Itchy

Mike and M1k3, thanks!

I am at a total loss of how to start guys. That is the reading topics I need to get to first. I have never been divorced, and am going to have to go look for some work. I am toying with an offer to keep the property and give her the money but that won't work as by law she gets half my military retirement, so I would not have the extra funds to take care of things like tree removals and fuel to mow 5 acres. It looks like just a sale split it up and go our separate ways. Nopw I hjave to decide on lawyer as she is an alcoholic and will try to play the victiom now a hundred times worse than before.

Even before she drank she could never say sorry and was always fearful of being wrong.

I will unload all the guns and hide the ammo elsewhere just to be on the safe side. If she is going to drink herself to death I don't intend to join her.

Itchy

choublak,
Yeah I know I was also a counselor at a university in a past life too. The women came in to our student well health clinic 10 to 1 over the guys. The reason I asked is that the guys are also victims and most times are classified as wife abusers when the wife pushes it to the max. I read several sites and heeded that advice well. She is actually physical and I just sit on her for ten minutes and she usually will calm down. That is also happening more often lately. She really needs to get her consequences on this as she is going to die from it if I keep enabling her, and will have a better chance alone if ever. I sure can't help her. In her mind I am her excuse. Then she will be a victim from lack of funds and my leaving. Funny but maybe this is the push I need to get engaged in life again. I sure don't need to drink over it. I think I have already been there and done that.

Sobriety is great that way. We can see clearly. And do what needs to be done. Even if it hurts initially, then heals as I will surely. I feel better already. Hope I can lick my addiction to her now as easily as I did alcohol.

I am slow but I get there once the addiction hurts too much. She doesn't, I think she thrives on the pain. I am also shocked at how she thinks by what she projects onto me when she is drinking and supposedly mind reading.

She has no clue that what she accuses me of that I never did, says clearly that that is exactly what she would and does do. My mind does not work that way, thus my ensnarement trying to help when that is the problem for me.

DesertEyes

Got it. Start here

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...c-reading.html

Book lists are here

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...book-club.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...406-books.html

My personal fav's for getting started are:

UNDER THE INFLUENCE by Milam & Ketcham

GETTING THEM SOBER - YOU CAN HELP by Toby Drews

We don't give advice here because none of us are licensed professionals. All we can give is our personal experience. Having been in the "business" of drunks and guns for several decades here is my experience.

If you unload all the guns the only person who knows they are unloaded is you. Many times the drunk will put a gun to their head, the neighbors panic, the cops show up, and the cops do not know the guns are unloaded. My experience is that the only safe place for guns to be when there are drunks around is some other place. Take them to a friend who has a safe, take them to the gun club, rent a storage locker, last resort take them to a pawn shop and _pay_ them to keep them.

The links to reading material will keep you busy for awhile. You will find a lot of terminology that is a little different; enabling, letting go, one day at a time. Start another thread with whatever questions come up. You will get a lot of answers, and you will help the huge number of people who visit SR but never post their own questions.

Glad to meet you, Itchy, but sorry you had to come here.

Mike

lillamy

Not a guy, but I'll welcome you anyway -- I remember talking with one of the Mikes a way back about the difference between being a man with an AW and a woman with an AH, and saying that... sometimes, it's probably harder for a man to leave because you guys are so raised and trained to take financial responsibility for your wife. Women, OTOH, are raised to take emotional responsibility for our husbands. So maybe it evens out somehow. Either way, neither one of us is really responsible for the choices of our mates, and there's not much we can do to control them, try as we may.

This may be as good a place as any to mention that I read about a study this week on women alcoholics: They had tested the seratonin levels (the feel-good hormone that prevents you from getting clinically depressed) and found that after four years of daily or almost daily alcohol consumption, women's seratonin levels had dropped by 40 percent. (For men, it took significantly longer to get to that level.)

I don't know how that plays into anything, but I was thinking that if alcohol affects women's seratonin levels differently than men's, maybe it affects other aspects of her brain function differently, too?

And I'm not trying to slide back into focusing on the alcoholics here -- but I've found that the more I learn about this disease, the more I can let go of the anger I've carried towards my AXH, and the more I can develop a compassionate attitude, in spite of it all.

changeschoices

I hope you don't mean you are actually sitting on your wife when she gets physical with you. If you are being abused, you need to do what women do: get out of the house, and call the police. File a restraining order if you need to. Call your local domestic violence hotline to learn how to get help.

Cyranoak

...and I've posted north of 1,000 times here.

I don't post as often because I've said most of what I have to say, have run out of things to say, and don't allow myself to post on threads of women who are in denial about their abuse or their husband's drinking (which eliminates a ton of the threads). I do more harm than good when I do that.

I do come here almost every day, and do post when I think I can help as part of the 8th Tradition, but I'll tell you this-- I've got 13 years of experience living and dealing with my alcoholic wife (now in recovery), and I'm getting a redo with my 16 year old daughter (good times).

When I feel like I have experience or strength to share with you I'll do just that. I'm not big on hope. I'd encourage you to do some research into the old threads, especially those of the various Mike's, and mine too. Also, don't discount the women-- many of them have great recovery and amazing perspectives I think apply across genders. Tuffgirl is awesome, Getting By when she stops by, and Anvilhead who, while clearly a woman, posts like a man (but I may be biased-- she and I agree 99.9 percent of the time). And English Garden is friggen' Obi Wan Kenobi blended with Ghandi, shaken with common sense, and poured into a recovery glass. I read her stuff just to read it. Damn she's good.

Take care my friend-- I'll be around.

Cyranoak

Tuffgirl

Thanks Cy! How nice!

Welcome to SR, I hope you see there are plenty of men around here - at least those who we haven't scared off yet!

Keep coming back,
~T

djayr

There are a number of guys on here, I'm one of them, just muddling through a legal separation after 17 years with AW.

I'm still all tangled up with her, so I'm just going one day at a time.

She was never violent or verbally abusive, but she sure has frustrated me, and made me feel like crap by being unfaithful.

Just wanted to represent the male persuasion and say welcome.

Itchy

Thanks for the welcome Tuffgirl! But I have been around SR for almost a couple of years.

Itchy

Thanks all and I will get my head able to post answers to each as I go. Six hours of sleep and I need at least 8 and here I am doing it again, middle of the night, brain dead, but a quiet night for a change.


I am going to try to feedback a bit. Guys that are six feet tall and have a 5foot 2 petite wife aren't taken seriously by LE claiming abuse. Yes I have sat on her several times in 40 years. Even that can be claimed assault by women with some chance of getting away with it.

Guys just aren't abused in the eyes of most women and men. Both of us have been LE, me military and weapons training, she was police and later a deputy City Marshal. I would not believe me on a domestic call. And many times men claiming abuse are looked at askance and folks say one thing and think something entirely different.

I am glad to hear that the gals here are straight up by and large. But bear in mind I am not the wilting violet kind of guy, nor the bull in a china shop macho man. Aw heck, time for me to crash, I am rambling. I will be more attentive tomorrow.

Night all.

mattmathews

Another guy here. Too stubborn, too proud, or too scared to ask anyone for help until the very last possible moment. Now blessed with a wife in recovery. But even more blessed to have found a program for myself.
Welcome to SR.

DesertEyes

No worries, Itchy. This bunch here on SR has _lived_ it, so we understand. My ex #2 is 5'2", 110lbs by the scale. She's a biker chick, comes from a family of bikers and Marines. Uncle is retired Recon, Aunt teaches urban combat, other Aunt is FBI, etc. etc. etc. When #2 lost control of her addiction and the violent rage took over people's lives were at risk. There's nothing more dangerous than a finely honed weapon out of control.

I was lucky. By the time I met #2 I already had a couple years of al-anon under my belt, else I would have responded in a co-dependent manner and become an abused spouse myself. I am not going to have violence in my family, will not be on edge all the time because I don't know when the spring is going to snap and the missile fire on it's own. Ex #2 had no interest in my perspective so we parted ways.

Then I went and dated a Navy Spec Ops lady ( not a SEAL, but close enough ). So I am still in need of some "adjustments" to my "radar" when it comes to who I am attracted to

Mike

Tuffgirl

My bad Itchy - I knew that - meant to say this side of SR. ; ) Sometimes my brain is moving way faster than my fingers as they are typing.

I have to agree with you on the abuse point. I have been witness to it happen...my Mom has a pretty violent manic episode, attacked my Dad, then called the police on him claiming abuse. They, of course, hauled him away, even though he had a gash on his head.

However, recently one of our regular posters had the same situation happen in reverse, only with her AH, and she was arrested. Go figure.

soberlicious

You are quite correct. Many women know this too, or at least I did. When I was a drunk, I would often become quite angry. I tore stuff up around our house, hit my ex, spit at him, spewed verbal venom, and goaded him in any and all manner. Pretty dark and disturbing stuff to look at in yourself. He did not ever return the violence, but did restrain me many times. It was quite the predicament for him, as you stated above because he was 6'1" 240lbs to my 5'4" buck 15. Were he to call, he would not be believed. Even in restaining me, he would have been taken, not me. I knew that. I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer, I'm saying I hear you. It is a shame that women like me (when addicted) can play the system when it comes to domestic violence. It takes away from authentic and urgent domestic violence situations that need to be addessed. I have experienced those as well, well after I quit drinking. I'm not a program person, but I am what is coined a "double winner". I am sorry you are going through this, Itchy.

lol...me too. The picker's broken...but not near as bad as it used to be. "Strive on with diligence"

BTW...obviously I'm not a dude, but friends/family tell me I'm very "dude-like" in my thinking...whatever that means LOL

Itchy

Sorry to have left you all hanging as if i hadn't read each word and appreciated it. Heck, y'all have no idea.

Today I told my AW that I wasn't putting up with the nightly screams drama, and escalations to work out her angst. Last night was her B'day and she got pretty tanked, slurring and unable to understand simple sentences and not wanting to. She tried to turn a simple complement on her potato salad into an excuse to start a rage over. She had made several tries earlier. On that one I asked her to please rein herself in, which works occasioanally. It didn't work and I told her to can it as I did not want to have to leave. We finioshed watching the Billboard awards and she calmed herself enough to get through the evening for me fine. Of course she was throwing dark looks etc.

Today I decided was the day to finally breach the subject, and while she was sober to ask her to either stop making every night her vile and poison attacks on me to work out whatever anger issues she can't deal with herself. I asked her to either be happy with our life even though the house wasn't big enough or fancy enough for her, or to leave. Well it was like a switch was thrown. In the iold days she would have apologized realizing she had stepped way over the line. Now she has tramp-led that line so often and been so outrageous that apparently she is no longer able to separate her alcoholic rages and drama from her sober day life.

As soo as I made that request she flew into a rage and turned away while she started talking. THat is significant as now she doesn't care if she destroys our relationship with lies, she will just do anything, even when sober, to try to play her dramas to get her way which is to keep things exactly the same. How is she going to keep things the same? BY threatening to leave me. She immediately said that it is time to cut our losses and that we needed to split everything up and go our separate ways. I tiold her fine, not rising to the bait. I said it is Monday and I agree with you. Because I can't change you, and and you won't change yourself, and say you are miserable yet won't do anything about it I am glad this precipitated your actually making a decision about it.

So please do go see a lawyer and get the ball rolling I will cooperate and make it go smoothly. I did remind her that when she does all will need to know why, and I am one of the ones who does not wish to take the blame for her anymore.

She acted like I was playing her game and I had her read all my posts especially one over in the Over One year club outlining how she not only won't be getting a ridiculously large house when we have a great one inside and out, that she is just not satisfied with, but making sure she has to work a real job. At present she works part time once or twice some weeks, some weeks none, and some few all week. She already said it suited her as she does not want to work daily 9 to five and punch a clock. Because of me she has never "had" to work since she was 18.

In any event she now knows I am not bluffing or playing control issue games at all.

I am pretty tickled. She then said she has to think about things, this one minute after saying that things were not negotiable we were going to split. That before I had her read. Then she tested the waters, with her ultimatum which I accepted and told her to go make her own wishes and decisions happen, contact a lawyer, and took the dogs for a walk.

While I would love to not have to go through all of this and would just like some peace, I always knew and told people that peace is not a gift, and no one can give it to you, you have to take it, take peace. I am taking peace one step at a time. I am looking for an Alanon group here locally first. And second I am starting to read the links and threads here.

Tuffgirl and Sober you both are fine by me.

I am not and never will be a woman hater. I just did not think women would understand the guy side. Sober your post was much appreciated. It taught me that there was hope for her, with me or without me. I do love her after all. But I am beginning to think that perhaps she has all along been co-dependent, and perhaps needs her own freedom. To sink or swim on her own. But it can only stay the same if it changes. She would have to on her own decide to get sober, and save herself. I can support that. But sober or drunk I can't be her whipping post any longer.

It is funny buit the first time we ever had violence in my home was her. I was not raised with violence, quite the opposite. She was. I don't remember what it was but she attacked me with a knife which I took away and sat on her. That was in our second year of marriage. I also had to do that when she tried to attack our teenage son after doing her drinking baiting game.

She has gotten so bad that when she can't use me she tries to verbally abuse the dogs. Not physically, she got bitten once she scared one so badly with her tirade, no I wasn't putting down a dog that has never bitten except when cornered and terrified. I train all the dogs, and did not want any more after we lost our Bogart. She insisted and I said no, I wanted to trravel more and did not want to kennel them or have to vacuum daily to keep the dog hair cleaned up, not to mention the fenced portion of the back yard. She swore that if we got another dog she would clean up after them and vacuum every day if that is what it takes to get them. I told her that if that is what she will do then I can go along with that. That lasted about six months. Now even though the house appears clean there is dog hair everywhere. And no she does not clean up the poop in the yard.

It is like living with a teenager all over again. The problem is that I won't play daddy to her child, and certainly won't play child to her scolding mother.

On my worst day as an alcoholic, I never hurt another, or got mean. I had to make definitions for my subordinates in my career and one of them I wrote was that "Evil is when one derives pleasure from harming another. Be that verbal, emotional, or physical harm." That was back when she just started drinking heavy in the 80's.

This should prove interesting at least. I have asked her to go to counseling numerous times and she refuses. Last time I told her that she would have to leave and now she is playing the sell and divide card. Which is fine with me. Her love for me left more than a decade ago, her contempt I tolerated for the sake of the children. No more. If she drops the ball on this she will be in AA and counseling or trying to sell her stuff as well as she can from a distance.

She isn't that stupid, but then again, I give up predicting. Maybe she will cut off her nose to spite her face. I do know this, I sure would never quit because of another saying I should. I also have only mentioned her drinking too much it when she was at her worst, and it used to work for her to rein herself in, but only mentioned it maybe five times in the last year.

I am not into control issues and drama is distasteful to me. I have never touched her except in self defense. But the days of thinking it unusual for her to be over-the-top-mean-and-threatening are over. The days of her having remorse the next morning are over. She has found another lover, and Scotch is the jealous type. I think I will leave before her lover gets violent.

If I am the cause of her unhappiness because I won't go back to work to get a bigger house, I really want to see how she handles losing it all, and going back to living on the property of another. Most likely she will move in with her parents.

I will read and keep posting. Thanks all for your feedback that there are other guys who were as pig headed as I am. I want her happy, but alcohol will never allow that. Otherwise why would she drink?

I have got to find a local Alanon group.

AlwaysGrowing

Been through this.. Do you really think she will get a divorce started? After all she has it pretty well....
I was in this position, and it kept going down hill. She ended up having affairs and I filed for divorce. I wasn't going to let an active alcoholic have full custody of the kids so we dug in. The addiction, guilt, hatred, and pure addiction twisted spite took her down.
I did what I could. I held on because I made a promise before God and her... But it does take two. My attorney advised me to file first as it looks better in court. Then the fact that men in general have an uphill battle in the courts... Some how we men have a crappy reputation of being abusing etc.. Not the case here but I can tell you the smear campaign just floored me.. So expect the unexpected and divorce just sucks...
AG

LaTeeDa

While women here may not understand the nuances of being in the situation from the other side of the gender coin, we most certainly understand what it's like to be in a marriage with an alcoholic. So much so, than I can predict with near certainty that the next thing you will hear from her (as soon as she realizes you are serious) is how sorry she is, and how if you just give her one more chance she will change......

L

Itchy

Well she hasn't seen a lawyer yet. She is gone right now looking at a house for rent. That is crazy but we shall see. I do wish there was a way to get her to seek help but I guess that it really is over. The only things I will do are take over my own laundry/cooking/housekeeping. I don't think she really realizes that for me it will be permanent. I am not doing a roller coaster of back and forth. If she does not contact a lawyer by tomorrow I will and get the ball rolling. Nothing about this feels good now. But then again nothing felt good about the constant tension she generated claiming to be a victim and being put down all the time when she was in fact doing it all. The only put downs were when she decided that her resentments were all real and she was drinking. Then a compliment would be turned into a sneering come back and pretend mind reading of motives that I never have or had. That is the sad part. Her mind must work that way now since she is always thinking I think that way without asking me. She doesn't want to know, and resents that her games are no longer working.

She will have a lot of difficulty living with her parents as then they will see her night passing out on the couch, and anger issues. I am really depressed, and at the same time trying to resign myself to a terrible life of peace, and no more living with contempt. Fairy tales don't happen, just life, for me, that is enough. I don't have anything to prove or harm.

It would be nice if she sought help. But she won't.

It is a damned position to be in. Wanting it to work with all the normal disagreements. But because I refuse to commit us at ages 60 and 58 to a mortgage she is miserable with 5 acres and a very nice little manufactured home in like new shape.

You know, I guess that really says where my status is.

changeschoices

Maybe a separation is what you both need right now. You don't know what will happen in the future, but you can get some space and clarity.

lillamy

I may have ruined my keyboard spitting coffee on it. I miss you posting more often, Cyrano.