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Old 10-22-2010, 09:21 PM
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thank you , so much.
i am going to do those very things. and i feel a bit better knowing that i am not the worst case of enabler ever.
igotta get in bed now, and will sleep better, with a plan. i work early tomorrow. i try not to dread coming home each day. cant wait to not dread my days.

hugs to you and all. thank you, for all the help and understanding. it makes a difference.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizzaayy View Post
you are strong, not weak. you're a mother, who has been through hell and back. you love with a huge heart, and though many times it has been broken, you can still love just as much.
right now, you seem full of self doubt and low esteem. maybe (though i know that right now it might be tough) you could think of some things to build you up, and give you courage and confidence. life is beautiful, still, even while there are bad things going on.
aw Lizzaay....
you are too sweet. i do have lots of doubt, and low self esteem. i am trying to be happy too. i have a sweet one year old grandson, and he is doing such neat things. two other grands, who think i am great, are the light of my life, too.

i am so blessed. i feel guilty about that , too, i think.
yes, life is so beautiful, no matter what .

you take care- you are gonna be a wonderful mother.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
The police are usually fine with supervising "property removal". Around here it's not unusual at all. Cop friends are great to have.
Lexie,
my son in law is a cop. he is such a good heart,and has been so eager for me to be happy and at peace. he probably knows somebody who can help me out.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:31 PM
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:39 PM
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I really do not know what to say. I am just reading your posts and waiting for you to reach your bottom. I am hopeful that someday you will understand that he needs to become his own man, to forge his own way and accept responsibility for his own behavior.

You keep saying that he is not mentally capable to live on his own...where did that thought process come from? Has he ever been evaluated by a professional?
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dollydo View Post
I really do not know what to say. I am just reading your posts and waiting for you to reach your bottom. I am hopeful that someday you will understand that he needs to become his own man, to forge his own way and accept responsibility for his own behavior.

You keep saying that he is not mentally capable to live on his own...where did that thought process come from? Has he ever been evaluated by a professional?
Dollydo,

I am getting it. because i am learning about alcoholism-

he was evaluated by two psychiatrists. one talked with us for 15 minutes, checked off things on her paper as she asked questions, and said bipolar 2 was her diagnosis. we did not feel that was accurate. my son was answering questions in a way that he thought would get him pills. she told him that all she would recommend was the heavy mood controlling medications. i was present for that one.


The other psyc.done a few weeks later, talked with him for an hour and a half,and she determined him to have situational depression, and that getting a job would help him. i am sure that he was very careful not to look like a drinker- he was still seeking drugs for his "anxiety"- he told me this. he would not let me go in while the 2nd evaluation was going on. he did not me to jeopardize his chances, for he knew how i felt about getting the kind of pills he wanted-zanax. I did see the papers that came in the mail for him, from second psyc.- yep i opened them, to see what she said. no determination of mental disorder.

The reason i felt he has mental issues? well, since I read the "three act play", i am not so sure of my opinion. The crazy talk of the alcoholic- always claiming to be independent (he has never), saying that it is me, that i need psyc. help. so many of the things that the alc. does and says in that "play" are what he says that make me wonder about his sanity.

I sent the link to his dad, to my daughter too, to show them. the things that he has been saying, that are so outrageous and make us think he may be mentally ill may be simply the typical alcoholic behavior defense mechanism. it gives me hope, that with the right situation, he may recover .

I really am getting it, Dollydo. It is just so hard. But, i want peace, and i want him to have the best chance possible to recover. i am afraid of the long road that it may take him on, but to stay here is surely not helping.

i am tearing down this protective wall, and i see it as the trap that it is.
I certainly do see that he needs to be his own man, no matter where that takes him. I am not the only thing keeping him alive, and it hurts him to stay here. i understand that.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Me too. Survival. I had to choose me. I remember dealing with alcoholic, addicted, abusive XBF, desperate, scared, unable to let go. Obsessed even. And I remember feeling like I was in the water, trying desperately to swim, but he had me by the ankle and in HIS desperation would pull me under with him in his attempts to keep from drowning. I'd go to therapy and to Al-Anon and take antidepressants and these things made me feel like my head was above water. But as soon as I would gain any strength like this, he'd do something else to pull me back under. It was a very desperate time in my life and took me nearly two full years to break free. That was when I truly learned that sick people will MAKE you sick.
Yes, exactly. The only two options were that we both drown or that he drowns by himself. Only I could save me and only he could save him.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:22 AM
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I was glad to read your response, the tone suggests that you are heading in the right direction. To me, this good.

My exabf went to several physc, he never told them the truth, he lied through his teeth. One said he was depressed, the other said that he was anti social. They gave him some drugs and off he went.

He has been an alcoholic and drug addict for 30 years. Yes I believe that he has mental issues, who wouldn't after doing coke and drinking himself into a stupor most every night.
He fits the definition of insanity, one who keeps doing the same thing over and over again and expects different results. Did he start doing drugs because he wasn't right in the upstairs or, did he become mentally unbalanced because of the alcohol and drugs.

To me, it doesn't matter, it is what it is. He is now on the street, and managing. When pushed "A's" are quite reseliant. We codies worry more about the "What If's" than they do, they just do whatever they have to do to get what they want.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:25 AM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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Only I could save me and only he could save him.
This sounds so simple yet IMO it goes so deep.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:58 AM
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It isn't that unusual for alcoholics to be suffering from depression and anxiety--but as long as they are drinking it's virtually impossible to determine what is due to the alcoholism and what is due to a chemical imbalance that would manifest without the alcohol. You drink that much and your brain is ALL screwed up.

I think most mental health providers who are really knowledgable about addiction wouldn't attempt to prescribe drugs for depression or anxiety for someone who is still using. Again, though, this is a 38 year old man--you can't control who he sees for mental health treatment, either.

He isn't so helpless and non-functional (as a schizophrenic might be) that he is literally incapable of finding shelter, food, and help for himself. It's a matter of motivation--if you aren't providing those things, his only option is to do it for himself. And he may have to go through some unpleasantness in his life before he realizes nobody else is going to "rescue" him.

You're getting stronger, Chicory. I can see it.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:55 PM
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i'm so sorry, chicory, this sounds so painful. i don't know what to say, because i can hear that you do have the answers inside of yourself. but i do want you to know that i'm rooting for you, and for your son as well.

if you are set on following through with allowing him to stay until he secures the job, can you at least leave in the evenings? hang out at a friend's house, a coffee shop, go to a movie or library....to not be around it seems a little more comfort.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:56 PM
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Please chicory you are just in the way.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:35 PM
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I too, thought my daughter may be mentally ill..took her to two seperate phsychiatrists. Too bad she was using and their diagnosis don't mean anything! The crazy behavior is totaly in line with addict behavior.
The thing you CAN do for your son is to show him what a healthy functioning person looks like. That would include not tolerating abusive behavior and active addiction, holding boundaries, and following through on whay you say you will do. And all those things are in your best interest too.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:49 PM
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Wow and Keep,

I used to fear him being out there, with no home to go to.
now , i fear him being here, knowing he will drink his self to death.

I have been so upset today, thinking of how much trouble his dad has caused by sending him this 100$. he was to start his new job monday. i am sure that he will have one big nasty hangover, which may last a while, if two bottles of cheap vodka (the kind you get at the corner grocery) have anything to say about it.

I was angry because my daughter said that I should not try to interfere with his dad sending the money- that i was trying to control him. actually, i was trying to save myself the grief.

but now, i guess it was at least enlightening, to know that he has abolutely no control over his drinking. if he did, i think he would try to make an appearance, and act like he is in control. i have not seen him the total of 15 minutes since he got that money and booze.

it is a pisser that i cannot even be indignant about this behavior. he is sick, really sick , and i fear for him. finally, i am getting it.

my sister is of the opinnion that i should let him go to work, get a few paychecks, and move him out. she said she will help. then, if he blows it, which he will, he has only his self to blame and he will not be here. he will have to deal with the consequences.

i just know that he is gonna blow it, but i would like for him to have a job. it was so hard to find this one.
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:30 PM
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chicory..a job is not gonna fix this.There is no cure. There is only recovery. No job, friends, girlfriend, college degree, nothing is going to fix this except him working a recovery program. I have to agree with your daughter.If his dad sends him money..that is between them. Now, drinking in your house..that is your problem.You can't manipulate, cajole, or control him out of it. You can choose not to be an active participant by giving him a place to live, allowing him to drink in your home, etc. THAT is what you have control over.As for the saving money..wasn't this money he spent on booze for fines? If history is any indicator, there will be no saving money to move out. That is a delaying tactic, I fear. When x y and z happen, then I can have him leave.xy and z are never gonna happen cuz he's an active alcoholic.You want him to have a place to go..most likely he will not. Let go of the fantasy .. it isn't working . The actual reality may be more than you could even dream possible, but you won't know till you LET HIM GO.
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:46 PM
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Actually to me your daughter is right, and if he was not living with you you would not be paying the price...sounds pretty basic doesn't it? You are creating your own misery.

The job issue has nothing to do with it, his getting a job will not resolve anything, the chances of him even showing up and keeping it, are slim and none.

Yes, he is sick, he is an addict, they are all sick. He is one of millions. And you are an enabler, one of millions. The truth is, you are just as sick as he is. I was one too, recovery from this codependant illness was a long hard road, yet it was one that allowed me to find the peace and happiness I so desired and deserved.

He is a 38 year old man who is being treated like a child. He is street smart, all A's are.
By nature they are con artists and manipulators.
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:12 PM
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"they are con artists and manipulators"
I agree. I'd like to add that they are lazy too, IMO. They will sit back and let you do EVERYTHING. I think that is one of the worst things about living with these people. They will sit back while you work your fingers to the bone, have no rest, no enjoyment out of life, and they have no qualms about even being nasty to you and making life harder on you than it already is. They are often freeloaders who do not care about the person they are using. They are like parasites. This stuff really frustrates me.
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:59 PM
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Chicory I'm so sorry that your going through this. It seems to me that your son doesn't care about your feelings. He knows how much his drinking upsets you, and yet he continues to do this under your roof in your home. He has no respect for you. As much as you love your son, and want the best for him, your the one who has to make the change. It's obvious that he's not going to. I feel for you in a major way. If you should get the strength to put him out, you will see that he isn't going to die, and he might even learn to take action and make a life for himself. Or, if he cannot do that for himself, he might realize how good he had it while he was in your home. He needs to learn respect for you and your home. He totally takes you for granted. It's up to you to make a change. This is upsetting you over and over, and it's not going to end until YOU put an end to it. It's called tough love for a reason. The reason is that it's tough to stop helping our addict children. You need to realize that your NOT helping your son by keeping him there with you. Your a prisoner in your own home. I keep praying that you will finally do whatever it takes to get your son out. I know it's not easy. But your not going to have any peace until you do. I'm sorry that your so sad and troubled by this. I am praying that this will be over for you, and that you and your son will have a happy ending to this sad story. :ghug3
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
chicory..a job is not gonna fix this.There is no cure. There is only recovery. No job, friends, girlfriend, college degree, nothing is going to fix this except him working a recovery program. I have to agree with your daughter.If his dad sends him money..that is between them. Now, drinking in your house..that is your problem.You can't manipulate, cajole, or control him out of it. You can choose not to be an active participant by giving him a place to live, allowing him to drink in your home, etc. THAT is what you have control over.As for the saving money..wasn't this money he spent on booze for fines? If history is any indicator, there will be no saving money to move out. That is a delaying tactic, I fear. When x y and z happen, then I can have him leave.xy and z are never gonna happen cuz he's an active alcoholic.You want him to have a place to go..most likely he will not. Let go of the fantasy .. it isn't working . The actual reality may be more than you could even dream possible, but you won't know till you LET HIM GO.
i know a job is not going to fix him.but he wants this job. he did have one in construction that he held for a while. whether he gets recovery or not, has nothing to do with that. my sister wants to find him a cheap place, and get him out of here. if he keeps it, good, if he does not, well, that is his problem. he has been want ing a job badly , especially one that is not minimum wage.

once he is out, he is not gonna come back. he will hit bottom sooner or later.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
"they are con artists and manipulators"
I agree. I'd like to add that they are lazy too, IMO. They will sit back and let you do EVERYTHING. I think that is one of the worst things about living with these people. They will sit back while you work your fingers to the bone, have no rest, no enjoyment out of life, and they have no qualms about even being nasty to you and making life harder on you than it already is. They are often freeloaders who do not care about the person they are using. They are like parasites. This stuff really frustrates me.
you are so right,l2l.
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