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I understand, but then again I don't...

Old 03-05-2007, 07:34 PM
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Question I understand, but then again I don't...

so i have been thinking about this for more than a minute....

i haven't been a member long and i have not known the extent of my ah issues...our issues for that long either, but i must ask what may seem like a stupid question...valid, but naive and somewhat ridiculously hopeful...so here goes:

why does it seem like all the advice of posts about family members, sisters, brothers, children, cousins, whatever the family tie say to "detach with love, pray for their recovery, and hope they come back to their senses and back to your family"? and....

it seems like all the advice of posts to spouses, friends, boyfriend/girlfriend, lover, life partner, whatever say to "detach with love, pray for their recovery, and find someone new, forget 'em and move on with your life, you deserve better, etc"?

i know that people choose their spouses and friends and whatnot, but i also know that many people feel they were destined to cross paths with certain people or have just known someone that touched your soul...and its different and sometimes better than any family...because you did choose even tho, it feels like it was chosen for you by your hp or fate or whatever. some people just feel more like home, than actual home. i know that some people should not be together for whatever reason, and i know that sometimes you need to value yourself more, to get what you need and deserve from a certain relationship. i know all that, but what i am really asking is why is there not the same hope and sentiment? am i just missing it?

i am speaking mostly in relation to spouses, because that is my situation... but it just seems like todays society is not fight and work at your marriage or your friendship (almost like those people are not worthy simply b/c they do not happen to be related)...instead it's find someone else and start over. and if you do decide to stay or at least give it more tries than others feel is necessary, than you are judged as having low self-esteem, little respect for yourself and sometimes even enjoying the abuse you may be enduring. i know that is not what the majority of y'all believe and its certainly not what you post, but this has been nagging at me for awhile.

how come friends and spouses are not given the same courtesy to come back and the way family is? the bond is different, but is it one worth more than another? are spouses and friends disposable? b/c lemme tell ya, it sure don't feel that way to heart.

just some questions and thoughts. any and all response are welcome.

ps...completely off subject: are our previous threads going to come back or are we starting completely anew?
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:48 PM
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Welcome to Sr, I don't believe I have met you yet. My boyfriend, husband whatever you want to call him right now is my A in my life, he is a crack addict. I don't believe people actually feel as you think they do or maybe they do but I believe it's not as cold as it may seem. I dont know what drug your AH uses. But my abf uses crack and it eventually it takes his soul away so to speak. He becomes a heartless person when he wants money, when he is using he is not the person I love and thats the same to most people who are in a relationship with an addict. We could never change who are family is but there are many parents who have stopped all contact with their children just because they couldnt ride the rollercoaster ride with there child, because the pain became so unbearable that they couldn't be in the front seat any longer.

I am still with my abf and we have a child together. But if my best friend was with a crack addict I would tell her to run to the hills and get away from him. The pain is not worth it. A relationship is two people working together to make it work. Not one person fighting for a relationship and another person fighting to get drugs. Both people needs to be on the same page. No one really here says to leave unless it becomes abusive or if it has been going on so much that the people here see the cycle of it more than the member whose going through it that they point it out. Yes I have been told nothing changes when nothing changes, when I want it to stop I have a choice. I havent taken that choice yet but its my choice. Most people here don't judge thats not in our program. But they do care about us so much that they try to point it out to us how much pain we are in. We first come here to find away to fix out A's in our life but then we learn there isnt a thing we can do for them. But we can help ourselves, save ourselves whether with or A's or not. Stick around, keep reading and you will see what I am talking about.

There is also a saying here we use Take what you need and leave the rest. If someone says something to you that at the moment you dont agree with just let it go cause at that moment it doesnt apply to you. You never know though in the future you may go back and realize what a person said and it may help you.

Hugs,
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:54 PM
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Rule of Thumb: If you have to ask why in regards to moving on, detatching with love, etc., then you haven't hit YOUR rockbottom. I mean that with every ounce of respect. You will know when a decision needs to be made. Since you can't make the right decision FOR your addict, you must make the right one for YOU.

Last edited by faithhopelovejr; 03-05-2007 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:04 PM
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I hear what you are saying - confusing isn't it. Looking forward to some wise answers.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:19 PM
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I think the message that's sent is sent to both parents/siblings/etc. as the message to friends/spouses/etc. It's basically..... let go or be dragged. When an addict (or at least the addicts I know) is in active addiction, they have a tendency to suck the life out of everyone around them. Essentially, the message is..... the addict is going to continue on whatever path they choose regardless of what you want, but WE do not have to go down that path with them. My addict (one of them anyway) was my fiance and father of my son. Each day that I stayed throughout his addiction, he went deeper and deeper, and I went right along with him. Financially, I was ruined and at 27 years old, filed for bankruptcy. Emotionally I was absolutely distraught.... blaming myself for all that was happening. Thinking that I was the one that was bringing everything down. Physically...... I would just sit there...... sooo drained of energy! I think..... what we're all trying to say, is that it's not going to help the addict for you/us to go down with them. They're basically headed that way no matter what, and like them, we have the option to choose a better way of life.

That doesn't always mean leaving your addict. Some stay, and find ways to work through it. For me, the relationship had turned violent, against myself and my son, and the only real choice was to leave.

Hope that helps!
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:20 PM
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Detaching with love simply means you stop doing things for that person what they are perfectly capable of doing for themselves. My exabf used to have me call his probation, phone in sick for him, do things he could have done for himself, but chose not to because he'd rather be out smoking crack. By allowing them to take care of their own matters, it eases the pressure off of you some.......not to mention by making them responsible for their own actions, we stop enabling them which only makes it easier for them to use. One more thing......by making life too easy....giving them money, paying their bills, so on and so forth, again.........you just make it that much more easier to go out there and use.........where that leaves you is usually not a good place to be.
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:19 PM
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Those are very interesting concerns. Although "Detaching" is nothing like what you may think. I have "Detached" from my AH but that does not mean I kicked him to the curb and now I'm out finding another "replacement Dad" for my Son.

In this forum you will find alot of answers to your questions regarding the Addict in your life. You will also find many different people in many different situations. Many of the people are still struggling to fight this addiction with their loved ones. Many have been through sooo much pain, they had to decide to let their Addict, in there life, make the choices themselves.

You cannot make someone quit. No matter how much you love, yell, manipulate, cry or beg. What is unfortunate, is many of us spent years doing all of those and sacrificed our health, Mental well being, Safety, Love, Sanity, Self esteem, Trust, Emotions and our entire being .. to be hurt once again.

How long does one go on trying?
I pray for my AH, because I can no longer help him. It's the most I can do.
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:54 PM
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My Addict is my Young Adult Son

And I have come to understand detachment as finding my own ability to live a functional life that is not dependent on his moods or sucess with sobriety. Whether my day is good or rotten is not dependent on his mood or sucess.

I "detach" my happiness from his. And I will always be his mother, and I will always love him. But I had to find different ways to measure my worth, claim my God given right to happiness, and still support him in appropriate and non-enabling manners.

That is what detachment means to me, for what it is worth. Good question, and I credit you for asking the tough questions here. My limited experience here tells me this crowd can handle the hard questions and still leave you feeling supported and encouraged.
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:20 PM
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welcome to sr. i completely understand your confusion. everyone has given you good answers. just to add, we try to go by our own experiences, and help each other in that way. we do not judge. i have found that once i was able to seperate my feelings for my daughter & her addiction, i was then ready to live my life. i now enjoy my life. and i have the tools to get me though the bad times.

i believe we are here to share our hope, fears & strength.

good luck to you & keep coming back
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:29 PM
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the addict in my life is my son. i love him so very much. detachment to me means, there is nothing i can do to make him quit using or work a program so i do not even try.to do so spoils the time with him clean. when he is using he knows i will not give him anything to help him get high.detachment is letting him sit in jail for his consequences.i detach from his life of drugs. i do not detach my love from him, only his life of drugs. with a husband,or friend it is your choice to stay with him or leave him.it is all in what you want out of life.i want happiness & to have it i can not live with my son.i hope this helps you a little.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:03 AM
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4raidyance_wild
.. i dont know alot about you ,, im pretty new here too.
but im happy your bring this quetion up.
my husband is my addict, i love him so so muich and he loves me too we have kids together. .. the only big thing that makes us sad ,, i mean from thebig things ishis addiction,, its not easy ,, very hard for all of usincluding him.i dont belive in divorce,,, ,, i do belive thre is destiny should keep us together. i will nevr leave my husbnad completly,, even thoug we did hit rock bottom. any times. but what i do try o do, is to detach my self from being emotionaly depended on how he is,, its very hard becouse when you love someone and you see all the pain they are having and also causing you.. and my way of dteachment is knowing i cant controll, its not my faoult and go on when the day is dark.., im working on in im not there .
but my husband has been in reahb,, which was like 2,5 months,, in reha shorter times,, even with familyfor some time,, till he gets better. right now he went to rehab again a,, after being home for only few weeks after the last time in rehab.
some times in relationships if there is any kind of abuse,, like hitting and beatings than its really important to detach physicaly,,not just emotionaly.

for me now is the emotional part
and to survive this pain and emotional roller coaster i have to detach ,, meaning the 3 things ,, not to think i can control it,, not feeling guilty,, and keeping my life going for me and the kids. were married,, we will never divorce but we do detach in some kind of way to survive. till hes better, when he is rehab. so detachment doenst mean leaving your spouses,, divorcing them ot stuff like this.. it can be inside but at some point its very hard like now,,a nd hes back to rehab.
. im sending you good vibes,, and sending you prayers and coe back here,, you will get lots of suport here.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:03 AM
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i hope you will find som help here and advice tht you need, everyone here is so good like family
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:40 AM
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Hi (((4raidy)))

My husband is my addict too and I hear what you are saying. Some folks post on here do say that its much harder to have a family member as an addict then a spouse, however, I don't think that's the majority or even close to it. No offense to anyone, but some folks don't take the time to see that its just not as easy as leaving.

When you have a sober spouse, you have someone to rely on, someone to be there for you when things are tough with your addict and someone to lean on in the painful times. When your spouse is using, sometimes you just get to feeling like you are alone out there with no one to lean on. That's where your program comes in either way, by the way. With that said, I don't have an addicted child (or any child for that matter) so I haven't walked in a parents shoes.

Either way you go, your program will be what gets you back on track. Whether it be a mother, father, son, daughter, husband, wife, etc...dealing with addiction on any level is very hard.

Detaching from your addict doesn't mean running away, I'm still with my husband and thankfully he's clean right now. Detaching means letting go of his responsibility to recover and focus on your own responsibility to yourself. To take care of yourself, to make sure YOU have what you need, to give your self that extra little bit of pampering when you are stressed or upset. Allowing him/her to hit thier bottoms without being in their way is detaching with love.

I will never tell anyone to run unless it is a brand spanking new relationship and they finding out about the addiction because it is a hard road to travel and no one should have to travel it or if abuse is involved. I know its not as easy as some folks would like to say when they say just leave. Its not easy, I do feel like my husband is my soul mate and if we don't make it (and believe me, if he doesn't keep on his program and stay clean, then that is a very high probability) I'm not sure there is someone out there whose personality will match mine as well as his does. BUT, instead of dwelling on that and thinking about that I try to stay in today and enjoy what I have for today.

It's hard and and it might just get harder but you'll know when you have to do what needs to be done.

When I come upon a post that I feel upsets me I skip it.

Last edited by Jwife22; 03-06-2007 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:00 AM
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Let me try to explain where the parents and family members are coming from. Well at least, let me speak for me, I am new to addiction....I discovered in May that my 29 year old daughter is a junkie. She was a nurse, was a mother, had a car, an apt etc., etc. She is homeless now, carrying her bags on the street, hookin for money, and I am raising her son. Is she concerned about her son.....kinda....but the drugs come first!!

So I would say, after travelling to the depths of despair and watching the devastation that addiction brings....I could not imagine why anyone would choose to stay in that lifestyle. Because it is a choice as I see it. I am divorced from my 1st husband.....it's been 20 years of no contact.....so I have no clue what he's up to, nor do I care. If I could divorce my daughter....But you see that is no option. And I guess, I look at people staying with their addicts.....as addicts as well. And please don't take offense at what I'm saying...it's just.....I look at my daughter...and say...but don't you see??!!! Just do anything to get outta this spiral down into he11. And when ....normies....are staying....I'm thinkin.....WHY would someone stay, and be dragged into such chaos and confusion, hurt, despair....because their love is a one way street as far as I can tell. An addict can love no one but their drugs!!! And honestly, if your best friend was dating someone and discovered they were an addict ...could you? would you? tell them the life was worth it?? That love transcends everything??

Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone....I am an addict with my daughter....
NSW
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:15 AM
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(((NSW)))

Its not as simple as just up and leaving as you seem to think. Its not that simple. To me you seem to be putting down the rest of us who don't have addicted children as those who must like living a hectic lifestyle and its not that way at all.

I have HOPE for my husband and I LOVE my husband dearly. I don't take the institution of marriage lightly at all and REFUSE to jump ship at the first hardship. Now if it last and nothing is done to change it, yes I'll leave but I will give him the chance to FIND HIS RECOVERY and not leave at the first sign of trouble.

It is hurtful to think that you seem to think that simply because it is our spouse that we don't deserve the same respect as someone with a child as an addict.

I'm sorry if I sound upset, because I am. I'm sorry if I offended someone.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:33 AM
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No one should think that just because we are in a relationship that we can just up and leave it's not as simple as that. There is history, emotional ties, some times for some people you are closer to your spouse than your own family. One day you have a family and the next day the person is gone emotionally. That leaves the other person the one not using lost, feeling empty and just wishing to have their family back. We keep praying, wishing and be hopeful till there is no hope anymore. Some times people change, find recovery and we see that and think just maybe this time they will get it. We don't stay just because we like the drama, chaos and enjoy misery. At one point we made a commitment and to be a family together, grow a family together. How can it be so simple to walk away. Now I am not in any way advocating for someone to stay with an addict. Like I said in a earlier post if my best friend went through anything that I went through I would tell her to leave. But like they say it's always easier to give advice than to take your own. Right now I wish I can up and leave, never speak to him again but at this moment I am not ready yet. If it was so simple to walk away I would have done it years ago. When it comes down to it I love him but I also know I dont deserve what I am getting. So now I am working on detaching with love or anger whatever gets me there and from there working on leaving him because I know I deserve better. But please really the only point I want to make is just because we are not blood relation doesnt make the hurt any less. I dont know what it feels like to have a child as an addict but I do know what it feels like to have a mom, dad, and sister as an addict and really to be honest it hurts more now with my abf.

I hope I made sense I know I jumped around a bit here.

Hugs,
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Old 03-06-2007, 08:42 AM
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i think that you have posed some good questions. i understand your concerns, my husband and i are both rca's and i've been going through this cycle of addiction for 20yrs, and he's still around, for now. i understand what is said here. i think that the difference is more of a caring thing. i think, me as a spouse have just a little advantage over the blood family member who don't have much of a choice. the only choice that they have is to not take a front row seat to their addicts drama. me, on the other hand, have a choice to go on with my life with or without my addict. i can choose to deal with it on the sideline or not at all.

i don't believe that letting go means forever for no relationship, but for someone new to all of this, i too would agree with not allowing themselves to go through what i've gone through for these past 20yrs. it has not been easy, and the desease of addiction gets so much worse as time goes on. unless the addict commit to seeking help and staying with that help, i just don't see how he can get better.

it took for my family to cut me completely off before i had that "do or die" kind of determination to get clean and stay clean. i was forced into a position to where i was willing to do what ever it took for me to get clean and work just as hard to stay clean. my family allowed me to suffer the consequences of my own actions, all by myself, and it worked so far, and i'm now 5 yrs clean. same thing with my rah, i had to finally get so sick and tired of trying to be there for him before i was able to cut him off, and he ran for help and is now clean and sober.

you're young and nobody here wants to see you go through this for the rest of your life. there is no cure for addiction, the desease can only be arrested, and that's up to each individual addict. there is always the chance of relapse and it comes without warning, but if you decide to stay, like i did all of these yrs, just know that its no fun and its very important to work on yourself and do what you need to do to make your life better. if you choose to stay, i suggest that you do what you can to become self sufficient, that helped me so much in being able to seperate my rcah from his addiction. try to seperate yourself emotionally if you can, so that the effects of his action maybe not be so hard on you. when i came here, i thought i was literally insane and to scared to go to the doctor cause i was so afraid that i was gonna end up in somebodys asylum. thats how bad it got for me and i still don't know what would have happened to me if he had not gone to prison for 2yrs.

sorry that you are going through this. being an addict myself, i feel that it would be better for your ah if somehow you could let go and let god, just for a while, then he may be able to reach his bottom, go for help and be more determined to work to keep his sobriety. i can almost assure you that in the end, if he finds true sobriety, that he'll be glad that you did, the choice is always yours and we will support whatever decision you make. keeping all of you in my prayers

Last edited by teke; 03-06-2007 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:00 AM
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If all we can do is WAIT, then the question is...

... how long are you willing to wait?

For parents, while we wait, we receive (generally) from our spouses:

Social support
Financial support
Physical support
Emotional support


For spouses, while they wait, they wait alone - with little or no support.




How long can you live like that? For me, it calls up the question of what a life-long marriage is about. Some addicts never get well. Are you willing to spend the rest of your life on earth effectively alone?

The answer to that question is generally a process, with the answers changing over time.


Detatching, as stated above, is not about leaving. It is about living without your life being "directed" by the chaos of the active addict.

For those who believe in life-long partnerships, it may mean a physical separation during which time some of those "supports" not provided by the spouse are received in other ways.... sometimes at meetings, through volunteer groups, at work, or by becoming involved in activities and with friends.

To me, detatching means living my life to the fullest. To be the brightest, shiniest person I can be before this time is done.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:38 AM
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No one is being judged here. It's hard for us to see things from an addict's point of view and it's hard to see from a parental point of view if you are a spouse and vice versa. Notsleepingwell means no harm with her opinion, so please don't take offense. This place is not about that.

I have an addicted spouse and I've stayed with him through more ups and downs than you'd believe, and a recent overdose. I've never felt like one person here judged me for choosing to stay, but I do feel like people have and SHOULD give me a gentle nudge if I'm spinning my wheels, whining, feeling sorry for myself or all around not being PROACTIVE about my situation.

When people suggest detachment it's so we as loved ones don't lose ourselves to an addiction that doesn't belong to us. It doesn't mean leave, it doesn't mean stop loving.

If you've done any of these things:
snooping
reading his emails
checking his phone
counting minutes he's out of sight
controlling his money
calling him constantly
etc. etc. etc.

then you probably need detachment because you are probably driving yourself crazy. I have and do every single one of those things and they lead me to breakdown every time. And to me, I need to find a way to live my life without feeling like I am being dragged along. I know in my head that I can't base my happiness on his sobriety, but I do. I have to take baby steps, any steps I can to stop doing that.

It is NEVER about us not leaving because we "like" the chaos. Some of us function well under chaos, or so we think, that's true. Some of us don't know any other way to live BUT in chaos. But an addict doesn't like to be an addict and we don't like living with it.

Truly, the happiest people I've met are ones that control the amount they allow addiction to affect them. I've met parents here who've not seen their kids in YEARS because of addiction. Eventually, you could find another spouse. You can't find another child.

Clearly, I do not believe in jumping ship on my marriage at trouble. But it comes down to this: when the pain of staying is greater than the benefit recieved in the relationship, it is time to go...no matter if you are a parent or a spouse. Period. That doesn't mean we will all leave, or detach or whatever, but we should.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:53 AM
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(((4rw)))

I think it is harder to let go of a spouce than a blood relative because the thing is when we let go of a blood relative we are still connect to them and they will always be our relative no matter what...

Not always but sometimes letting go means we change our living situation and if this letting go leads us to leave our spouce it feels like our relationship with them will die...I have learned a little not much mind you but, I have found this out about my relationships with my As and I have 5 of them...With my blood relatives I keep much better personal boundries and I am now able to keep myself out of harms way concerning them...with my H it is another matter...however I know that in order for me to get some balance in my own personal life I just have to get some healthy boundries with him. How can I tell when my boundries are not in place? The main symptom is that I feel like I am going nuts....So what can I do to help myself? I have to decide what it is I need...I need my sanity mostly or I cannot function so I do things that keep me from going nuts like stop trying to control what my H does...he was using in our home and I had to tell him he could not do that anymore and if he does it again I will have to dial 911...I told him I was not trying to make him stop using only that I cannot be subjected to his using if he want to use go somewhere else and stay gone until he is no longer high...for now this is working for me but who knows when he might decide to get high at home again and then it will be up to me to deliver what I said I would. Oh and by the way my blood relatives would never even dream of coming around my house and using dope at my house cause they know I might just go bullistic on them....
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