LaTeeDa

It is no longer helping when you are putting more effort into solving someone's problem than they are. He is lying to his counselor, he refuses to go to AA, he breaks his promises to you about drinking, yet you are trying so hard to help him that you have to leave work early because you are exhausted. Your situation appears to have gone beyond helping into the realm of enabling.

L

aprylfool

Yeah this rollercoaster is a doozie. It's as if I'm in a cage in the middle of a beautiful meadow. Butterflies are dancing around, willow trees are swaying with the breeze - and the door is open. I can walk out into that world. But I stay inside with him.

I don't feel like I make much sense these days.

Barbara52

It's enabling in the sense that it would be taking responsiblity for his actions away from him and stepping in to take responsibility. How do you know what goes on with the counselor anyway? Do you go to his sessions? Or do you go by what he tells you? Either way, it's his choice. Let him bear the consequences, good or bad, all on his own for his choices and actions.

respektingme

The way alcoholics behave often is so textbook. And no, the traits aren't visible within the first 2 months of a relationship. They use blame to justify their drinking, to offset their disappointment in themselves for not being able to stop and to get others on the defense rather than continuing to focus on their drinking. Unless they get SOBER, their blame game gets worse. Sober means, they realize their thinking stinks and they LOOK for changes in their own lives. Dry drunk means they have literally stopped drinking because someone or something has forced them to, but they resent it. Behavior doesn't change.

It's nasty. Please reconsider. You're so new to this relationship. Please realize what you are getting into.

i4getsm

I agree with everything that has been said by others so far. I remember well the days of having someone argue, act rude, disappear, be visibly drunk...and think that was okay/normal. It's not normal. It is NOT okay. If you're prepared to stay and get on this rollercoaster with him, reading up on codependency and setting boundaries/consequences would be a good start. As was mentioned above, there's a difference between helping and enabling.

Another question to ask yourself: If you're helping him, how is that going? What are you doing exactly? If he wants to go to a bar, he's going to go, regardless of what you say. Even if he stays home, it sounds like he resents you telling him what to do and eventually drinks anyway. All you can do is set consequences which protect you. Telling him what to do is not YOUR job. He has to want help for HIMSELF or any attempts at stopping will probably fail.

aprylfool

He tells me that he usually talks about us and that he feels lucky to have someone like me in his life. Tells her that he doesn't feel like he deserves me and whatnot. Never tells her about drinking. Told her we wanted to live together. Talks about his family etc.

That's what he says, so I don't know if that's true or not.

Bernadette

It's as if I'm in a cage in the middle of a beautiful meadow. Butterflies are dancing around, willow trees are swaying with the breeze - and the door is open. I can walk out into that world. But I stay inside with him.

This is a great analogy/image.
Heartbreaking too.
But- read it over and it also has the key to change within it: "But I stay inside with him."

You have a choice! You have power! The past is gone. You are free in this moment. You can learn how to walk right out of that cage. I don't mean leave him- that's another decision - but you can free yourself from the roller coaster ride. You can get some tools in your toolbox so that you won't let this relationship get you so messed-up you have to leave work and do damage to yourself.

We all come to these things when we are confused and in pain. You can be honest with yourself without beating yourself up!

"Peacemakers go to the same place as soldiers/
If you want to find peace then you gotta find the pain."
Dar Williams "it's a War in There"

Thank You for starting this thread Aprylfool- it's a really helpful one!
Peace,
B.

aprylfool

Yeah he's definitely dry drunk. Yesterday was a really bad day for him and I was at my apartment getting stuff and he kept making little hints that I should stay home or come home later... all because he didn't want me there. I got home right when he did and he wasn't too happy to see me, which hurt my feelings. The whole night he was irritable and resentful. A few times he'd come cuddle with me or talk to me, but for the most part he was upset that he wasn't drinking. And it isn't just me that stops him from drinking, he stops himself. He didn't go drink last night and I know he could have if he really really wanted to. It's that I have the consequence that I'll leave him if he drinks that tends to stop him. Though he says it's partly that and partly that he really doesn't want to drink.

aprylfool

I'm helping him, I think at least, by giving him alternatives to drinking. Whenever he gets the urge we find stuff to do - long walks, bike rides, nice dinner out or visiting with friends/family. I thought it'd be nice if he found a different outlet when he got the urge to drink. He says he drinks because he gets sad for no reason and just wants to feel better. I figure if he has a healthy way of coping with those feelings then maybe he'd eventually one day realize that alcohol isn't what he needs and that other things can make him feel better. We even rearranged the hosue, cleaned, he got rid of stuff he didn't want or represented bad memories or thoughts of drinking. He walks in here everyday now really happy and more peaceful because his home environment isn't as toxic or enabling as it had been. I guess I'm just doing whatever I can.

What about consequences? Is it fair for me to threaten to leave to keep him from drinking? Because I feel like all that's doing is breeding resentment. If it works for the next 20 years then all he's ever going to do is hate me for making him choose, when all along he should have been the one to decide that he needed to stop for him - not for fear of losing me.

Barbara52

You're right. Its not your place to hand out consequences or to otherwise try ond control his behaviors. Its perfectly alright to set boundaries for what is acceptable to you in your life. Its counterproductive to hand out consequences like he is a child.

Saying I will lieave you if you do X is an attempt at control and hading out consequences. Saying I cannot be without if you choose to drink and will do X, is setting a boundary for what you can accept and says what you will do if that boundary is crossed but does not tell him what he can or cannot do. He would continue to free to drink if he cose to do so but would do it without you. Does that make sense?

LaTeeDa

Threatening to leave just to stop him drinking is a bad idea on many levels. First, it's unlikely to work. Second, as you said, if it does work, he will resent you for it. Third, and most important, you are making decisions about YOUR life and YOUR future based on what HE does or does not do.

Make your decisions on what is best for YOU. Not what you think is best for him. As I said above, putting someone else first, above yourself is not healthy. You may feel like it is a noble, caring, compassionate thing to do, but it is self-destructive and will lead you down a path of pain and suffering. I know. It took me till the age of 45 to learn that lesson. I spent 20 years with an alcoholic and had two children with him. We all suffered so much, and my biggest regret is that it took me sooooooo looooooooonnnnnnng to change.

L

aprylfool

Okay, I understand that. But then I have a question. What do I do if he wants to go drink? How am I supposed to react? Just be like "whatever, go"? I mean, if he has no consequences, no one to be held accountable to - then this will never stop.

aprylfool

I'm not sure I get the difference, it seems like there isn't one. Controlling him by saying I'll leave if he drinks is the same as saying I can't be with you if you drink and if you drink then I'll do X. No?

LaTeeDa

Oh, there will be consequences. In fact, it sounds like he's had some already or he wouldn't be on probation, would he?

Yes, I would say something along the lines of "you are an adult, it's your choice." And you're right, it may never stop. Do you think telling him not to will make it stop? You did say you know you cannot save him, right? Do you also know you can't control him?

L

Bernadette

Now you're getting to the crux!

This will never stop. Did he stop before he met you? Did a DUI, jail, any other serious consequence get him to stop?

Do you think your love is the thing that will get him to stop? Do YOU posess the "magic consequence" that will suddenly stop an addiction as powerful as alcoholism???

If that were true none of us would be here!!

Alcoholism is cunning, baffling and relentless. It will never stop until he and only he, decides he has had enough. Whether you stay or go does not matter to the alcoholic. And you can't take that personally. It's just the way alcoholics are!

Peace,
B.

aprylfool

Yeah I know. I know I can't do anything to help him. I guess I need to master the art of being supportive without enabling.

The thing is, I don't think he's ever hit rock bottom or hit it hard enough to know what it's like to completely lose it all. He got in trouble 2 years ago and got simple probation. Then a year into it he crashed his car, got a DUI and got fines and counseling for 2 years. Now he's 2 years into all this and I think last year he got in trouble for taking xanax without a prescritption on his urine test. So now he's always tested for drugs and whatnot. They never breathalize him and no one ever asks about drinking. He's lied to them enough to make them think he doesn't drink anymore. He had 30 days of rehab last year but admitted he didn't take it seriously.

He's never had things get SO bad that he felt the consequences. And even though he has to go to see his probation officer and a counselor, they know nothing. He's just been barely gliding through all these circumstances. Has a nice remodeled apartment, barely any bills, his mom would do anything for him - he really doesn't have any problems except the law stuff. Yet he gets "sad" and drinks.

I wish sometimes, he'd have hit rock bottom. That he'd have spent time in jail - anything to make him see that this is no way to spend your life: drunk all night, sleeping all day only to wake up hungover and regretting you did it.

His mom and I both say it a lot, he's had it too easy and he needs a wake-up call.

aprylfool

Well, his thing is - he started drinking when he got on probation because he no longer could smoke pot. He had nothing else to turn to so he smoked cigarettes, took xanax and smoked weed. Now that they test him for those things he can't do them. He actually quit smoking cold turkey earlier this year, I've never seen him smoke or smelled it on him. And he hasn't done xanax for over a year. All that's left is alcohol. And there's nothing magical to make it stop. He even said I could get a breathalizer so that I could test him whenever I wanted. But I don't see that helping anything in a realistic sense.

minnelson6200

A question I am asking myself is this: "if he needs to hit rock bottom in order to see that he is wasting his life, will that happen if I'm still around cleaning up the mess?" What I mean is maybe me leaving is part of the bottom that has to happen in order for him to find his way. Not that I really have the answer yet, but I've always held Barbara's signature line in my head and heart when thinking about it.

I trust you are capable of handling your own life, and I will now stop interfering by trying to rescue you.

Barbara52

But the object of boundaries is not to control the other person. They are only to spell out for you what you will and will not accept in your life. He is free to do as he pleases regardless of your boundaries and your choices. Yes, a consequence of his choses to continue drinking could be losing you in his life but that is the direct result of his choices. Moving to protect yourself in whatever way you would choose to do so is not done to control him, only to protect yourself or improve your life. Does that help?

aprylfool

I think that's what I don't like thinking about too. I don't want to accept or acknowledge that part of him hitting the bottom involves me walking away. I can't just be his friend, I can't watch him move on to other relationships and I certainly can't stop wanting to be in his life.

I like LaTeeDa's quote:

The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it