LaTeeDa

I know it's hard to see when you are in the middle of it, but he has no reason to change. You said "his mom would do anything for him." It sounds like you would, too. Including telling him what to do, what not to do, and distracting him so he doesn't want to drink. With my husband, he had much the same. His parents always helped him whenever he asked, and I always did things for him that he could have and should have done for himself. He had absolutely no reason whatsoever to change his behavior. Only when I put his responsibilities squarely on his shoulders did he start to change.

This is what Barbara was trying to say, I believe. I told my husband if he wanted to drink, that was his choice. It was no longer my job to try and stop him. My job was to try and have the best life I possibly could for me and my children. So, if his choice was to drink, my choice was to live without him. That was not a threat, it was a decision I made for myself, for my life.

Your BF sounds a lot like my brother. In trouble with the law, skating through life, doing only what he HAS TO to get by. My mother coddles him and comes to his rescue whenever he asks. Yet, he complains all the time about how unfair life is, and how everyone is just out to make him miserable, etc. The victim mentality is quite common in alcoholics and codependents alike.

I think Anvilhead gave you the most practical piece of advice when she said slow down. What is the hurry. Would it do any harm to step back a few paces and evaluate where this is going?

L

Barbara52

So he's going to use a substance, some substance, in order to cope with life, its just a matter of which substance he can legally get away with? Lovely.

No using a breathalizer wouldn't do much goof other than put you in the role of jailer as I see it.

FormerDoormat

Here's what I didn't get when I first arrived on this forum:

I needed the wake up call!

aprylfool

So perhaps sitting down with sober him tonight would be helpful. To tell him what my boundaries are and that he's an adult and his choices are his own. If he chooses to behave in certain ways then he can then understand that he's crossed a boundary I have in place to protect me and in doing so has chosen a life without me in it.

Is that reasonable?

Barbara52

Yeah, you can if you want to. We can all make changes. Sometimes its very hard indeed but we can change. I've learned so much since I left my xAh about myself, why I made the choices I did, where my behaviors and thinking was harming me, and so much more. And it was well worth all the effort and pain involved. My life now is so much better it's wonderful!.

I wish I had done this hard work years ago, it would have saved me a lot of pain and bad choices. But on the on the other hand, I am grateful that my choice to marry and then divorce an alcoholic led me to my own personal growth.

aprylfool

I get the feeling one day I'll come back and look at this thread and wonder what was wrong with me. But also be thankful for so many kind people out there who took so much time to offer their advice and experiences. You're really helping me out a lot, all of you. I've been feeling alone in all of this and never thought until today to find a forum to talk to people on. It's amazing what I've learned so far.

GiveLove

My brother and two sisters (all substance abusers) have all spent time in jail. It didn't cure them. Brother has lost his career, his driver's license, his car, his home. Sisters lost marriages, licenses, jobs, all their money, and eventually their lives. This isn't because someone else didn't say or do the "right thing." This is because addiction is powerful, and many people don't come out the other side alive.

You are trying to fight an enemy that is many times bigger than you are. You're wrestling with its toe, not looking up to see the rest of the monster.

You can only take care of yourself, apryl. You can't save him -- he has to save himself. Here are two conversations I've had in my life; maybe they'll help you see the difference between ultimatum and self-protection:

1) If you don't quit drinking, so help me, I'm going to leave you.
2) I love you like crazy, but I no longer want to live my life with a man who is constantly under the influence, and who is being controlled by alcohol. It's not what I want my life to be like. I'm willing to keep working on our relationship if you start a program of recovery within the next two weeks that includes X, Y, and Z. If you won't do that, for my own happiness I need to leave.

And the feeling was totally different....I knew I would leave if he didn't respond to 2). I knew I WOULDN'T leave even if he told me to take a hike on 1).

You can only save yourself. Hugs and strength to you that you're able to do so....

minnelson6200

Wow, huge. I've been wondering how to say just that without it sounding like an ultimatum, how to say it with love and respect. Sounds like you worked that out beautifully.

aprylfool

Ya know. It's funny. I threaten to leave all the time, but I always wait for him to ask me to stay. Because I never intend to leave. I even told him today "Just tell me to leave" and he wouldn't. The whole time I kept thinking in my mind, if he tells me to leave I won't.

I'm going to go with #2 tonight and see what happens. At least that way I'm doing what it appears I haven't been doing, which is protect myself. I'm not sure why I'm so willing to inconvenience myself at another's expense. Masochistic perhaps?

GiveLove

I think you'll find that when you find the answer to this question inside yourself, you will open up whole new possibilities for joy in your life. We all have reasons why we stay, most of them are bundled under the broad category of "but I love him/her". Just like you, it took me a long time to figure out why I was so willing to suffer -- what I was getting out of it. And when I finally got it, it was like that shift in The Wizard of Oz where the world goes from black and white to color. Whoa.

aprylfool

I really wish I knew why I'm more concerned for others and not myself. I've always been that way. Always giving, never asking for much in return. It makes me happy to see others happy. I guess I just take it to an unhealthy level for myself.

I can't wait for the black and white ---> color moment. Must be quite a feeling.

LaTeeDa

Counseling helped me find those answers.

L

shadowwood

I think women are programmed to be caretakers, and thats fine, but we often feel that we have to sacrifice ourselves in the process. Making others happy is great, but don't we deserve some happiness too? After all, life is not a dress rehearsal.

Earlier this week I had a situation (not alcohol related) where I was "settling" for second best and not doing what I really wanted to do. I was miserable and grumpy and couldn't figure out why. When I realized what I was doing TO MYSELF, I made arrangements to get things headed in the direction that ~I~ wanted them to go. And WOW- did it ever feel good!

You've gotten alot of good advice here. PLEASE do yourself a favor and think this through. You deserve so much better.

prodigal

I'm not going to debate this issue with you. You are an adult. You have a right to make every attempt to save your Abf, marry him, have children with him, and try alternatives to get him sober. He has a right to do as he wishes too.

I will just share with you my own experience. I have been married to TWO alcoholics. I didn't figure it out the first time, so I went back to the poison well to drink some more. Both men were individuals and, on the surface, total opposites. My first AH never completed college. He was a great salesman. He also had a problem maintaining steady employment; the boss was a jerk, some woman in the office was a b**ch, some other salesman was "stealing" his sales.

Fast-forward to husband #2: He was a meritoriously decorated Army Lt. Col., he has a grad degree from Hopkins, he held a steady job (Army, then civilian position with the Army Corps of Engineers) ever since he got out of college.

Both men blamed their depression, relationship failures, family issues, their issues, MY ISSUES, on every cotton pickin' thing but themselves. They never, ever once took responsibility for their crummy behavior, their abusive behavior, their erratic behavior, or their downright INSANE behavior.

The only constant in these relationships was me. I tried to make them see the light. I dragged them into AA, out of AA, into marriage counseling, out of marriage counseling, into church, out of church, blah, blah, blah.

I had insomnia. I had arthritis. I had fibroids. I had arthritic knees. I had blocked sinuses and terrible sinus infections. I had inflammatory bowel disease.

They continued to drink and zone out beyond Pluto. I became an emotional wreck, a physical wreck, and a spiritual wreck.

I was enmeshed. I was enabling. And I was rabidly codependent. And I would argue to the death all the nice things these men did for me - between the emotional outbursts, the hitting, the cursing, the mood swings. I saw the "great guy" and the "hurt little boy" in both of them.

It didn't make them stop drinking. It made me NUTS. I told everyone their problems who would listen. I was a victim. I was a martyr. I was sick.

Then I got a good counselor, found SR, attended Al-Anon, and started detaching.

Today, I am still married to AH #2. However, I am one course short of completing an online bachelor's degree. I have a job. I have my own circle of friends. I pay my own bills. I pursue my own interests. And I live on MY SIDE of the house.

No, it's not a perfect situation, but it's the one I can afford for the moment. And I am working at extricating myself from this situation.

It does not get better; it only gets worse. Both of my AH's were on their best behavior the first year to 18 months of our relationship. You are already seeing the emotional roller coaster after just two months. Your bf has some pretty heavy-duty legal problems already. He is lying.

As I said at the beginning of my post, you have a every right to stay and stick it out. I'm just giving you a bit of my own personal experience, having lived with two A's for many, many years.

I'm letting you know how, in the end, it nearly destroyed me. Lots of good advice here from people who survived for years living with an A. But its up to you what you choose to do.

benjiboy

When he treats me badly, it's the disease - the alcohol. Not him.

Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]

Yes you are wrong. Let's be very clear about this, it is HIM who is treating you badly.
Also be very carefull about joining the 'it's a disease' faction. Not everyone goes along with that. It's an addiction, like heroine or any other drug addiction. This use of the term 'disease' makes it look like the 'victim' had no choice...just 'caught it'!
The chances of YOU saving your lover is almost nil...in fact by trying to do just that you might slow down that very process that you are trying to encourage.
This ain't Hollywood. Don't move in with him...in fact don't move in with anyone after just 2 months for Gawds sake! Stay togrther if you must but at a distance and see he gets proper help...which you can't provide.
I think you really ought to consider why want to be with 'the underdog'.
Please don't think for one minute that I think your friend should be abandoned...I think he should be helped...not hindered.
Good luck.
In this case use more head than heart.

respektingme

That's part of what makes me so crazy. My AH can never just live. He is always "on". If he's home, he's constantly thinking of the "right thing to do" or what I should be doing. He takes constant inventory. If I go get an ice cream out of the freezer, he'll go get the wrapper out of the trash and look at the caloric content and then raise his eyebrows.... but "not say anything". He has zero, and I mean zero idea on how to just appreciate the smell of the summer. He doesn't even notice anything. I accidentally put a pretty big ding in my right wheel well almost a week ago. I didn't say anything, since I didn't want to risk hearing his overly-dramatic response. He just asked me 2 nights ago if I was in an accident. He has to walk within a foot of that part of my car every single morning. He can't remember my birthday or his kid's birthday. He even forgot our daughter's middle name.

He lives in a bubble, of constantly judging, weighing, analyzing everything. So much so, that he misses out on so much. He knows his job, that's it. He knows very little about current events, politics, etc. He's very much like Glenn Beck.

So, every single thing he does, or every single thing I do, gets put into a little stack of good things for which he can reward himself with vodka for, or bad things which served as triggers to drink his vodka. Everything.... and I mean E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G revolves around the vodka.

And if he has no reasons, he'll find them. A reason could be as simple as his white undershirt has too many wrinkles.... which must mean I left it in the dryer too long.... which meant that I failed at doing laundry the way HE would have done the laundry..... which means I'm a no-good, lazy wife who would drive any man to drink.

The past 15 years have been full of his manipulation. And he ran me ragged for several of those years before I learned about alcoholism. I thought as long as he wasn't literally drunk, he was okay. Little did I know then, that alcohol effects the brain all the time when someone is active. Now I know. Now I disengage. T-shirt is wrinkled? He scowls and throws a fit? I leave the room, do my thing, and keep his remarks off of my day.

If I had only been dating him 2 months, and KNEW he was an alcoholic and that my life and the life of our 2 kids would revolve around his choice to pour vodka down his throat, I would run, not walk. I dated lots of guys before settling down with my AH. Breaking up with boyfriends wasn't too difficult for me, so I know I would have done it had I known.

It's a depressing and very stressful existence. And when you have kids, you'll share the situation with them.

And one other thing, it sucks for regular people to know I'm married to one. I hate to say it, but it was a lot more fun being married to a high-level executive before his drinking got so out of hand. Limos, 5-star restaurants, trips. New Year's Eve he got trashed and peed in our bed. That sort of thing really drains the fun out of a trusting, loving relationship.

theotherone

He can't remember my birthday or his kid's birthday. He even forgot our daughter's middle name.


Oh my God....Respektingme...I almost spit Diet Pepsi all over the keyboard...
ROTF...LMAO!!!!!!!!!

It's amazing what is important to them compared to that of a normal person.

:wtf2

aprylfool

So I went to his store he owns to talk to him. Turns out earlier, because I had said I was most likely not going to be home when he got there - he made plans to hang out with his friend Mike.

I'm starting to wonder why I missed work today, why I was stressed all day, why I threatened to leave again and he got to have a nice day at work and even made plans with his friend - despite what I was going through. I carry the brunt and the weight of his problems, it seems, so he doesn't have to. Because who cares that I wasn't going to be there when he got home, Mike is an equally acceptable replacement.

I asked "How can you say in all honesty that you want me in your life and then, when I say I won't be there when you get home, get over it quick enough to make plans with a friend?" - never did get an answer to that question.

I'm reaching the end of my rope...

TTOSBT

Apryl,

Boy have you received some wonderful advice here. I hope you read it.
I have nothing to say about your boyfriend. Sounds like a run of the mill drunk/addict to me.
You, on the other hand need some serious help girlfriend. I do not mean to be harsh at all. But seriously, do you think a normal, healthy person would do what you are doing? Please seek out some help for yourself.
Alanon is wonderful and free. I am sure there are other groups as well. Talk to a therapist that specializes in codependency and lack of self esteem.
Stop focusing on him (as you can see he is not as worried about this relationship as you are) and focus on YOU and your recovery. :ghug

Tally

Honey, if you're at the end of your rope after two months, imagine how you're gonna feel after two years...then 5 years..then 10...

The first few months of a relationship are supposed to be the honeymoon period, you're feeling like crap already after two months?

I came here about 3 years ago wondering what I could do to help my ABF, we'd been together for 2 years and I felt like I was going insane.
I threatened, I screamed, I cried, I manipulated...I drove myself almost MAD...he didn't..I did. When I came here I realised I wasn't helping him, I couldn't...I'm not that powerful, all I could do was take care of me.

If I knew then, after a couple of months how I would feel a few years down the line I woulda run like crazy..
Unless he's willing to get help he's gonna get worse...no doubt about it. And think about it, two months in, he's prolly on his best behaviour...

You don't have to leave him, but like the others said, what's the hurry? You don't have to move in with him so soon, you could sit back and see how it pans out, see if things improve, see if he gets help....there's no rush.

Just remember, you can't cure him or control him, he's not your problem to solve.

Nat x x x x