Dating an alcoholic - HELP

Old 07-11-2008, 09:36 PM
  # 81 (permalink)  
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Hi Apryl Fool-
I am in your shoes...2 additional months ahead of you....but my ABF disappeared and I found out he is in rehab and not only doesn't want to see me, doesn't want me to know he's there and is talking crap about me...so fast forward a few months and see that even IF they get help...the personality traits of the "illness" permeate their personality.

They have spent so long manipulating, lying and deceiving themselves and others that it is a trait that is sooo hard to eliminate as it's "part of them" now...including the selfishness. I'm not a man hater....I LOVE this guy, but why and how? It's more like "Codependent love", as you will learn by being part of this forum and posting and reading.
Detaching is very hard, but it will save people like us from being dragged under the wheels of the addict-mobile as it spins in circles around us.
I posed a few questions in this forum relating to "why are codies like us labeled as needing help when all we want to do is give to others of our time, empathy and love". Many responses clarify that...it's not that we should stop loving, but those that we are loving are not loving US, they are taking advantage of us and we are losing ourselves in the process. It may not FEEL like you are losing anything, the warmth and heartache we feel is REAL, and we WANT to help them...even if it means WE sacrifice receiving validation and affection, all in the name of love! Believe me, I've tried to rationalize this for months. The addict does not love himself. He sees us as people that are ripe to take advantage of...they don't mean to do this to hurt us on purpose, but that's what their alcoholic/addict mind DOES. They don't think of how it hurts us...that's the point....and they may not want to think about it for YEARS. It's too hard and processing "real" relationship behavior is stressful to the mind that is focused on getting and staying high, or when recovering, trying to live a life without the alcohol/drugs that they've depended on as their foundation for so long.
I thought I could cure my guy. I nursed him through a previous detox on my own, and thought.... I"M THE ONE WHO IS GOING TO TURN HIS LIFE AROUND. ALL HAIL ME. SEE? HE LOVES ME. I TOLD ALL OF YOU. FOR ME, HE WILL STOP TAKING PILLS...FOR ME HE WILL STOP DRINKING. HE TOLD ME SO. HE CRIED WITH ME. HE TOLD ME HE'S NEVER FELT LIKE THIS WITH ANYONE BEFORE...I KNOW I'M DIFFERENT AND WE FOUND EACH OTHER JUST IN TIME. I WILL HELP HIM AND WE WILL START OUR LIVES ANEW TOGETHER...HE WILL GET CLEAN/SOBER AND THEN TELL EVERYONE ABOUT HOW HE FELL IN LOVE WITH ME AND I WAS ABLE TO BRING HIM OUT OF HIS DARK PLACE AND INTO A FUTURE OF PROMISE....
sound familiar?
This sh*t goes thru my head too. Every day. I have to kick myself in the butt when it comes to the forefront of my mind...and teach myself, bit by bit, why it's NOT reality, and why it will not happen like that.

Check out these great posts from other forum members, I quoted below. They helped me alot.
Hugs,
Rivka


But he has such potential" by Former Doormat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But he has such potential." "When he's not drinking he's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest man I know." These are phrases I hear often on SR and two I used for many years until I was able to chip away my layers of denial and see my situation for what it really was.

In his book, "The Gift of Fear," Gavin DeBecker addressed this issue in a way I thought might be useful to others on this forum, so I'll share it here:

One of the most common errors in selecting a boyfriend or spouse is basing the prediction on potential. This is actually predicting what certain elements might add up to in some different context: He isn't working now, but he could be really successful. He's going to be a great artist--of course he can't paint under present circumstances. He's a little edgy and aggressive these days, but that's just until he gets settled.

Listen to the words: isn't working; can't paint; is aggressive. What a person is doing now is the context for successful predictions, and marrying a man on the basis of potential, or for that matter hiring an employee solely on the basis of potential, is a sure way to interfere with intiution. That's because the focus on potential carries our imagination to how things might be or could be and away from how they are now.

Spousal abuse is comitted by people who are with remarkable frequency described by their victims as having been "the sweetest, the gentlest, the kindest, the most attentive," etc. Indeed, many were all of these things during the selection process and often still are--between violent incidents.

But even though these men are frequently kind and gentle in the beginning, there are always warning signs. Victims, however, may not always choose to detect them. I made these points on a recent television interview, and a young woman called in and said, "You're wrong, there's no way you can tell when a man will turn out to be violent. It just happens out of no where." She went on to describe how her ex-husband, an avid collector of weapons, became possessive immediately after her marriage, made her account for all of her time, didn't allow her to have a car, and frequently displayed jealously.

Could these things be warning signs?

In continuing her description of this awful man, she said, "His first wife died as a result of beatings he gave her."

Could that have been a warning sign? But people don't see the signs, maybe because our process of falling in love is in large measure the process of choosing not to see faults, and that requires some denial. This denial is doubtless necessary in a culture that glorifies the kind of romance that leads young couples to rush to get married in spite of all the reasons they shouldn't, and fifty-year-old men to follow what is euphemistically called their hearts into relationships with their young secretaries and out of relationships with their middle-aged wives. This is, frankly, the kind of romance that leads to more failed relationships than successful ones.

The issue of selection and choice brings to mind the important work of psychologist Nathaniel Branden, author of "Honoring the Self." He tells of the woman who says: "I have the worst luck with men. Over and over again, I find myself in these relationships with men who are abusive. I just have the worst luck." Luck has very little to do with it, because the glaringly common characteristic of each of this woman's relationships is her. My observations about selection are offered to enlighten victims, not to blame them, for I don't believe that violence is a fair penality for bad choices. But I do believe they are choices.


by Light Seeker

I think that any time spent thinking that anyone will ever "get" how mistreated I've been is simply a huge waste. No one should ever get a hallpass for being unkind, disrespectful, manipulative, selfish, etc. That includes addicts, recovering addicts, non addicts, etc. It is up to me (us) to determine what is acceptable behavior and what I will expose myself to. Acceptance does not mean accepting poor treatment - it means acceptance that there might be a situation that I can't change in any other way than to have boundaries with consequences in place. Maybe what I have to do is remove myself from the situation.

You can be an extremely kind, compassionate, loving person without being co-dependent. It's all about the motives behind anything. Many times co-dependents hide their true motives from themselves - the kindness, love, compassion, etc. are all given with the price tag of expectations of how we will be treated in return. As in - if I care for you and tend to you, then you will realize how much you need me and will give me the love that I am craving. Until we learn to love in a healthy way, we are drawn again and again and again to those that are unavailable and can't love us in return.

Many people that are co-dependents are also relationship addicts. I've read alot of Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly. If you ever find yourself in a one-way love affair it is certainly an area to look into.

I abhor the victim role that I have played for so long - I now see how I teed myself up for the lousy treatment that I have received throughout my life. I've made poor choices in my relationships - finding people that weren't available to love me. I am powerless over a lot of things - and one of the biggest is my desire to be loved (especially by a romantic partner). I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side". Oh well - I thank God every single day that there is a path to walk that leads to recovery from all of our addictions. All of this is why I stand firmly on the principle that we truly are as sick as any addict in our lives that we think needs help.

I think that the world will become a better place when we all learn to honor ourselves and settle for nothing less in return. Easier said than done - I'm well aware. However, if I am taken advantage of because of my kindness then I know that I have set myself up. The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.

I guess I saying that I don't think that the world is upside down - I think that my way of living was upside down.
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:34 AM
  # 82 (permalink)  
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This was an amazing read and eye opener! So much knowledge and experiences and sharing. And it all makes so much sence....
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:18 AM
  # 83 (permalink)  
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What did he do before you came along... let him go back to that. Your life had to be better then, also, go back to it. The only thing I gained from 2 1/2 yrs with a person trying to rebuild his life, (with a store) is it was a financial drain, but I did learn a very Memorable Lesson... & the more time (it's been over 3 yrs) that he is gone, it just gets Better. The color part, for me came as Black & Blue, then when it's healing, it gets better color, Of Serenity,Peace & Blessings

I take nothing for granted. I now have only good days or great days.
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:58 AM
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Hi, and welcome !

Sorry if I'm just repeating others, but advice from al-anon is that while you think you are helping him and being supportive.....you're actually codependant which is a form of controling someone.
I didn't see it as controling until I understood that each time you help them with any consequence of their drinking, you are taking some of the responsibility for their behavior AWAY from them.

The alcoholic, or really Any person who abuses alcohol on only an occasional basis, Must be forced to experience and deal with 100% of the consequences of their drinking, Alone.
They made the decision to drink and they must deal with the results Alone.
This also means you have to tell them if they get a DUI, that they cannot call you and you cannot help them with the financial part of that either.

The weight of the results of their drinking must fall on them only.

Helping is enabling.
You try to control them (even tho' you won't consciously think of it as trying to control) when you take away some of the consequences/responsibilities of their drinking.
And don't buy any alcohol specifically For them.

He will continue to LIE to you about the drinking....and then, knowing how easy it is to lie......he very likely will start lying about Other things.

Go and buy the paperback Codependant No More:
Barnes*&*Noble.com - Books: Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie, Paperback


And give serious thought to leaving him.
He will only stop drinking when he has reason to Alone.
He will not stop for you or anyone else.

Look around this site a lot and read the experiences of those here.
Things like lying thru their teeth about the drinking and thinking nothing of it is universal with anyone who habitually abuses alcohol, or is a full blown alcoholic.

How often do you want to be lied to ?....receive apologies for the lying and the drinking, only to experience being lied to again and again.

The disrespect of being lied to is one of the things I find most infuriating.
And it is a relationship KILLER....It IS how you fall out of love with someone because the disrespect Destroys it....little by little....a slow death.

Disrespect is extremely damaging......and the A will not be Able to react to you when you try to tell them how their drinking affects you.
That doesn't work.....it just tells the alcoholic that they have control over you if their own behavior dictates how you conduct your life.

You don't want that and they do Not deserve that power !

FYI: Ultimatums rarely work.
Altho' you can lay down your own laws re: the drinking, such as "If you get a PI or DUI, don't call me, I'm not helping you with that."
You must not help them pay for the financial consequences either !

Or, after you start feeling you can't "live like this anymore"....you can't say "If I catch you drinking here again, I'm moving out" (or he's moving out, which is harder to achieve) as any kind of idle threat...
You have to act on your words.
There is no room for empty threats !
You have to mean it and follow thru !

Please go online and look for an al-anon meeting near you and go check it out. Al-anon is for you alone to learn how to let go of reacting and helping them when they drink.....and direct that energy toward you.

I know that flies in the face of what being a couple means......supporting and helping each other.
But....this is different !
When you experience anything bad in your life as a result of someone's substance abuse......
You Draw The Line There.

Last edited by twistedruby; 07-13-2008 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:54 PM
  # 85 (permalink)  
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I came here looking for hope, my exA was doing more to sort out his rubbish than yours, 8 weeks rehab programme that he had entered voluntarily.

I've put up with the lies, he's messed with other women but he'd put his arms round me and I soooo wanted to believe that everything would be ok.

Sometimes it is but not very often, it's a tiny percentage of A's that see it through and get sober and to them congratulations to a job well done but this isn't the norm.

I'd known my exA for 16 years, thought the drunk thing was a passage of youth but it wasn't and got far worse. He was drinking far worse 4 weeks after rehab than I'd ever seen before but had all the "treatment" words to make it look ok on the surface. No one makes the ""runaway comments foa a bit of a giggle, it's just that we've been there.

Look after yourself and come back here for support as and when you need it
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