A long road - Part 2
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Chicory......Yep, naturally, he is going to test the boundaries that you have set.
For the tough job of enforcing those boundaries....you will have to attend to yourself in order to stay strong and stay on "track". Staying with your therapy and support groups--to feed your own strength and growth--is just as important for you as it is for him. Maybe more!....remembering the rule about putting on your own oxygen mask, first?
Trust me...he is watching you. More than you ever know. I experienced this, myself with my own kids. I was just amazed at how tuned in they were to my every move...as it pertained to me tending my "fences". This is how they know where the holes are!! That is how they can monitor our vulnerabilities....to know when we weaken and which buttons, of ours, they can push.
I remember when I first started making big changes in the boundaries (as well as my way of dealing with them) it was actually very amusing (in retrospect, only)!
At first they were suspicious and very confused. They actually got together to discuss "what is going on with MOm?" "what is wrong with her?".
When I stopped responding to quacking...my oldest son actually came to me and asked if there was "anything I wanted to talk about"?
Once, I apologized to him for my role in enabling him in the past.....He said "don't you listen to those alanon people...you are a great m other and you shouldn't be criticizing yourself" (It was soo hard for me to keep a straight face).
There were times when they god "mad" and wouldn't talk to me.
I'm just saying that it is easy to relax when things improve to a degree....but, it is important not to let your guard down too much.....cause it will surely set things up for a backslide.
Also...I think it is just as important to say that expanding you personal boundaries is important....cause, there sure as He** is more to life than fighting power struggles with another person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still have a lot of life to live and enjoy, chicory.
dandylion
For the tough job of enforcing those boundaries....you will have to attend to yourself in order to stay strong and stay on "track". Staying with your therapy and support groups--to feed your own strength and growth--is just as important for you as it is for him. Maybe more!....remembering the rule about putting on your own oxygen mask, first?
Trust me...he is watching you. More than you ever know. I experienced this, myself with my own kids. I was just amazed at how tuned in they were to my every move...as it pertained to me tending my "fences". This is how they know where the holes are!! That is how they can monitor our vulnerabilities....to know when we weaken and which buttons, of ours, they can push.
I remember when I first started making big changes in the boundaries (as well as my way of dealing with them) it was actually very amusing (in retrospect, only)!
At first they were suspicious and very confused. They actually got together to discuss "what is going on with MOm?" "what is wrong with her?".
When I stopped responding to quacking...my oldest son actually came to me and asked if there was "anything I wanted to talk about"?
Once, I apologized to him for my role in enabling him in the past.....He said "don't you listen to those alanon people...you are a great m other and you shouldn't be criticizing yourself" (It was soo hard for me to keep a straight face).
There were times when they god "mad" and wouldn't talk to me.
I'm just saying that it is easy to relax when things improve to a degree....but, it is important not to let your guard down too much.....cause it will surely set things up for a backslide.
Also...I think it is just as important to say that expanding you personal boundaries is important....cause, there sure as He** is more to life than fighting power struggles with another person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still have a lot of life to live and enjoy, chicory.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Thank you FeelingGreat and Dandylion!
It's hard, being ever vigilant! ugh...
I hope you are right, that I have some life to live and enjoy. there are times I feel hopeless and think that my chance at enjoying life is dwindling away. I know thats not healthy thinking, but I am weary right now, but I will get better. I have to resume my therapy. I had not been back since he went. birthdays and so much to do on my days off.
but my sanity is the most important thing and my 'self defense' , so gotta take care of it. I don't have al-anon close by, but am wondering about some of the other groups. gotta get on the stick!
thank you, for helping me to stay grounded.... and for reassurance that this is how it is, for lots of people. doesn't mean that it's a washout.
He has another interview ! wow, he has had three interviews already! this must make him feel encouraged. he used to think that it was impossible.depression really holds you down.
hugs to all. I so appreciate you, so much.
It's hard, being ever vigilant! ugh...
I hope you are right, that I have some life to live and enjoy. there are times I feel hopeless and think that my chance at enjoying life is dwindling away. I know thats not healthy thinking, but I am weary right now, but I will get better. I have to resume my therapy. I had not been back since he went. birthdays and so much to do on my days off.
but my sanity is the most important thing and my 'self defense' , so gotta take care of it. I don't have al-anon close by, but am wondering about some of the other groups. gotta get on the stick!
thank you, for helping me to stay grounded.... and for reassurance that this is how it is, for lots of people. doesn't mean that it's a washout.
He has another interview ! wow, he has had three interviews already! this must make him feel encouraged. he used to think that it was impossible.depression really holds you down.
hugs to all. I so appreciate you, so much.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Sorry chicckie, but good for you on sticking to your expectations! He's not gonna use you as a doormat.
He needs therapy to grow into a functioning adult man.
Your own life and expectation is very important, i hope you go back too. Especially if there is no group you can join....she may know of some.
Please don't be so depressed, i know you have given up a lot.
Remind him to pay for his own cellphone too.
He needs therapy to grow into a functioning adult man.
Your own life and expectation is very important, i hope you go back too. Especially if there is no group you can join....she may know of some.
Please don't be so depressed, i know you have given up a lot.
Remind him to pay for his own cellphone too.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Chic - you are doing so well, and yes you have a lot of life left in you. Think of the precious times with your grandkids, and how fast little Jack is growing up! How important you are to them and the rest of your family.
My one uncle is bipolar, his son is schizophrenic, and they both mooched off g'ma's social security when she was alive. My other aunt and uncle refuse to enable them, and they have learned that the cost of living isn't free. If they spend their $$ on weed, cigarettes and whatever else, they have food stamps. If they sell them, they don't eat.
I would make sure that son knows he can't just turn the Internet back on. I assume it's in your name, and I would make sure your carrier knows that NO changes are to be made without your verbal approval.
Let him try to get it on his own. He will probably find out what I did, credit was not good enough and dad agreed to cosign it for me, but it's MY bill.
I didn't appreciate the true cost of living until I hit bottom and went from making over $50,000/year to minimum wage, and I was older than your son.
Yes, he may get angry, he may try to manipulate you and he will probably do both. Hard as it is, stand your ground. You told him what he needs to do to get Internet back on, and since it's under your control, you can change the rules to add "now that you're working, the money either goes into a savings account that you can show me the balance, or it goes to bills that are due to keep a roof over your head".
I do have an idea of how angry he can get, how he can twist things around to where he makes you feel guilty. BTDT. bratkin has done the same with dad and though he sent her $40 last night, he told her "my van is broke and without it, I have no work, this is the best I can do". All this is from them not working, can't drive the truck as couldn't afford insurance, and taking out a title loan on her car, which she may lose.
I glad it not in a position to help them, so they don't ask. If I were? I still would not give in as I don't see them learning any lessons. Actions speak louder than words, and their words are gimme, gimme, gimme.
Bratkin and I lived in the same house for 6 months and did not speak as I was tired of her selfish and drunk behavior. She tried to pick fights, I walked away or took off in my car. She finally told dad "I think I need to change my attitude" and she did, and we get along well.
I know you don't want to leave your angry son in your house, as he may do damage. However, you do have the right to say "this is my house and my rules. Don't like it? Take a walk and think about it. Now."
Scary to do it, but darned if it didn't change things when I lived in dysfunction junction, though it wasn't my house, I would still distance myself.
You can do this, you've already made some amazing steps forward. You also have a ton of support here, and I have no doubt you will find some more f2f support. So very proud of you!!
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
My one uncle is bipolar, his son is schizophrenic, and they both mooched off g'ma's social security when she was alive. My other aunt and uncle refuse to enable them, and they have learned that the cost of living isn't free. If they spend their $$ on weed, cigarettes and whatever else, they have food stamps. If they sell them, they don't eat.
I would make sure that son knows he can't just turn the Internet back on. I assume it's in your name, and I would make sure your carrier knows that NO changes are to be made without your verbal approval.
Let him try to get it on his own. He will probably find out what I did, credit was not good enough and dad agreed to cosign it for me, but it's MY bill.
I didn't appreciate the true cost of living until I hit bottom and went from making over $50,000/year to minimum wage, and I was older than your son.
Yes, he may get angry, he may try to manipulate you and he will probably do both. Hard as it is, stand your ground. You told him what he needs to do to get Internet back on, and since it's under your control, you can change the rules to add "now that you're working, the money either goes into a savings account that you can show me the balance, or it goes to bills that are due to keep a roof over your head".
I do have an idea of how angry he can get, how he can twist things around to where he makes you feel guilty. BTDT. bratkin has done the same with dad and though he sent her $40 last night, he told her "my van is broke and without it, I have no work, this is the best I can do". All this is from them not working, can't drive the truck as couldn't afford insurance, and taking out a title loan on her car, which she may lose.
I glad it not in a position to help them, so they don't ask. If I were? I still would not give in as I don't see them learning any lessons. Actions speak louder than words, and their words are gimme, gimme, gimme.
Bratkin and I lived in the same house for 6 months and did not speak as I was tired of her selfish and drunk behavior. She tried to pick fights, I walked away or took off in my car. She finally told dad "I think I need to change my attitude" and she did, and we get along well.
I know you don't want to leave your angry son in your house, as he may do damage. However, you do have the right to say "this is my house and my rules. Don't like it? Take a walk and think about it. Now."
Scary to do it, but darned if it didn't change things when I lived in dysfunction junction, though it wasn't my house, I would still distance myself.
You can do this, you've already made some amazing steps forward. You also have a ton of support here, and I have no doubt you will find some more f2f support. So very proud of you!!
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Chic, I think continuing your own therapy is a wonderful example of self-care and one that will make you feel better along the way.
You have both come so far, there may be setbacks but you are strong enough and wise enough to get through them.
One day at a time, never lose sight of that, it's just one day to figure out, then another.
Hugs
You have both come so far, there may be setbacks but you are strong enough and wise enough to get through them.
One day at a time, never lose sight of that, it's just one day to figure out, then another.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Amy, thank you, so much for your insight here. Some great ideas... put the money into a savings, and show me balance, or give me money for bills. I do want him to save for a car. more important to me than him paying bills! and leaves him the dignity of not handing money over to me to save. I don't like policing.
he isn't getting angry like he did before his talking to the therapist. something musta stuck. I think he will find it hard to get satellite on his own. true. and he can't change my stuff, I have that blocked .
sorry about the bratkins bunch.... I got a laugh from your comment though about actions being louder than words, and their words are gimme, gimme, gimme.. yes, they have a ways to go. they are smart and young and healthy and they will figure it out when they have no other options..
hugs.. and thank you!
Ann, yes, thank God I can take it a day at a time.... just remembering that is the hard part! I always try to carry the whole mountain....
And Fandy, yes, he surely needs therapy. Maybe he will decide to do that, someday. I can't imagine it, but you just never know. I have learned that.
love and hugs!
he isn't getting angry like he did before his talking to the therapist. something musta stuck. I think he will find it hard to get satellite on his own. true. and he can't change my stuff, I have that blocked .
sorry about the bratkins bunch.... I got a laugh from your comment though about actions being louder than words, and their words are gimme, gimme, gimme.. yes, they have a ways to go. they are smart and young and healthy and they will figure it out when they have no other options..
hugs.. and thank you!
Ann, yes, thank God I can take it a day at a time.... just remembering that is the hard part! I always try to carry the whole mountain....
And Fandy, yes, he surely needs therapy. Maybe he will decide to do that, someday. I can't imagine it, but you just never know. I have learned that.
love and hugs!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
What do you think, friends?
son is working, getting there on his own. made it to his interview with lowes yesterday am. no prodding, questioning or reminders from me.
My initial reason for shutting down the internet was because he was not coming out of his room, not looking for work(denied that, but I can tell , ya know?not leaving the house or making calls is pretty telltale), and overall was getting very depressed and negative, and angry.. destructive when we 'talked' about it.
went to counsel, but he only got as far as being diagnosed, which he now denies any diagnosis.*I think she maybe only shared her opinion about the personality disorder with me*, told him depression, anxiety and possible add. wanted him to see psychiatrist for possible meds to help. He thinks he does not need it.
anyway, hes been doing well at working, sharing about it, etc. I brought up the subject of financial handling of things..... that my objective here is to help him get on his feet, get his own place, and move on with life-mine as well as his.
He balked. I do like the idea of him getting a savings, dandylion.
Last night, he baited me, to argue, about the internet. he cannot skype(I knew that was a big part of his being mad) cannot see or send music or any videos....cannot do his 'developing of his portfolio-think thats how to put it- and is not able to send prospective business his stuff, they are asking for.
he got angry, argued, tried insulting, shaming, etc. later, I heard a big thump, like he hit something. not the door , this time, but I ignored it. He has not had a pay check yet, that comes thursdays.
anyway, I wonder how this might work?
I am thinking of suggesting that he start a savings.
show me proof of weekly savings.
give me something toward bills here, or get his food stamps renewed.
if he agrees to not drink in my home
continues to work and save
I will reinstate the internet as it was.
If he can still work, and use it responsibly, and not fall back into his non working stuff, I will be happy with that.
If he drinks here, obviously, I will shut the whole kit and kaboodle down.. internet, home phone, and cable...and save my money for what I NEED,,, car repairs, savings of my own, etc, and just wait til he gets enough money for his own place.
He told me last night that he was going to save his money for the first rat motel he could afford, and get his own. should I just wait and see if he does this? I told him that if he drinks here, and does not save money, I will shut off the pitiful excuse for internet that we DO have.
I just am not sure how to manage this. I am not going to my counsel yet, because I want to manage what I can, what I am learning, and save my money for when I fall apart because this is gonna all probably gonna fail anyway. no matter what. I fear his drinking is gonna be the big issue here.
I have been stressed to the max over this. and several other situations are not helping, but are fueling my anxiety.. argh!
son is working, getting there on his own. made it to his interview with lowes yesterday am. no prodding, questioning or reminders from me.
My initial reason for shutting down the internet was because he was not coming out of his room, not looking for work(denied that, but I can tell , ya know?not leaving the house or making calls is pretty telltale), and overall was getting very depressed and negative, and angry.. destructive when we 'talked' about it.
went to counsel, but he only got as far as being diagnosed, which he now denies any diagnosis.*I think she maybe only shared her opinion about the personality disorder with me*, told him depression, anxiety and possible add. wanted him to see psychiatrist for possible meds to help. He thinks he does not need it.
anyway, hes been doing well at working, sharing about it, etc. I brought up the subject of financial handling of things..... that my objective here is to help him get on his feet, get his own place, and move on with life-mine as well as his.
He balked. I do like the idea of him getting a savings, dandylion.
Last night, he baited me, to argue, about the internet. he cannot skype(I knew that was a big part of his being mad) cannot see or send music or any videos....cannot do his 'developing of his portfolio-think thats how to put it- and is not able to send prospective business his stuff, they are asking for.
he got angry, argued, tried insulting, shaming, etc. later, I heard a big thump, like he hit something. not the door , this time, but I ignored it. He has not had a pay check yet, that comes thursdays.
anyway, I wonder how this might work?
I am thinking of suggesting that he start a savings.
show me proof of weekly savings.
give me something toward bills here, or get his food stamps renewed.
if he agrees to not drink in my home
continues to work and save
I will reinstate the internet as it was.
If he can still work, and use it responsibly, and not fall back into his non working stuff, I will be happy with that.
If he drinks here, obviously, I will shut the whole kit and kaboodle down.. internet, home phone, and cable...and save my money for what I NEED,,, car repairs, savings of my own, etc, and just wait til he gets enough money for his own place.
He told me last night that he was going to save his money for the first rat motel he could afford, and get his own. should I just wait and see if he does this? I told him that if he drinks here, and does not save money, I will shut off the pitiful excuse for internet that we DO have.
I just am not sure how to manage this. I am not going to my counsel yet, because I want to manage what I can, what I am learning, and save my money for when I fall apart because this is gonna all probably gonna fail anyway. no matter what. I fear his drinking is gonna be the big issue here.
I have been stressed to the max over this. and several other situations are not helping, but are fueling my anxiety.. argh!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
Chic, perhaps I am being thick & admittedly I have been in & out of your thread over the weeks so I may have missed something here, but...
If the internet is SO vital to him, why can't he pay to have it reinstated in HIS name and become responsible for the monthly bill on his own if he needs/wants/intends to have it?
If he is working now, just like any other adult, this would become one of many financial priorities he'd have to learn to manage, right?
If the internet is SO vital to him, why can't he pay to have it reinstated in HIS name and become responsible for the monthly bill on his own if he needs/wants/intends to have it?
If he is working now, just like any other adult, this would become one of many financial priorities he'd have to learn to manage, right?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Thanks Firesprite. Fair question, no doubt, and in other situations, it would be the way to go, to have him pay for it.
My reason for not, is that I can revoke it, if he does not respect my no drinking rules. Another reason for why I do not want him to pay for it is that I want him to save money for a car. He needs a car to get a better job, so he can MOVE out, sometime hopefully before I move into a nursing home.lol
That is his stated goal. a car. no good jobs within biking distance here. and before winter comes -thats important. His current job is about two miles away.
I just offered this proposal to him... start saving, show me proof, no alcohol in my home and contribute to the household. first sign of alcohol use here(he does not seem to know how to drink one or two or three), internet is gone.
My biggest anxiety is that he will drink now that he has a job. He has had drinking issues in the past, when living with me. Bad issues. I expect that may happen again.
My reason for not, is that I can revoke it, if he does not respect my no drinking rules. Another reason for why I do not want him to pay for it is that I want him to save money for a car. He needs a car to get a better job, so he can MOVE out, sometime hopefully before I move into a nursing home.lol
That is his stated goal. a car. no good jobs within biking distance here. and before winter comes -thats important. His current job is about two miles away.
I just offered this proposal to him... start saving, show me proof, no alcohol in my home and contribute to the household. first sign of alcohol use here(he does not seem to know how to drink one or two or three), internet is gone.
My biggest anxiety is that he will drink now that he has a job. He has had drinking issues in the past, when living with me. Bad issues. I expect that may happen again.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
I understand, I guess it just still rings of trying to control his consequences to me.... and that doing it to make you happy & live by your rules won't necessarily translate to him learning to care for himself once that dynamic/obstacle is no longer there.
I guess it's confusing me because it's clearly an ultimatum & not a boundary? (which is something I've been thinking about a lot this week, so it may just be sticking out to me for that reason alone.....)
Food for thought this morning, thanks!
I guess it's confusing me because it's clearly an ultimatum & not a boundary? (which is something I've been thinking about a lot this week, so it may just be sticking out to me for that reason alone.....)
Food for thought this morning, thanks!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Thanks for the "credit" chicory......but I did not recommend the savings....although several others have.
Since you have asked for reactions...I can share my following ones with you:
First of all, be careful of what is a "rule" for him and a boundary for yourself.
Your main boundary (as I understand it) is to live free from his dependence on you....and freedom from uncivil or abusive behaviors toward you.
.......You have shared with him the following indicators of the road to independence that you need to see: Employment; obtaining transportation of his own; contribution to the household (food stamps/paying rent/household help--in any of these forms); not drinking or doing drugs in home.
Chicory...he KNOWS all of this..as well as you do! I caution against making too many "rules" of exactly how he goes about this....because that just gives m ore places to have power struggles.
Your goal is independence....his goal is to get you off his back and return to his comfort zone. He has done enough to see you "satisfied" and happy with him so....he is testing the boundaries by the "old" methods that always worked with you in the past.
And, chicory..I must say that it is working to a certain extent. I now see you becoming very pessimistic and stressed and saying "throw in the towel" kind of murmurings.
If you are not going to therapy and you predict failure....How can you possibly expect different from him? Remember he is watching you very carefully.
I don't think you should reinstate the internet to the former status...just because he got a job. You see no evidence of saving...getting a car....or any other of the markers of becoming self sustaining.
I believe that if you reinstate the internet.....that is preparing for an enormous backslide.
Do not let your guilt lure you into "rewarding" his behavior too soon. I believe that is what he routinely expects from you (based on history).
At least, you have the promise of shutting down what internet that he does have might be enough to keep him working.
For you to stop going to see your therapist and "wait till it all falls apart" is just self-destruction on your part. You need the therapy very badly--no matter what happens.
Pessimism; fatalism; easy discouragement; low self esteem; guilt... anxiety, etc....these things will follow you and undermine your personal serenity and happiness no matter what.
Actually if he did save his money enough to move out into a motel....o.k. Let him. Out of your house means freedom for you and independence for him. (personally, I think he is blowing smoke).
Chicory..I suggest to return to your therapist...start aggressively looking for a support group and keep those already stated boundaries tight.....
Keep facing forward....
dandylion
Since you have asked for reactions...I can share my following ones with you:
First of all, be careful of what is a "rule" for him and a boundary for yourself.
Your main boundary (as I understand it) is to live free from his dependence on you....and freedom from uncivil or abusive behaviors toward you.
.......You have shared with him the following indicators of the road to independence that you need to see: Employment; obtaining transportation of his own; contribution to the household (food stamps/paying rent/household help--in any of these forms); not drinking or doing drugs in home.
Chicory...he KNOWS all of this..as well as you do! I caution against making too many "rules" of exactly how he goes about this....because that just gives m ore places to have power struggles.
Your goal is independence....his goal is to get you off his back and return to his comfort zone. He has done enough to see you "satisfied" and happy with him so....he is testing the boundaries by the "old" methods that always worked with you in the past.
And, chicory..I must say that it is working to a certain extent. I now see you becoming very pessimistic and stressed and saying "throw in the towel" kind of murmurings.
If you are not going to therapy and you predict failure....How can you possibly expect different from him? Remember he is watching you very carefully.
I don't think you should reinstate the internet to the former status...just because he got a job. You see no evidence of saving...getting a car....or any other of the markers of becoming self sustaining.
I believe that if you reinstate the internet.....that is preparing for an enormous backslide.
Do not let your guilt lure you into "rewarding" his behavior too soon. I believe that is what he routinely expects from you (based on history).
At least, you have the promise of shutting down what internet that he does have might be enough to keep him working.
For you to stop going to see your therapist and "wait till it all falls apart" is just self-destruction on your part. You need the therapy very badly--no matter what happens.
Pessimism; fatalism; easy discouragement; low self esteem; guilt... anxiety, etc....these things will follow you and undermine your personal serenity and happiness no matter what.
Actually if he did save his money enough to move out into a motel....o.k. Let him. Out of your house means freedom for you and independence for him. (personally, I think he is blowing smoke).
Chicory..I suggest to return to your therapist...start aggressively looking for a support group and keep those already stated boundaries tight.....
Keep facing forward....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Well, I wasn't going to reinstate it until I see him saving toward a car.
sorry dandylion, it was Amy who suggested I suggest him to open an account. I was going to ask him to give the money he is saving to me to hold. and yes, that is because I want to make sure he gets a car and does not drink up the money.
I am just so desperate for him to get a car, a decent job and to leave here.
I feel uncomfortable about some of the ways I am going about it too. I do not want to be controlling or making his decision.. that is codependent and I am struggling here.
I want to remain in counseling. I just want to be able to do the right things on my own, instead of always doubting myself.
I know, its maniputation, to dangle the internet so he will save his money. but I want him to get a car...or he will be here forever! I will not throw him out, I know that. Unless he goes cookoo.
thanks, I am listening. just not very comfortable with this situation.
sorry dandylion, it was Amy who suggested I suggest him to open an account. I was going to ask him to give the money he is saving to me to hold. and yes, that is because I want to make sure he gets a car and does not drink up the money.
I am just so desperate for him to get a car, a decent job and to leave here.
I feel uncomfortable about some of the ways I am going about it too. I do not want to be controlling or making his decision.. that is codependent and I am struggling here.
I want to remain in counseling. I just want to be able to do the right things on my own, instead of always doubting myself.
I know, its maniputation, to dangle the internet so he will save his money. but I want him to get a car...or he will be here forever! I will not throw him out, I know that. Unless he goes cookoo.
thanks, I am listening. just not very comfortable with this situation.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Chicory....I gurantee, that the minute you would reinstate...he will stop the saving for the car. Removing his motivator will harm...not help....the situation.
I understand that your are uncomfortable at the moment...and I think his show of anger kind of rocked your world.
I think that becoming more clear with your goals will help some, also. On e one hand you say you want him to get a car and leave. On e the other hand you have said that you will never ask him to leave. Chicory..he knows that!! He can probably read you better than you read yourself...LOL! (they all can). This is one thing that staying in therapy can help you with.
I totally get that you are uncomfortable. You are outside of your normal comfort zone.
Remember that most of the significant strides that we make in life are usually done OUTSIDE OUR COMFORT ZONE. When people are comfortable..it is not in our nature to make changes....LOL!!
Personally, I think it is better to be uncomfortable than to feel depressed, hopeless and trapped.
dandylion
I understand that your are uncomfortable at the moment...and I think his show of anger kind of rocked your world.
I think that becoming more clear with your goals will help some, also. On e one hand you say you want him to get a car and leave. On e the other hand you have said that you will never ask him to leave. Chicory..he knows that!! He can probably read you better than you read yourself...LOL! (they all can). This is one thing that staying in therapy can help you with.
I totally get that you are uncomfortable. You are outside of your normal comfort zone.
Remember that most of the significant strides that we make in life are usually done OUTSIDE OUR COMFORT ZONE. When people are comfortable..it is not in our nature to make changes....LOL!!
Personally, I think it is better to be uncomfortable than to feel depressed, hopeless and trapped.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Personally, I think it is better to be uncomfortable than to feel depressed, hopeless and trapped.
I don't think that he would stop saving for the car, if he has full internet. I do think that he wants a job, wants a car, and his own place... but I would know , pretty quickly, if he was going to fall back into not working. Then I would have no choice but to turn it off completely, and get myself a tablet. I told him that, also.
I will not do this immediately,,, and maybe not at all... because he is probably gonna drink with his paycheck and then I will just turn it all off.
I really hope that he wants change. I think he does. He is trying hard, to find a better job, while working the one he has.
I will not do anything right now. I am just in a bad place emotionally. Granddaughter is having anxiety, and having to take xanax when they get really bad. someone at work is being vindictive, pushing my anger buttons too. I am trying so hard to control my reactions. all of this is messing with my head and I am awful-ising.
I meant that I won't throw him out-make him homeless. I have however, a dream of him moving and being able to manage that on his own.
my therapist diagnosed avoidant personality disorder... but he is going to work, interacting well, that I can see, enjoying getting to know others. going to interviews...etc. I wonder if he has avoidant at all, but perhaps there are degrees. He isn't really shy, but self esteem is low I am sure.
I am a mess today. ugh.
sometimes I think its depression, ADD, and anxiety only. and selfishness.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
chicory....when you look at the whole thing from the big picture.....
When you have reclaimed and forged a new and satisfying life of your own....these other things that we all face in life...(our children have problems; someone in the workplace gets in our nerves; the roof leaks; we need a root canal.....etc.) are inconvenient and challenge us......BUT, they do not slam us to the ground or permanently trap us.
When we can live our own life...we can still thrive (not just exist) and retain our ability to experience the joys all around us and be content to just be....
You can't sacrifice (martyr) your own life for anyone else's. No one of us can afford..nor should we....do that.
What I am saying is....claim your own life and happiness....and, be willing to do the work that it will take...
dandylion
When you have reclaimed and forged a new and satisfying life of your own....these other things that we all face in life...(our children have problems; someone in the workplace gets in our nerves; the roof leaks; we need a root canal.....etc.) are inconvenient and challenge us......BUT, they do not slam us to the ground or permanently trap us.
When we can live our own life...we can still thrive (not just exist) and retain our ability to experience the joys all around us and be content to just be....
You can't sacrifice (martyr) your own life for anyone else's. No one of us can afford..nor should we....do that.
What I am saying is....claim your own life and happiness....and, be willing to do the work that it will take...
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Chic, Dandy is speaking some powerful truth here. Please go back to your therapist, lead by example and I agree DO NOT give him internet. He is baiting you before he even has the first paycheck in his hot little fingers.
You really are living for his comfort it sometimes seems. Your own life is very important, you have squashed down yourself so he can grow up and there all these damn weeds in the garden.
why don't you think to yourself "i will revisit the internet turn on issue after November first" in the interim, get yourself some happiness AWAY from him, go out, buy the tablet, get brakes for the truck, go buy some fancy coffee and jammies too. Go flirt at the mall. go and have fun...just for YOU....forget about his issues for a little while, they will still be there when you return home.
hugs.
You really are living for his comfort it sometimes seems. Your own life is very important, you have squashed down yourself so he can grow up and there all these damn weeds in the garden.
why don't you think to yourself "i will revisit the internet turn on issue after November first" in the interim, get yourself some happiness AWAY from him, go out, buy the tablet, get brakes for the truck, go buy some fancy coffee and jammies too. Go flirt at the mall. go and have fun...just for YOU....forget about his issues for a little while, they will still be there when you return home.
hugs.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Hi Chic....get thyself to therapy...pronto! YOU DESERVE TO TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOU.
Now, about this savings. I don't think that is a bad idea at all. However, I would want to see X balance there before I would reinstate internet. That way he has to do some continual work for that.
As far as going to some rat motel....I am doubting that very seriously. He lives in your comfy home and shows no signs of wanting to leave it. To go to some crap hotel would be quite a shock to his system, and they would not have any internet either!!!!
Let him have a rewards and consequences system. However.....don't give out those rewards too freely or too soon.
That is just my .02 my friend. I will pray for the both of you.
XXX
Now, about this savings. I don't think that is a bad idea at all. However, I would want to see X balance there before I would reinstate internet. That way he has to do some continual work for that.
As far as going to some rat motel....I am doubting that very seriously. He lives in your comfy home and shows no signs of wanting to leave it. To go to some crap hotel would be quite a shock to his system, and they would not have any internet either!!!!
Let him have a rewards and consequences system. However.....don't give out those rewards too freely or too soon.
That is just my .02 my friend. I will pray for the both of you.
XXX
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Thank you for your help.
I just left message for my therapist to get me in next Wed..
I did tell him that this would not happen immediately. it depends on his saving and behavior. did not say when.. so that buys me time. good idea about a definite balance in the bank.
I wish to not be in such an unhealthy relationship with my adult kid.
by Dandylion....
last night, I was thinking of how my life has been full of disappointments, and how I feel pretty empty. I guess I figure if my kids are ok, then its enough happiness for me.
I honestly do not have a life. I am trying, but the depression from this situation keeps me down. I know better. But its just hard right now. If someone asked me , what would you do right now, to h ave fun, I would not know.
I am gonna have to rethink this whole thing. I have been soaking up 'Codie No More', for the last week.
finances are too tight to do much shopping or repairs, but I am gonna go get myself a new 'boulders foundation'..ha. and garbage bags..
thanks, I do not know what has gotten into me lately
I just left message for my therapist to get me in next Wed..
I did tell him that this would not happen immediately. it depends on his saving and behavior. did not say when.. so that buys me time. good idea about a definite balance in the bank.
I wish to not be in such an unhealthy relationship with my adult kid.
What I am saying is....claim your own life and happiness....and, be willing to do the work that it will take...
last night, I was thinking of how my life has been full of disappointments, and how I feel pretty empty. I guess I figure if my kids are ok, then its enough happiness for me.
I honestly do not have a life. I am trying, but the depression from this situation keeps me down. I know better. But its just hard right now. If someone asked me , what would you do right now, to h ave fun, I would not know.
I am gonna have to rethink this whole thing. I have been soaking up 'Codie No More', for the last week.
finances are too tight to do much shopping or repairs, but I am gonna go get myself a new 'boulders foundation'..ha. and garbage bags..
thanks, I do not know what has gotten into me lately
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
((((((chicory)))))). You are kind, smart, fun and an talented crafter! Is it possible to take some craft classes? Look around the community college or check with the local high school night classes. I know you like to knit, check the yard store or hobby hops to see what they have going on. It's not just to learn the craft, it's to have some uncomplicated companionship. check the book store and see if there's a Book Club.
You deserve to have some fun and enjoy your life. You're worth knowing and I think if would be good to have stuff outside of work and family to think about.
I can't really comment about the situation with your son. I haven't been there personally but did watch this go down with my mom. My sibs sucked the life out of her. you've come so far and worked so hard! Don't give up! you deserve it!
Love from Lenina
You deserve to have some fun and enjoy your life. You're worth knowing and I think if would be good to have stuff outside of work and family to think about.
I can't really comment about the situation with your son. I haven't been there personally but did watch this go down with my mom. My sibs sucked the life out of her. you've come so far and worked so hard! Don't give up! you deserve it!
Love from Lenina
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I agree, he will not go to the Ratmotel....(he is peeing on your leg and then telling you it is raining)...The comforts of mama's clean house and private bedroom suite/stocked free food kitchen, heat, AC, coffee, cell phone, cigarettes far outweigh Ratmotel.
PS...it does not cost anything to flirt and Barnes/Noble has free wifi...maybe someone would LIKE to converse with you and buy you a fancy coffee, hmmm?
PS...it does not cost anything to flirt and Barnes/Noble has free wifi...maybe someone would LIKE to converse with you and buy you a fancy coffee, hmmm?
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