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Old 04-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by choublak View Post
One of these days he's going to rant and rave in front of the wrong person...
Yes indeed. On top of all his other negative qualities we now learn he is racist as well.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:04 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Justfor1 View Post
Yes indeed. On top of all his other negative qualities we now learn he is racist as well.
You know, that's one of the reasons that I was glad we moved from Baltimore to AZ!!! I didn't realize that he was a racist, I just thought he was uncomfortable around blacks. I was so ready to move here and I researched the stats on the state to find out the distribution of races in the cities here. I never saw the problem, DUH. I don't even think I knew I was doing it consciously. I just remember thinking, "boy, this guy really hates blacks so I guess it's best that we move somewhere where blacks are more of a minority." I had a crush on a black boy(man, he was a good looking football player, too, LOL) while in high school, never told my AH this ever. I guess there's a reason for it, I just never realized I kept that to myself.

I never,until recently, saw the grand scope of what I was dealing with. His 'stuff' would only rear it's ugly head every so often and then I'd conveniently forget the previous rant because the next one would be something else and completely different. It was like he kept moving the mark, changing the subjects of the tirades, and I couldn't keep from spinning out of control.

FYI: since he's been on antidepressants in the past year or so, the rants have stopped but I think that he's suppressing them when at home because I heard plenty in the marriage counselor's office which was a HUGE clue to me that he wasn't changing.

A friend of mine in program (who has many people sponsored) told me recently that the answers I seek will be in the steps. So, I just keep putting one foot in front of the other and work my program. He may change, he may not. I finally have to let go of control of that one, no matter what or else I'll continue to lose my sanity.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:23 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Liz, when are you going to deal with your addiction issues?

As a former spouse-a-holic it is rather easy to spot. Took me a long time to get past the denial and move on with my recovery.

But then again I didn't join this forum until after I left.

So, when are your going to put down the self righteousness and victimization and accepting what is clearly unacceptable behavior and start admitting you've got a problem and your problem is that you are addicted to him?

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Your friend,
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:27 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Sheesh Liz, you seem like a beautiful caring person. What the heck keeps you with this guy? Aside from alcoholism, he sounds like just a nasty mean person. I would be hard pressed to stay with a man with those morals and values. Kids on not. It makes me sad to think you ,your son, and your puppy live like that. Take care.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:14 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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How old is your son?
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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I never,until recently, saw the grand scope of what I was dealing with. His 'stuff' would only rear it's ugly head every so often and then I'd conveniently forget the previous rant because the next one would be something else and completely different. It was like he kept moving the mark, changing the subjects of the tirades, and I couldn't keep from spinning out of control

Liz, this really resonated with me. Looking back with my AH, I could not see the forest for the trees. I think he knew that I wanted to "fix" things and he would consistently present me with a new flaw in himself or problem to focus on. (Or, more likely, I would search for some flaw or problem that my sick mind deemed as manageable/fixable) Of course, I could never "fix" anything. But, the trees kept me on the hamster wheel. When all along, it wasn't just his alcoholism, or his inability to deal with his brother's death, the fall of the economy and his businesses, his temper, his misogyny, his inability to relate to our anxious son, etc.......all these components that I thought I could chip away at and reveal the husband I wanted him to be - it was just him.
I got so caught up in each little tree - I couldn't see that the forest was a very, very bad place for me.

You seem to be so completely intertwined with him and all his "stuff" - I hope you can find away to untangle.

Hugs,
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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I spent a lot of time trying to protect my A from himself, by not mentioning stuff that might send him off on a rant, by trying not to get him angry...I took on the responsibility for keeping him a 'good person,' by trying to control his sh1tty behavior.

It sounds like not mentioning your high school crush, being happy about moving to AZ is along those lines.

I was afraid to face the truth of who my A was, b/c I think deep down, I knew I'd have to remove myself from the situation. Al-Anon was a great source of comfort for me. I also realized that my A started to agree, that it was EVERYONE else's job to keep him kind--and if he acted like an A55, well, it was obviously that idiot driver, his stupid family, annoying coworkers, me, disrespectful kids, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Good luck to you!
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:12 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Dear Liz, these things have been going on for about 18yrs, and nothing has made a difference so far. As much as you complain about him...I believe that you are in your comfort zone with him. Liz, wild horses could not drag you away from that man.

AND, THAT IS O.K. You get to decide who you want to spend your life with. We all do.

I agree with what you just said, about just going about the business of working the alanon steps. I endorse your doing that. Make the very best out of your life that you can--that is what the steps are for. No one will tell you to leave him. You can still have him and find other ways to experience some joy in life. You aren't going to leave, anyway--so, doesn't it make sense to make the best use of the years that you have left?

It just kills me to see others (and myself included in this group) spend so much sincere time and energy to support a poster that has no real desire to make the changes that they "imply" that they want.

So, I say that working the alanon steps might help you find serenity and companionship---regardless of what your husband does--or doesn't do.

very sincerely, dandylion
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:50 PM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
You know, that's one of the reasons that I was glad we moved from Baltimore to AZ!!! I didn't realize that he was a racist, I just thought he was uncomfortable around blacks. I was so ready to move here and I researched the stats on the state to find out the distribution of races in the cities here. I never saw the problem, DUH. I don't even think I knew I was doing it consciously. I just remember thinking, "boy, this guy really hates blacks so I guess it's best that we move somewhere where blacks are more of a minority." I had a crush on a black boy(man, he was a good looking football player, too, LOL) while in high school, never told my AH this ever. I guess there's a reason for it, I just never realized I kept that to myself.

I never,until recently, saw the grand scope of what I was dealing with. His 'stuff' would only rear it's ugly head every so often and then I'd conveniently forget the previous rant because the next one would be something else and completely different. It was like he kept moving the mark, changing the subjects of the tirades, and I couldn't keep from spinning out of control.
Moving doesn't solve a problem like that. He will just find a different group of people to hate, or another cause to rail on. It's not about race, it's about a need to find an enemy and feel superior. About anger and selfishness and a personal feeling of inferiority.

Sorry you are living with this.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:13 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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The need to be validated and right are very codependent behaviors. I remember when I would of rather have been validated, miserable and just complain to friends because I really wasn't ready or wanted to change. After all, it was all him that had the problem. Haha
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:49 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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I have to agree with Mike here Liz. You have written very, very little about this man that is good.

You seem determined to try and MAKE him say, do, act the way YOU want him to. Honestly "Vagination of America" made me laugh. The comment about the pants....that sounds like something my husband, or parent, or friend would say to me. Hell, I would probably say it to them.

It seems to be obvious to everyone but you that this is an irreconcilable situation. When comments that are not offensive become offensive the breakdown of that relationship is at the lowest. If he tells you something good it is suspect if he acts like an ass it is typical.

Frankly Liz, the fact that he thought you were stating that you want a divorce (sorry but that's the problem with email and text it is VERY easy to read something into it) and didn't seem to be bothered with it - in fact gave you his blessing to move on and find happiness says it all.

I am not even touching on the obvious - his alcoholism, verbal abuse, lies, etc. etc. etc.

I am so sorry, you have been through a lot - its time to move along with life and as your husband said "find your happiness".
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:37 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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I just wanted to share here that in my situation, one of the hardest things that I had to come to terms with was accepting that my AH was actually not a nice person. I have no idea if the good qualities that I saw i the beginning disappeared due to his alcoholism, or if he just hid it really well that he was basically a complete jerk. My AH is racist, judgemental, etc as well. I see a lot of my AH in what you say about yours. It also took 3 times of leaving him to finally let go of trying to make it work.

We all have our own time frames of when we realize that we cannot ever communicate in any normal sense of the word with them. I am a great communicator, I have always resolved issues by good communication and totally believe that all things can be worked out by talking together and finding solutions together for any problem.

But here's the thing Liz: Normal communication methods DO NOT WORK WITH THEM.

It took me so long to realize this. When you share your feelings in a non-judgemental way about something he did, and ask that he respond differently, IT DOES NOT WORK. The reason it does not work is that they do not care what your feelings are. They whole being is about getting through each and every thing in their life to protect what THEY have--a somewhat comfortable life where they can drink. Period. If they have us in that wonderful codependent place...all the better for them. It is all about them. It is about how much better than they are in their job, better than all other races, better than YOU.

This has been my experience and so I thought I would share it because I see in you the "great communicator" that I was/is. Keep taking care of you and your son in this journey Liz. Your son is lucky to have you as Mom.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:06 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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We know a lot about your husband, especially his dirty laundry. We don't know much about his good points, except that he makes a good income.

I'm going with you want to leave for discussion sake.
It's ok to want to grow beyond a relationship. If you married too needy, too insecure, it's ok to accept and acknowledge that. It's ok to want to move on from that. It's ok that you had those issues and that you no longer want to be needy, dependent, etc. Talk about that.
For example...when I wanted out of my first marriage, I focused on my husband's dirty laundry. This is WRONG. I was the one that wanted OUT. I should have been focusing on me, and the guilt I felt getting out. Don't scapegoat the guy if YOU want out. OWN what is yours to own.
If you have religious problems with divorce, then you need to work through them. That's yours. Talk about that.
If you have income problems without him, then that's yours. Talk about that.
What else is yours?
Let's talk about YOU!
No more HIM!
YOU chose him to marry. YOU. Nobody else. Accept that.
If you want to un-marry him, then choose that. Ok, again, that is YOUR choice. It will always be YOUR choice.
YOU are fence sitting. Not him.
You could try throwing yourself into the marriage with both feet, dragging that one that is half-way out the door back in, a last ditch effort if you will, six months...but fully committed, fully accepting him of who he is, working with his strong points, positives, no longer focusing on the negatives.
It will help you find your way....either way.
Or you could simply get out. No more fence sitting.
What is in Liz that keeps her fence sitting? What does Liz need to stop fence sitting?
See...the real questions and answers are about YOU...not him.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:16 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
LOL!!! He has serious issues with women, that's why.

So, I guess that's why I told him I found his vaginization of America comment offensive. It wasn't just an offhand remark to be funny, it's truly an issue with his values and thinking about women in general.
I agree. It sounds as if he doesn't even like women.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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Sounds like a terrible role model for your son.
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