is patient and waiting for her to return to His fold. I believe that I need to learn God's lesson and like the story of the Prodigal Son, I need to be patient and loving and forgiving. So there it is and I do feel shame for not being able to follow God's lead at times and I do believe that it is the devil or the evil side of me that makes me have these thoughts. Marle
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:49 AM
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I was that girl, who was raised in church and then fell into drugs and avoided anything that had to do with facing God. Her time will come where she will realize that drugs aren't going to fill whatever she thinks is missing, and she will go back to Him. I do agree with your point of view. The devil will tempt, and it's hard to get away from it. Just pray and have faith. God does perform miracles, even if they are small.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:55 AM
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i think you did good marle, you shedded some light on those thoughs, now to keep them at bay, the bible says that we are to cast down every thought and imagination that exalt itself against the will of god. this helps me not to hold onto those thoughts sending those negaive vibes. it helps me to heal from them and helps me in my faith walk.

its kind of hard for me to believe that you would even recognize this need to shed light on these thoughts if it wasn't gods timing for you to have the need to do this. stopping now, just thinking out loud i guess
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:02 AM
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I recall thinking AS would be better off dead. My thought was actually selfish. I hated the agonizing feelings I had and somehow thought his being dead would ease them.
That was a long time ago. By the grace of HP and Alanon, I know today his life has a purpose.
He works with younger inmates and uses his life as an example for them, encouraging them to make better choices. He has corresponded with their families.
Two families showed up as character witnesses for him at his last sentencing hearing. They told the judge how much he had helped them and their sons. He can't change his circumstances for the time being, however he feels he has a spiritual purpose while incarcerated. That is Grace.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:02 AM
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I think that drugs are evil but not necessarly the addicts who are doing them. The addict who is using can be as evil as they come but so can someone who has never been high. The evil I feel is at work is the evil of man. Men and women feed others to the evil with no thought or concern for thier fellow man. Men created and makes many of the drugs to sell, sell the drugs to addicts to use and commit crimes against others to continue using drugs, this is evil. I think the crimes commited against mankind in the circle of addiction is evil but not all addicts by far are evil. I felt inside myself the evil effect that drugs caused me to the point of thinking about the bumpoff to almost bumping someone off. My good side, common sense and free will gave me the ability to stop myself, thank god. Addicts know they need to stop, many want to and they have the means to do so. Addicts don't stop using until they choose to do so, using thier god given ability, thier own free will, to choose to be sober. Drugs take away men and womens ability to choose, for a while, to stay sober and not get high, thats evil.

Last edited by Noah812; 05-20-2007 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:13 AM
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my thought would be greatly controversial, but Id like to leave this thought:

The greek word "pharmakia, translated pharmacia, original definition was, practice of spiritism or druggery.

Quoted from An Expitorry Dictionary of the New Testiment Words, by W.E. Vine
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:20 AM
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I couldn't agree with you more Marle. when my SA was growing up I saw him give himself to his HP ( or The Lord, Allah, whatever or whoever u believe ) and 5 minutes later he found his hampster ( that he loved ) dead. He cried & cried & blamed himself for not taking better care of him. I think my son was 11.
He was away from his HP for a few yrs & when he was in jail he came bk to his faith. Now my son believes with his whole heart & soul, when he is in jail he attends church regularly & witnesses to others about his faith. When he is released he does well for awhile & then starts missing church, starts using again & falls. I believe my sons faith is real but his flesh is weak. I also believe his HP has a plan for his life & in His time it will be revealed.........thats the thought that keeps me going.
I do believe in evil, if u believe in God you have to believe in the devil.
Love,
Diane
So glad u brought this up. again
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