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Old 03-06-2007, 10:44 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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One thing curious to me is how people identify with thier own private thoughts/feelings and never see past that it is the Human Experience. My point is we all have FELT destined to be with someone. That we were meant to be together by the grace of god with someone. This feeling makes us and our relationships feel more secure and guranteed a level of success as well, selfishly, kinda special. I like the old saying goes "I am an individual" hehe..just like everyone else, we want to feel special. Well I would like to point out to new and old SR members how many people come to SR and approach thier A story diffrently than they do others. They tell others to run for the hills but they don't because thier relationship is diffrent and a part of thier destiny. They are not giving up on thier spouse and are sticking by thier soul mate. My question is, don't you reaslise we ALL felt the same way. And please don't immediatley say to yourself "obviously not". We have all had these thoughts inside of us though for us we had a change of plans, not a change of heart. I used to think as a young person I knew what life was about and what to expect. Now as I am older I realise I had no idea then and I am amazed daily at the good and the bad that life can bring. For someone who has decided NOT to have thier life journey destroyed by another person, due to drugs, does not make them less loyal to thier A, just more loyal to themselves. I left my XAGF after too much trying and it was nothing compared to what many here have gone through. Relationships in life whether romatic or not, come an go, only the strongest relationships stand the test of time. We lose loved ones, friends and even lovers for many diffrent reasons, it does not always have to be about drugs. Drugs do not keep relationships stable and threfore people elect to jump off off of a sinking ship and save themselves rather than drown with the addict. As far as immediatly finding someone new after my xagf I took 2 years off because of the shape i was in due to the addcit crap. I have found someone I love very much now and I intend on keeping it that way. Only at the end can we really say how the race was finished, until then we are still just trying to keep going. Don't make too many absolutes for yourself as maybe your destiny was to meet you AH and let him go learning a lesson. My god would not torture someone with staying with an addcit to test your faith. God loves all of us but we have to learn to love ourselfs too.

As far as the family memeber vrs spouse ect. They are equally challenging though I do see an escape route for being involved with a addict vrs having one in the family. Now as Bigsis said being with a addict you do really lose everything that keeps most people going. Having had a addcit in my family, I know it is easier just to avoid addict tendencies than to live with them. I am torn but I think spouses have more options as a AS ect. will always be your Addict Son and there is no divorce.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:45 AM
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I think that one thing some do not consider with the whole............."let go, and sit back and wait and see if they hit bottom and come back'" senerio is this............
with your child, expecially an adult child, when they get to the bottom and when they are able to bring themself back.....they return to your life Your child that never changes...no matter what they do, where they are or who their with............
NOT SO with a spouse............
After all is said and done, it matters directly to the relationship as husband and wife, where they go, what they do and who they are with.............the behavior and actions of the addict can and often DO destroy the relationship the marriage.................so when they are done.theres nothing left to come back to, and in the meantime the spouse has lost the companion the emotional support and the financial support/assistance of their partner...........

The fact is..........parent child husband wife son dauther brother sister mother father...............addiction hurts us all there is no measure of the pain, or grief or havoc that is part of addiction...............

Detachment (for me) is whatever it takes for ME, today to be okay............... today it may mean not checking his cell phone .......who knows what it could mean in the future..........one day it could mean I have to walk away..................just like with a parent today it could mean saying no to requests for cash.............and later it could mean saying no to a place to live and the need for the parent to not walk away......but to turn their back.... I believe the "amount" of detachment depends 1st on us individually based on our need to "protect" ourself emotionally, financially and sometime physically and 2nd it depends on our addict and they depths of their abuse of drugs and where that takes them.

the lies,stealing,cheating and even physical assult is not limited to any one side(parent/spouse) just as addiction is not limited to the poor or one race or sex.................so detachment to some degree becomes necessary for us all at some point and to some degree as we deal and learn to cope with addiction................

Addiction ruins lives.....................and detachement is more about limiting the damage in your life than it is about Leaving or staying.........
Just my opinion
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:05 AM
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Jumping in late here...
As a parent of an addict I can say that although it is so difficult to stand by and watch your child destroy his life, I did have the luxury of detaching, but allowing myself back in when he chose to get help.
And as BigSis said, it comes down to how long are you willing to wait.
Had my son taken a lifetime to find recovery, my door would have still been open. I always wanted my kid in my life, the choice was his. And while I waited I could move forward in my life.
But with a spouse, an adult relationship, there comes a time that we as adults can no longer live in a life of addiction. This covers any loved one...at some point we say "no more"
But to expect the spouse to wait years until perhaps they choose recovery is unreasonable.
Although all kidding aside, there was a time I WANTED to divorce my kid.
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:17 AM
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Understanding what is being said…

My son is a recovering heroin addict. I can’t measure another’s pain but my own pain has been acute.

I love my son with all my heart. I loved him before he was addicted, I loved him when he was addicted and I love him now in his recovery. I will always love my son, this is a constant.

There was a time when I was here at SR when I was reading and listening to advice that told me to detach and take care of me. I heard it, I thought I understood it.

I became frozen in this sort of horrid limbo where I could not move forward or back because I thought to detach meant I had to cut all contact to my son. That, I am still sure to this day, this could have seen to the death of my son. Death at that time was hovering close to him anyway. Yet, now in retrospect I believe that was not what was being said at all, no one ever said (that I remember) those exact words –cut-all-contact. They said, detach from the chaos, which I did eventually learn to do and still maintain contact with my son.

We have to make decisions, WE can live with (not someone else) decisions WE can live with because we, alone, are the ones that have to live with those choices.

If someone chooses to cut all contact with their addict, I understand and support their decisions because it must be what is right for them. It would not be right for me.

I think addiction CAN be beaten down. I think there are good people fighting for their lives and if there is anything I can do to help my son I will do it (even if this means NOT doing something).

Many of my son’s friends are in recovery and honestly many of them have earned a warm spot in my heart and my home. I also do volunteer work with adolescents in recovery. I see recovery happen all the time. Recovery happens every day. Miracles do happen, I’ve seen them with my own eyes, with my own son.

Sometimes I struggle with the hard edge of some co-dependents. I don’t like the mocking or name calling that happens sometimes. It seems so hard and harsh to me and too quickly explained away as “just-our-humor”. Yet, I do understand why some are angry, especially wives. I also feel that some initial anger is a cover for underlying feelings of fear and betrayal.

I also feel that we need to allow our addicts to find and walk their recovery by themselves but even though this most likely will not be a popular view I think that those that have people that help them along the way, those that have people that love them and don’t withhold that love from them stand a much better chance at being successful at their recovery. This is one of the reasons I think that AA is so successful because addicts can always find support there even if they can’t find it anyplace else.

good luck,

sigh
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MeggieStar View Post
When people suggest detachment it's so we as loved ones don't lose ourselves to an addiction that doesn't belong to us. It doesn't mean leave, it doesn't mean stop loving.
beautiful
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:25 AM
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Well said Sigh!

Hugs,
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:06 PM
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To each their own. My way of detachment doesn't have to be any body elses way of detachment. I know my side of the street is clean and that right now, for today, I am emotionally, financially, physically stable. I know what I can live with and what I can't. I know how much I can take and when I'll have to give up.

I know my way of detachment and my program works for me and that's all that matters.

For someone who has decided NOT to have thier life journey destroyed by another person, due to drugs, does not make them less loyal to thier A, just more loyal to themselves.
I do know my life hasn't been destroyed and that I am very loyal to myself. I know that that's what I've been working on in my recovery and have become more loyal to myself than ever. It doesn't mean that I am wrong to stay with my addict. It doesn't mean that we will all eventually leave our addicts in the dust and move on and meet someone else.

I don't think it has anything to do with age. I've dealt with more addiction in my life since I was young than a lot people ever have to deal with. My father is an alcoholic (sober for about 10 years now) I grew up with an alcoholic father in my life. My mother did choose to stay with him. They are happily married now for over 40 years. I agree with Jewelz...its hurts more with my AH than it did with my father.

I'm not suggesting that anyone stay in a marriage they don't want to be in but I know what's right for me. I know how much I can take and how much I'm willing to sacrifice......no one else but me knows that. I'm not suggesting that those who have left their marriages are wrong or should have "stuck it out", I just know that it wasn't right for me to leave.

I realize there is always the possibility of relapse and am willing to accept that, just as their is a possibility of someone who is not an addict/alcoholic to become one.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:59 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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(((Jwife)))
I didn't mean to offend you in the least. I can't imagine watching a spouse go through addiction and I do understand the death of dreams, and how painful that is.

I guess, for me, because I came in late to addiction, not having recognized the signs early on, but am seeing the end result nontheless, it's easier to say "get out". When you are in a relationship at the beginning of addiction, and it has not spiralled down to the depths of where my daughter is.....it probably would be hard to jump ship. And I am in no way suggesting anyone do so.....and also apologize to anyone who thought I was putting them down.

I suppose, I'm forever the codie....wanting to make everyone's life better...and as with any advice....we all think our situation is different....our addict is different. 1 year ago....if you had told me my daughter would be a junkie....hooking for money.....not caring about her son....I would have told you, you were crazy.....

So where ever you are in your journey.....we're all here for you!!! Whether you are on the top of the hill, midway down, or at the bottom (where I'm at)

Sorry again for offending
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:13 PM
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(((NSW)))

I was hurt and somewhat offended by the statement that its just easier for a spouse but I suppose I was taking all of my frustration out on you because I had just read another thread that said something of the same thing. For that I apologize for my initial reply to your post.

I don't even pretend to know what its like for a mother or father to have an addicted child because I don't know. I do know what my feelings are on having an addicted spouse and that it is very painful.

It does hurt for someone to imply (even though I don't think this is what you meant to do) that my pain is lesser because its not a child that is addicted and when I read that someone writes is harder for a parent that does hurt. It makes me feel like my pain is not important.

I think all of our pain is important and it is important to share our pain here. I know it saved my life.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:17 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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in a way my "detachment" has been easier than a bunch of those described: i told my ah the drugs were unacceptable and basically he chose to leave. the distance has probably been a blessing in disguise. it definitely still hurts, but the only thing i have had to do is not reach out to him...or respond to his manipulation techniques. and lemme tell y'all, though that is a daily struggle in itself, it has been much easier knowing that SR and all of you were here....

i tried to hit the thanks button on the posts that particularly touched me, but it keeps saying refresh or something....and since there were just so many, i will just say thank y'all for clarifying, identifying, and sharing. i know that with time (and hope) I can learn to understand what recovery is all about, i don't know if i am in recovery or anywhere near it yet, but i have hope.

thanks again and may each of your hp bless you.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:22 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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thank you and in my opinion, your recovery began when you decided that enough was enough and you reached out for help. coming here and posting was a giant step in the right direction. keeping you in my prayers
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:27 PM
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Jwife - I see you do exactly what you think is right for you, good, do that. You do seem very deffensive about others telling thier stories of thier survival thier own ways . If your life works for you I am very happy for you but for others it did not work (thank god). In my post i was generalizing on the people who leave addicts, that was the original subject of this thread, not about you staying with your A. Please don't be offended by anything that I post as I mean no disrespect but I will say your defending your position on staying makes me wonder who you are trying to convince that you are right and why? Everyone chooses thier own path, I have made my choice and you have made yours. Take what you want, dont slam the rest, to each his/her own.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:31 PM
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For me with my AD I had to first detach with anger. I had no contact with her for about 3 months. It was because I was working through my anger. I don't believe that it is healthy for the codie or the addict to be together in anger. Also I had to start to feel good about my boundaries. Also my expectations which caused a lot of resentment when she did not do things my way was a problem with me. I could not work through my issues and maintain a relationship with her at the same time. I needed the space that "no contact" gave me. I am in a better place both emotionally and physically now to have limited contact with her and be able to love her without trying to control or fix her. Marle
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:42 PM
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I must agree with what anvilhead posted. What is the intent of the addict? If they are trying and struggling, that is one thing, but if they are not detachment may be the one thing that saves their lives.

For me, I struggle daily with detaching but give it my best effort as I understand it and do so out of love. My view is that you must understand first how the addict manipulates and then understand that by allowing this behavior to continue, without any effort towards recovery, is actually helping him kill himself. I can't explain to my son that daddy is dead because mommy loved him so much that she couldn't just let him hit bottom once and then come back up, no mommy had to enable him by letting him come back home so that he continued in his addiction until it killed him! This is strictly how I have to look at things in order to understand that for me detachment is the single most loving thing I can do until crack addicted husband decides to get himself clean.

I do hope that this will help you to understand that I would detach from brother, sister, mother anyone that has an addiction because I want no part of helping them to their grave.

My philosophy is there are two ways out - recovery or death. If he isn't going towards recovery, I won't love him to death. Again, this is the only thing that keeps me strong. I have to say that I judge no one for continuing in a relationship unless it is abusive and if children are involved that is my hard line. No ifs ands or butts about it.

Let me also close by saying that when I look at any addict what comes to my mind is.....but by the grace of God, there go I.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Live2Ride View Post


My philosophy is there are two ways out - recovery or death. If he isn't going towards recovery, I won't love him to death.
Beautifully put.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:50 PM
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Well put Live!!!
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:10 PM
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because i am a recovering crack addict, i have to totally agree with anvil. i'm still with my rah now, and i know that there is always the chance of relapse for the both of us. it took for my family to cut me off and i'm forever grateful.
i will not hesitate to turn away from my rah like i have in the past, sometimes it took months and once it took yrs, but i believe that it was very important for me to not allow my rah to take us down with him, and thats exactly what he had began to do, maybe not physically but emotionally. i was literally going crazy and i just couldn't take no more.

my motives were not manipulative, they were out of desperation to save my own sanity. with the seperations and legal trouble that he found himself in, he found that need to seek help.

i didn't think that he was the under the bridge kind of guy and i believed like as long as he had a comfortable place to land, someone to provide for his basic needs, while he provide for his drugs, that he would continue to go out and use.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:57 PM
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I think that regardless of our relationship to the addict, we detach with love because the alternative is to hang on and go down with them.

I love my son, regardless of anything he has ever done. I learned a long time ago that I cannot live in his addiction and my recovery at the same time. I cannot save him, but unless I save myself there is a good chance that his addiction will kill me.

It's not pretty and it breaks our hearts, but the sad truth is that all the love in the world cannot save an active addict from himself. Only the addict can do that, when the pain of using becomes greater than the fear of stopping.

Hugs
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Old 03-07-2007, 06:33 AM
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No, Noah, I'm not in the least defensive about my situation. It just seems that everytime someone posts about their situation you immediately say RUN! You don't know their whole situation and whether or not they should RUN or not. I'm glad I didn't run. Will I always be there? I don't know. If recovery doesn't continue, no probably not. If you can't detach and still be in the same house, leave. BUT its not up to me, you or anyone else to decide that, its up to that person.

Talk about slamming someones post....sheesh...
If your life works for you I am very happy for you but for others it did not work (thank god).
Its fine. To each their own like I said. I have gotten far enough in my recovery to know that I am where I need to be in my life. Believe me, I have no need to question where I am at right now.

I just don't believe we should try to push people into leaving their SO's without knowing their whole story. Yes, if abuse is involved, absolutely leave, yes, if you are ready to leave but just scared, absolutely.

I know my opinion is in the minority here and that's fine with me. A few weeks ago, I gave up on trying to please everyone and hiding my opinion because I was scared of what someone else would think. I'm over it.

Your way isn't right for everyone, just as mine isn't either.

I'm done with this conversation.
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Old 03-07-2007, 08:00 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Please remember this thread was started by someone asking a valid question and looking for a variety of answers.

This is not the place to have a conversation or debate between conflicting opinions. Please, try to keep personal responses to PM or start a separate thread.

Everyone take a deep breath and remember if a thread bugs you, you have the easy choice of staying away from it.

Thanks.
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