Back and in a low place
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
I dont think we all need a program, but we do need a plan.
My "program" was this site, and then much later doing the hip sobriety school.
I would never discourage anyone from doing a program, but I truly dont believe its mandatory and that many people stop without any pogram.
Not wanting to get into a debate, that is just my experience.
My "program" was this site, and then much later doing the hip sobriety school.
I would never discourage anyone from doing a program, but I truly dont believe its mandatory and that many people stop without any pogram.
Not wanting to get into a debate, that is just my experience.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI 
I think that's one place that you might be getting caught up. I don't believe you need to "test" yourself, either in a small or big way. Life will happen around you no matter what, so knowingly putting your sobriety on the line to see if you can pass the test is not a very good idea. IMHO.
I am not an AA regular, nor a SMART/AVRT person. In fact I don't really follow any formal "Plan" as written. Having said that, i do have a plan. And it involves me doing things I don't necessarily want to do - AKA - part if any plan is going to be "not for you". If you keep waiting to find a perfect recovery method that is custom tailored to you, you'll never find it. For one thing, every recovery plan requires total abstinence - and for an addict that's "not for me".
I also feel that whatever your plan might be, it always needs to be predicated by a complete acceptance of the following facts:
1. If I drink, bad things will happen - always
2. Picking up even one drink assures me that #1 will happen.
3. Whatever it is about me that makes #1 happen is an unchangeable part of me for the rest of my life.
Some would say that those 3 things mirror step 1 of AA. Maybe they do, maybe not - but it's not really important to me if the do ( or don't ). You could also associate them with the AVRT principles. And likely many other programs. But until I personally accepted those as a fact of my life, nothing changed. No pill, no therapist, no meeting could stop me from drinking. I had to own it and make it happen. Yes I had a lot of help along the way and still do - but at the end of the day it's largely a choice that I make every day.
I am not an AA regular, nor a SMART/AVRT person. In fact I don't really follow any formal "Plan" as written. Having said that, i do have a plan. And it involves me doing things I don't necessarily want to do - AKA - part if any plan is going to be "not for you". If you keep waiting to find a perfect recovery method that is custom tailored to you, you'll never find it. For one thing, every recovery plan requires total abstinence - and for an addict that's "not for me".
I also feel that whatever your plan might be, it always needs to be predicated by a complete acceptance of the following facts:
1. If I drink, bad things will happen - always
2. Picking up even one drink assures me that #1 will happen.
3. Whatever it is about me that makes #1 happen is an unchangeable part of me for the rest of my life.
Some would say that those 3 things mirror step 1 of AA. Maybe they do, maybe not - but it's not really important to me if the do ( or don't ). You could also associate them with the AVRT principles. And likely many other programs. But until I personally accepted those as a fact of my life, nothing changed. No pill, no therapist, no meeting could stop me from drinking. I had to own it and make it happen. Yes I had a lot of help along the way and still do - but at the end of the day it's largely a choice that I make every day.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by August252015
Two things and they will probably annoy you:
My dad used to tell me I was trying to create my own special snowflake program. I hated hearing it, but it was true - and I kept on drinking bc it was the kind of back and forth "logic" you are using.
All this talk about setting your mind to something, etc- it means nada if your choice of program doesn't get and keep you sober.
I'm not being judgmental or unkind - I'm being real.
My dad used to tell me I was trying to create my own special snowflake program. I hated hearing it, but it was true - and I kept on drinking bc it was the kind of back and forth "logic" you are using.
All this talk about setting your mind to something, etc- it means nada if your choice of program doesn't get and keep you sober.
I'm not being judgmental or unkind - I'm being real.
You're making it sound like I'm telling everyone they're wrong and try to reinvent the wheel when all I'm really doing is pointing to recovery advice that resonated with me.
Tell me I'm missing something here.
I gotta admit, this attempt at encouragement and support is proving to be rather frustrating and counterproductive.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
In the interest of not getting into any back and forth, I hope you will take the sum total of my comments and as we do say in AA "take what you want and leave the rest."
"program," "plan," semantics, whatever- my regular attempts at contributing the following:
Echoing what works for the most people who stay sober- whatever terminology used, some underlying and simple agenda (to stay sober) is there
To point out, whether gently or more directly, red flags.
To cull things down to that simple thing again, when people seem to be (over) complicating things.
Just my way of sharing my relatively short (3.5 yrs) of sobriety, watching a whole lot of people talk good plan (like the friend who just relapsed and is such an intelligent person who really talked like he finally "got it"), looking at those who have the life I want....
It doesn't matter how you get and more importantly stay sober, Briansy. Just that you do it- and in my experience, taking heed from those who do hear you and have gotten sober for 10 days, 100 days, 10 years, whatever...odaat.
Peace.
"program," "plan," semantics, whatever- my regular attempts at contributing the following:
Echoing what works for the most people who stay sober- whatever terminology used, some underlying and simple agenda (to stay sober) is there
To point out, whether gently or more directly, red flags.
To cull things down to that simple thing again, when people seem to be (over) complicating things.
Just my way of sharing my relatively short (3.5 yrs) of sobriety, watching a whole lot of people talk good plan (like the friend who just relapsed and is such an intelligent person who really talked like he finally "got it"), looking at those who have the life I want....
It doesn't matter how you get and more importantly stay sober, Briansy. Just that you do it- and in my experience, taking heed from those who do hear you and have gotten sober for 10 days, 100 days, 10 years, whatever...odaat.
Peace.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 850
Hey Briansy,
I think you're doing your best. I really do. And I think you *have* made a lot of progress since you've joined SR. And that's really awesome. I mean that sincerely.
I guess the vibe I've gotten from your posts (and maybe I'm making this up, who knows) is that you still seem like you can outsmart this disease in some way. Not that you think you can still moderate, but if you find the key to alcoholism by thinking about it a whole bunch, you'll have solved it and can live life free and sober.
Some people love that stuff. Thinking about how the brain works and retraining it to think and do certain things. I just think that when it comes to alcoholism, some folks on here might be tired simply because they personally have found there's no use in trying to analyze it. Perhaps people aren't sensing from you that surrender that AA always talks about (
) and this is why they believe that you haven't "gotten it" yet. You are absolutely free to intellectualize it as much as you want, but for me, it feels very simple. We must not drink no matter what, and do whatever it takes to achieve that.
I am not attempting to criticize you or your methods at all. I have just been reading your threads for awhile and I wanted to point out a theme or vibe that I got that may be causing the frustration. For a lot of people here though, they were staring death in the face and could not afford to spend time thinking of all these things. It was quit or die. So I suppose it's frustrating to see someone try and out think alcoholism (regardless of whether or not that's what you're doing). It's easy to get frustrated when you are concerned that someone else could eventually face that same decision of quit or die.
I think in the end, you are right in that we are all figuring this out. I don't want to speak for others on this forum, but these are my feelings on what I have observed particularly on this thread. We all have our own recovery methods and advice is given by people with every alkie story in the book.
Take what you want and leave the rest. I'm rooting for you, as always.
I think you're doing your best. I really do. And I think you *have* made a lot of progress since you've joined SR. And that's really awesome. I mean that sincerely.
I guess the vibe I've gotten from your posts (and maybe I'm making this up, who knows) is that you still seem like you can outsmart this disease in some way. Not that you think you can still moderate, but if you find the key to alcoholism by thinking about it a whole bunch, you'll have solved it and can live life free and sober.
Some people love that stuff. Thinking about how the brain works and retraining it to think and do certain things. I just think that when it comes to alcoholism, some folks on here might be tired simply because they personally have found there's no use in trying to analyze it. Perhaps people aren't sensing from you that surrender that AA always talks about (
) and this is why they believe that you haven't "gotten it" yet. You are absolutely free to intellectualize it as much as you want, but for me, it feels very simple. We must not drink no matter what, and do whatever it takes to achieve that. I am not attempting to criticize you or your methods at all. I have just been reading your threads for awhile and I wanted to point out a theme or vibe that I got that may be causing the frustration. For a lot of people here though, they were staring death in the face and could not afford to spend time thinking of all these things. It was quit or die. So I suppose it's frustrating to see someone try and out think alcoholism (regardless of whether or not that's what you're doing). It's easy to get frustrated when you are concerned that someone else could eventually face that same decision of quit or die.
I think in the end, you are right in that we are all figuring this out. I don't want to speak for others on this forum, but these are my feelings on what I have observed particularly on this thread. We all have our own recovery methods and advice is given by people with every alkie story in the book.
Take what you want and leave the rest. I'm rooting for you, as always.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland maine
Posts: 1,330
12 days in for me. No program, rather this site and a remarkable counselor. So relate to many folks here. My counselor is helping me see how self hate and looking back is of no use. She keeps reminding me that I may be 63, but I've could have a good life with my family and myself staying the course for some years to come. If I pick up it's death this time. No outsmarting anymore....
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
dpac - brilliant and just what I have been trying to say. Thank you. (It also helps me as I process what little I can do for the friend I mentioned - it is indeed a possible life and death situation and I don't know if he can make it back).
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
As a thinker by trade, I ultimately found I wasn't able to think my way through this addiction. Only taking action to quit without exception or final answers has worked.
I also find letting go trying to resolve the bottle's alchemy to my particular situation and leaving its mystery to get on with my life free of it has been enLightening in a literal way I never expected.
Wishing you peaceful sobriety and healing B.
I also find letting go trying to resolve the bottle's alchemy to my particular situation and leaving its mystery to get on with my life free of it has been enLightening in a literal way I never expected.
Wishing you peaceful sobriety and healing B.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Hey, Brainsey. I was addicted to what then was over the counter cough syrup. Glug. Yuck. horrible stuff. It had synthetic speed and opiate and in excess seemed to make work more bearable while it was priming me for a bust which led to a benzo addiction. It took some time but I managed to kick the lot including coffee and cigs. (Sugars next) . The glug was shameful. I used to go to about 4 or 5 different shops to buy it so noone would figure out what I was up to. Just like when boozing. Just because i wasn't drinking I managed to convince myself that was ok. Just as cheating on my wife was ok. Neglecting my kids. Leaving home. Starting to drink again. Horrible person. It's a spiral I'm so glad I'm out of. It wasn't easy
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by Grymt
Hey, Brainsey. I was addicted to what then was over the counter cough syrup. Glug. Yuck. horrible stuff. It had synthetic speed and opiate and in excess seemed to make work more bearable while it was priming me for a bust which led to a benzo addiction. It took some time but I managed to kick the lot including coffee and cigs. (Sugars next) . The glug was shameful. I used to go to about 4 or 5 different shops to buy it so noone would figure out what I was up to. Just like when boozing. Just because i wasn't drinking I managed to convince myself that was ok. Just as cheating on my wife was ok. Neglecting my kids. Leaving home. Starting to drink again. Horrible person. It's a spiral I'm so glad I'm out of. It wasn't easy
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
There is a choice and a way out
HI Mate,
Thanks for your post and i'm sorry to hear. Addiction certainly is cunning and baffling and is the only illness i know which will sometime force family to have to turn there back on there own family. There is a solution though.
I'm in recovery myself and battled endlessly until i was finally beaten enough to A) ask for help and B) put in the work required to overcome the illness. I was expelled from school, messed up exams and stole from family and friends constantly to drink. I was diagnosed with alcoholism at the age of 18, i attended my first in patient treatment program at the age of 19 suffice to say i was not ready or willing to change. I played and manipulated my loved ones constantly in order to obtain the funds and means to continue my using with little to no regard of what i was doing to them or putting them through. when i was 22 i thought i had enough, lost the girl i though i was in love with and after another drinking spree which involved yet another hospital visit i thought i was ready so i rocked up at the doors of AA in London ready to give it a go and i did, i went through the 12 steps and worked the program on a daily basis, i wish i could leave it there but Alcohol and drugs are subtle foes... I stopped the meetings and stopped working the program, finished university still sober and the girl had come back into my life. I was offered a job in New York and decided i could drink again, the brakes came off and very quickly the insanity returned, i was posted to Dubai and the binges came closer and closer together needless to say the girl left again and the family started to push me away. After i was fired i returned to London and tried AA again, i went in and out multiple times in a 3 year period managing to obtain 3-6 weeks of sobriety each time, i had multiple sponsors who tried to help me but in my mind they were the fault and the reason i kept going in and out, My father ever loyal ensured i wasnt homeless and supported me in many ways which i used with efficiency. I WAS incapable of taking responsibility and being honest with anyone including myself, the usual things happened Homelessness, Destitution, Bankruptcy, multiple hospital visits and countless relationships. I moved to Asia for work and again the drinking continued destined for 6 feet under i continued and give up on AA and sobriety. What happened for me the in was divine intervention and love from my father. As i sat in my flat (now in Marocco) i was sitting drinking alone as usual, having just been fired from job number 25, something happened, a real gift. I saw my life go before me, (it didn't look good) then i had a flash that i could change and the sudden urge to do so over took me.
I opted and was fortunate enough for my father to give me the opportunity to attend a in treatment rehab in South Africa (6th treatment centre)(Highlands Recovery), which i jumped at with all haste, the game was up for me and i could feel it in my heart the drinking was done. Furthermore alcohol was not doing what i wanted it do, felt miserable with and with out it, if i was to continue the doctors would have been rite and i would be dead by 30. I went down to SA attended treatment in a facility which prides itself on being the final treatment center you will ever need. A lot of foreigners go there due to the costs and environments being much nicer than other places. I got involved in the program and picked up a new sponsor, My father supported me and now my family are back in my life, my friends are back, i have a piece and serenity which is more wonderful as time passes and have a career in a industry i never thought i would be in.
I'm now 28 and life is opening up, what i'm trying to say is, i had to beat myself into the ground many times before i was willing to help myself, what people told me went over my head and i wasn't interested int here help. I got ready to listen and opened up. Went through the steps which changed my whole outlook and attitude. I did it for me and so i didn't have to be that person again. This is a illness that centers in the mind and tells the carrier they don't have it. I help others now and give back, when i look back on who i was i cringe and cant believe who that guy is. Most importantly i give back and im there for my family who now trust me. Dont give up, there is a way out and there are people willing to help. i'm more than willing.
Thanks for your post and i'm sorry to hear. Addiction certainly is cunning and baffling and is the only illness i know which will sometime force family to have to turn there back on there own family. There is a solution though.
I'm in recovery myself and battled endlessly until i was finally beaten enough to A) ask for help and B) put in the work required to overcome the illness. I was expelled from school, messed up exams and stole from family and friends constantly to drink. I was diagnosed with alcoholism at the age of 18, i attended my first in patient treatment program at the age of 19 suffice to say i was not ready or willing to change. I played and manipulated my loved ones constantly in order to obtain the funds and means to continue my using with little to no regard of what i was doing to them or putting them through. when i was 22 i thought i had enough, lost the girl i though i was in love with and after another drinking spree which involved yet another hospital visit i thought i was ready so i rocked up at the doors of AA in London ready to give it a go and i did, i went through the 12 steps and worked the program on a daily basis, i wish i could leave it there but Alcohol and drugs are subtle foes... I stopped the meetings and stopped working the program, finished university still sober and the girl had come back into my life. I was offered a job in New York and decided i could drink again, the brakes came off and very quickly the insanity returned, i was posted to Dubai and the binges came closer and closer together needless to say the girl left again and the family started to push me away. After i was fired i returned to London and tried AA again, i went in and out multiple times in a 3 year period managing to obtain 3-6 weeks of sobriety each time, i had multiple sponsors who tried to help me but in my mind they were the fault and the reason i kept going in and out, My father ever loyal ensured i wasnt homeless and supported me in many ways which i used with efficiency. I WAS incapable of taking responsibility and being honest with anyone including myself, the usual things happened Homelessness, Destitution, Bankruptcy, multiple hospital visits and countless relationships. I moved to Asia for work and again the drinking continued destined for 6 feet under i continued and give up on AA and sobriety. What happened for me the in was divine intervention and love from my father. As i sat in my flat (now in Marocco) i was sitting drinking alone as usual, having just been fired from job number 25, something happened, a real gift. I saw my life go before me, (it didn't look good) then i had a flash that i could change and the sudden urge to do so over took me.
I opted and was fortunate enough for my father to give me the opportunity to attend a in treatment rehab in South Africa (6th treatment centre)(Highlands Recovery), which i jumped at with all haste, the game was up for me and i could feel it in my heart the drinking was done. Furthermore alcohol was not doing what i wanted it do, felt miserable with and with out it, if i was to continue the doctors would have been rite and i would be dead by 30. I went down to SA attended treatment in a facility which prides itself on being the final treatment center you will ever need. A lot of foreigners go there due to the costs and environments being much nicer than other places. I got involved in the program and picked up a new sponsor, My father supported me and now my family are back in my life, my friends are back, i have a piece and serenity which is more wonderful as time passes and have a career in a industry i never thought i would be in.
I'm now 28 and life is opening up, what i'm trying to say is, i had to beat myself into the ground many times before i was willing to help myself, what people told me went over my head and i wasn't interested int here help. I got ready to listen and opened up. Went through the steps which changed my whole outlook and attitude. I did it for me and so i didn't have to be that person again. This is a illness that centers in the mind and tells the carrier they don't have it. I help others now and give back, when i look back on who i was i cringe and cant believe who that guy is. Most importantly i give back and im there for my family who now trust me. Dont give up, there is a way out and there are people willing to help. i'm more than willing.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Hey B - random thought! Lots of enjoy talking to you and hearing what you are doing, and maybe a new thread with a (positive, or just different) title than the "low place?" You've been evolving thru this one, and like you said feel like you are thinking differently...semantics matter to me so I just thought a peppier (note: yes I was a cheerleader) title might inspire
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
