August252015

Ready for me to pop you about why you're hanging out with a girl with only a small connection to sobriety herself? Whether it's romantic or not, IMO, early friends and those we spend time with need to chosen very carefully.

Any other IRL people who are in recovery themselves? Best friends I could have, especially early on.

Briansy

Hmmm, I think you're being overly harsh there, August! She isn't in recovery because she doesn't need to be but she has her head screwed on. And, honestly her support is way better than from other people in recovery as she doesn't try to foist her formula on me but just listens and tries to keep me accountable and doing the things that keep me sober and avoiding the things that don't: isolating, being sedentary, eating badly. She doesn't drink around me and she drinks very little when she's not. A true normie!

I don't really know many or really any people in recovery bar my old sponsor but I don't think that matters. I absolutely need to stay vigilant, but I also know that, for me, it doesn't make me feel good feeling separate - I really don't feel I'm in any way "different" to others - I let my relationship with a highly addictive substance get out of control and now I am addressing it. I feel like I have made good progress and that I have learned from my experience last weekend. And learned that having a hard day, and getting through the other side makes me better equipped to deal with that the next time, and the next time until those times become less and less frequent.

My outlook is different to what it was last year and earlier this. And having had a glimpse of being truly relaxed and happy just doing stuff or especially socialising without alcohol, I know that I can make it stick. That feeling of deprivation isn't there the way it was but what did linger last time was that knowledge that I can still, in the moment, have an instant solution for just generally feeling flat or restless - that ability to block it out, to anaesthetise - but it's small comfort when faced with the fallout of lost momentum and a fuzzy head, general feeling of discouragement that I couldn't keep it going. The difference last Sunday was not actually coming on here or telling my friend I was feeling that way and instead just going ahead and doing it. I had gotten better at that - discussing the danger periods - hopefully I can keep that up.

August252015

Well, I don't think suggesting that anyone take a look at who we are spending time with in early sobriety is harsh, B.

It's really important to choose carefully, and she sounds solid and supportive - yet non-alcoholics simply don't get it. Not fully. And we can't count on someone else to keep us accountable, active, in line, so on....Bolstering your social and support roster w people who do get it has been a recipe for my sobriety success up to today, and I've not gone wrong when erring on the side of "this great person can be someone in the picture a bit further on and along with others now"....

You also didn't respond as to whether it's romantic or heading that way- that's something most of us find we need to be very careful about in early sobriety.

You know I'm rooting for you- I'm just listening for things you say that might be part of why you relapsed and what you could consider doing differently.

ScottFromWI

That's a dangerous statement in many ways. It's quite common once we quit drinking to feel that it was somehow "no big deal" and that we are really just "normal". Heck, maybe I'm not even really an alcoholic but just a "person that abused alcohol for a while". I did that more than once and not long after returned to drinking.

Basically all I'm saying is that you have struggled mightily with your drinking for a long time...and your sober time is in relation quite short. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

August252015

Totally agree with Scott.

Briansy

I know you are - and it's greatly appreciated! Not romantic. But way more communication than there would be with a normal friend - so I don't know. A bit weird. I tell a lie, actually, I do know one other guy from my home town who's in AA. I should meet up with him soon.

Briansy

I do hear you, Scott. I should maybe rephrase and say: I don't feel in any way defective. It would be ridiculous to say my situation was in remotely normal or not what it clearly is: very serious. I guess the point being, I have glimpsed at being able to interact with people in social situations and not have alcohol be the thing that is occupying all of my conscious thoughts. It has been a big step in not feeling that a life of abstinence would really equate to a life of misery. I guess I just find it helpful to frame things in those positive terms.

But I'll think about what you both have said.

ScottFromWI

I wasn't suggesting you are defective. But I do believe that it is necessary to accept that we are somehow different in our relationship with alcohol than others. I also believe that whatever that difference is, it can never be changed. That does not mean that we cannot live a full life nor that we have to isolate from the rest of the world - i go to lots of events now where alcohol is present and don't even think twice about it. But I also don't purposefully put myself in situations where drinking alcohol is the main focus. AKA I don't hang around at bars or go to drinking parties anymore. There is such a wide world out there beyond the small alcoholic circle I used to call my own to explore.

Dropsie

Briansy,

I did not change my habits much. I still go to the bars even, but not as much as I used to as I get bored. Don't know many people in recovery and its not relevant to my choice of friends.

The fact that I stopped drinking doesnt affect my friendships, where I go, or what I do, with the important exception that I dont drink and I go home earlier.

Everyone is dfferent and caution is warranted. If I have any doubts, AT ALL, my sobriety comes first. But for me, its within my old life.

Good luck - everyone is rooting for you.

Briansy

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Briansy

Sorry, was trying to embed a photo - won't let me delete or edit. Oh well!

SoberCAH

Briansy -

On July 18, you wrote:

"Being at home in Ireland and not drinking is not even an issue anymore as it's been so well established now that I don't drink that I just never would - I couldn't."

On July 29, you wrote:

"Well, I drank yesterday." and

"But the reality is that, for me, nothing external was going to solve my problems, it had to come from within."

You don't seem to relapse, because that implies you have stayed sober.

I certainly didn't want to be a member of AA, but I have given it more than 5 weeks, I have worked the steps with my sponsor and I have done service work, 12th step work, etc.

It became my life.

And I haven't had a drink or a drug since I joined it.

Your own thinking doesn't appear to achieving favorable results, because you always drink again.

If I were you, I wouldn't trust my own thinking.

I have been sober a pretty long time, and I don't even trust my own thinking on some matters.

So I pray for God's guidance and ask other people, whose opinions i value, for advice.

You sound like someone who hasn't decided to give up alcohol.

I wish that you would and that you would also choose and follow a plan of recovery.

You may have better results.

Briansy

I've decided alright, Sober. I wouldn't be on here posting every day if I hadn't. I tried AA for a lot more than 5 weeks. It's not for me. I am not following a "programme" designed by someone else but am trying to take as much information and wisdom from others (unless of course it's the AA doctrine which I don't buy into) as I can as well as calling on recent experience of being genuinely content in a range of situations without alcohol. Including this past weekend where I made sure to spend very little time in the house on my own and a lot out oi the fresh air, getting exercise and feeling good. As well as reading another book on the subject since my last slip. Like I said, I feel things have changed for me. It's probably best to stop convincing others who feel I'm in denial and follow my gut. Having said that, I do appreciate that you're simply offering tough love. But right now I am getting more out of remaining positive and continuing to get up on that horse and cracking on with my recent progress.

Dropsie

You might want to check out the web site hip sobriety, sounds like something you might like.

I did her school a year or so after I stopped and found it great, think it would be even better for those earlier in their sobriety.

Briansy

Hi Dropsie - cheers for the tip, I had stumbled across it but not really investigated further. I'll have a look and maybe check out the podcasts. I see the focus is on the holistic. I noticed lately how things were going in the right direction in terms of my thought processes and accumulating decent amount of time - (RELATIVELY speaking for me!) without any urges. But that I became vulnerable when certain conditions were present - i.e. when I isolated too much, particularly indoors for long periods - a huge danger zone for me. Or if I abused sugar (a new one for me lately) or generally had a horribly out of whack diet. Not exercising. Not putting an appropriate amount of effort into my day to day work (I have my own business etc). Not doing decent things like making sure I called my Dad in hospital every day (he's in a different country hence can't visit etc). Those things, which I suppose are the kind of holistic things they seem to be espousing on hip sobirety are the focus currently together with using the basic principles espoused in the Naked mind book and Allen Carr and Alcohol explained by William Porter - nothing revolutionary but playing the tape forward - doing it every time. Recognising the triggers and working to remove the association of certain events and alcohol. "Urge surfing". Understanding the physiology and psychology aspects of why this stuff is happening. All of those things combined.

Is that a "programme"? Surely not far off? And it doesn't appear to fly in the face of most sensible advice on here. Probably the one that is controversial is socialising - I feel that it's important for me to do it - I have found it helps. We're all different on that one though - and if I was a guy who did all of my drinking in bars or lunches or whatever instead of the reality which is on my own, then clearly that would not be wise. But for a single guy living alone that actually isolated because of alcohol, I think the opposite approach has to be the right one for me. That being said, I really have to force myself to not make up an excuse to cancel on invitations. Those excuses are habit born out of fear / social anxiety and would typically have precipitated a solo binge in my apartment. I want to avoid them for now. Especially as I've had a bit of a taste of enjoying social situations sober. Like I keep saying, that feels like a big step.

We're all just feeling our way through this. But I'm not happy to accept that I'm in "denial" about anything or not making genuine attempts to quit. I get the tough love stuff but could also use some encouragement too.

Grymt

Ok. I think you're doing great. And I think for a relative newbie to sobriety (? If not you, someone) that's a potentially risky place to be. You know the saying, aim for the best and prepare for the worst. Perhaps write a note to yourself now in this good clear headspace what to do if (when.?) the wheels fall off the wagon. When you fall in love and get dumped, your dog gets run over and the internet shuts down.

Grymt

Hi Brainsey. I was just thinking about what I wrote there and it's not really necessary, respectful even.. I have to watch that tendency of mine..

One thing that's really important is get to a space where you feel secure. Where you can relax. It's there that a lot of transformation takes place. Take it easy.

Be well.

Briansy

Well, I suppose all of the peripheral stuff supports it, but the actual actions would be: urge surfing and playing the tape forward - being made easier by playing the tape forward all of those times where even a hint of a mental association with alcohol occurs or a ping goes off in your head by some ad for alcohol or passing a busy pub or whatever. So you're gradually retraining the brain to instantly react a certain way to those mental associations. What else can one do? Have general conditions in your life supporting a healthy world view and have a handful of "techniques" at hand when the real test comes.

Obviously, the more time that elapses and the more mini tests that one passes, the easier all of it becomes. In theory!!!

Edit: As soon as the thought of drinking arises: tell someone immediately. Preferably someone who knows the score, is non judgemental and will react sensibly. Also post here ASAP.

August252015

Two things and they will probably annoy you:
My dad used to tell me I was trying to create my own special snowflake program. I hated hearing it, but it was true - and I kept on drinking bc it was the kind of back and forth "logic" you are using.

All this talk about setting your mind to something, etc- it means nada if your choice of program doesn't get and keep you sober.

I'm not being judgmental or unkind - I'm being real.

ScottFromWI

I think that's one place that you might be getting caught up. I don't believe you need to "test" yourself, either in a small or big way. Life will happen around you no matter what, so knowingly putting your sobriety on the line to see if you can pass the test is not a very good idea. IMHO.

I am not an AA regular, nor a SMART/AVRT person. In fact I don't really follow any formal "Plan" as written. Having said that, i do have a plan. And it involves me doing things I don't necessarily want to do - AKA - part if any plan is going to be "not for you". If you keep waiting to find a perfect recovery method that is custom tailored to you, you'll never find it. For one thing, every recovery plan requires total abstinence - and for an addict that's "not for me".

I also feel that whatever your plan might be, it always needs to be predicated by a complete acceptance of the following facts:
1. If I drink, bad things will happen - always
2. Picking up even one drink assures me that #1 will happen.
3. Whatever it is about me that makes #1 happen is an unchangeable part of me for the rest of my life.

Some would say that those 3 things mirror step 1 of AA. Maybe they do, maybe not - but it's not really important to me if the do ( or don't ). You could also associate them with the AVRT principles. And likely many other programs. But until I personally accepted those as a fact of my life, nothing changed. No pill, no therapist, no meeting could stop me from drinking. I had to own it and make it happen. Yes I had a lot of help along the way and still do - but at the end of the day it's largely a choice that I make every day.