Are meetings necessary?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: co
Posts: 329
Brick,
If you still drinking, any step you take is better than picking up again. Do what it takes to stop. Some use bits and pieces of different ideas. The point is focus on YOUR sobriety. I can hear the pain in your posts. I grew up with an abusive father & a victim mother. I'm older now, and it still hurts, but my drinking only made it worse. Don't focus on the hurt, focus on getting yourself free of the poison. The rest will slowly get better.
If you still drinking, any step you take is better than picking up again. Do what it takes to stop. Some use bits and pieces of different ideas. The point is focus on YOUR sobriety. I can hear the pain in your posts. I grew up with an abusive father & a victim mother. I'm older now, and it still hurts, but my drinking only made it worse. Don't focus on the hurt, focus on getting yourself free of the poison. The rest will slowly get better.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
There are over one hundred meetings a week in Auckland and an amazing young people's group in the middle of town. I am heading there next week for a few days and am really looking forward to seeing some of the many friends I have made in my past visits.
In my perception of things, AA is a last resort. I don't see the program having much attraction to someone who believes they have a load of other options. There program is simple but not easy, and a completely different thing from the meetings. There are some things that the program suggests which I would have seen as avoidable if I thought I could get around it another way, and the program doesn't work as well, if at all, if bits are missed out.
The way I approached it was to try everything else first, which included having a few things tried on me against my will, and when all that failed I went to AA with the necessary willingness to succeed. I knew I was out of options.
It depends quite a lot on what type of alcoholic you are. Many here have not lost the power of choice, so they more or less chose to be sober. Good for them. I wasn't like that. I found that out by repeatedly trying (with and without support) and failing. I was medically diagnosed as hopeless, and expert medical opinion here is that the only solution for an alcoholic of my type is some kind of conversion experience, and AA are regarded as the experts in that field.
Luckily I survived my experimenting and was able to go to AA. 2 others from my rehab group also went to AA and are still sober. The other seven were all dead in a year. We were all the same type of alcoholic.
I meet folks like me in the local detox wards. Many don't get well they just get worse trying to get by on their own. The nursing staff call them "frequent flyers".
By all means try other approaches. You may find something that works. If you don't, and you survive, then AA might be a bit more attractive.
In my perception of things, AA is a last resort. I don't see the program having much attraction to someone who believes they have a load of other options. There program is simple but not easy, and a completely different thing from the meetings. There are some things that the program suggests which I would have seen as avoidable if I thought I could get around it another way, and the program doesn't work as well, if at all, if bits are missed out.
The way I approached it was to try everything else first, which included having a few things tried on me against my will, and when all that failed I went to AA with the necessary willingness to succeed. I knew I was out of options.
It depends quite a lot on what type of alcoholic you are. Many here have not lost the power of choice, so they more or less chose to be sober. Good for them. I wasn't like that. I found that out by repeatedly trying (with and without support) and failing. I was medically diagnosed as hopeless, and expert medical opinion here is that the only solution for an alcoholic of my type is some kind of conversion experience, and AA are regarded as the experts in that field.
Luckily I survived my experimenting and was able to go to AA. 2 others from my rehab group also went to AA and are still sober. The other seven were all dead in a year. We were all the same type of alcoholic.
I meet folks like me in the local detox wards. Many don't get well they just get worse trying to get by on their own. The nursing staff call them "frequent flyers".
By all means try other approaches. You may find something that works. If you don't, and you survive, then AA might be a bit more attractive.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Auckland
Posts: 73
Thanks so much Mike. I don't really know where I fit in the problem drinking sphere - I've never spoken to anyone about it. I did go to a therapist for a bit (to discuss my family issues), and we touched on drinking. She never told me I had an issue, but I think that's what therapists do. She probably wanted me to tell her I thought I had a problem! I stopped going after a couple of sessions, as I didn't want to talk about it.
I have stopped before, and didn't touch a drop for five years. After the first month or so, it was easy, and I didn't think about alcohol most of the time. But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks) I'm not like how my dad was at the end, when he would have a full bottle of vodka in his hand, look back and it would be empty (i.e. blacking out, and not remembering starting to drink, let alone the middle or end bits!) He was very ill when he stopped drinking, and I'm certainly not at that level. Which is good, as the doctor gave him months to live towards the end! However, I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
That was a bit of a ramble, but hopefully all makes sense! I could probably deal with this on my own, and with the help of the forum. I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track, which is possibly where the meetings might come in handy.
I have stopped before, and didn't touch a drop for five years. After the first month or so, it was easy, and I didn't think about alcohol most of the time. But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks) I'm not like how my dad was at the end, when he would have a full bottle of vodka in his hand, look back and it would be empty (i.e. blacking out, and not remembering starting to drink, let alone the middle or end bits!) He was very ill when he stopped drinking, and I'm certainly not at that level. Which is good, as the doctor gave him months to live towards the end! However, I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
That was a bit of a ramble, but hopefully all makes sense! I could probably deal with this on my own, and with the help of the forum. I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track, which is possibly where the meetings might come in handy.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
"I'm not like how my dad was at the end, when he would have a full bottle of vodka in his hand, look back and it would be empty...."
heres the introduction to the second set of stories in the big book:
They Stopped In Time
Among today’s incoming A.A. members, many have
never reached the advanced stages of alcoholism, though
given time all might have.
Most of these fortunate ones have had little or no ac-
quaintance with delirium, with hospitals, asylums, and
jails. Some were drinking heavily, and there had been occa-
sional serious episodes. But with many, drinking had been
little more than a sometimes uncontrollable nuisance.
Seldom had any of these lost either health, business, family,
or friends.
Why do men and women like these join A.A.?
The seventeen who now tell their experiences answer
that question. They saw that they had become actual or po-
tential alcoholics, even though no serious harm had yet
been done.
They realized that repeated lack of drinking control,
when they really wanted control, was the fatal symptom
that spelled problem drinking. This, plus mounting emo-
tional disturbances, convinced them that compulsive alco-
holism already had them; that complete ruin would be only
a question of time.
Seeing this danger, they came to A.A. They realized that
in the end alcoholism could be as mortal as cancer; cer-
tainly no sane man would wait for a malignant growth to
become fatal before seeking help.
Therefore, these seventeen A.A.’s, and hundreds of thou-
sands like them, have been saved years of infinite suffering.
They sum it up something like this: “We didn’t wait to hit
bottom because, thank God, we could see the bottom.
Actually, the bottom came up and hit us. That sold us on
Alcoholics Anonymous.
heres the introduction to the second set of stories in the big book:
They Stopped In Time
Among today’s incoming A.A. members, many have
never reached the advanced stages of alcoholism, though
given time all might have.
Most of these fortunate ones have had little or no ac-
quaintance with delirium, with hospitals, asylums, and
jails. Some were drinking heavily, and there had been occa-
sional serious episodes. But with many, drinking had been
little more than a sometimes uncontrollable nuisance.
Seldom had any of these lost either health, business, family,
or friends.
Why do men and women like these join A.A.?
The seventeen who now tell their experiences answer
that question. They saw that they had become actual or po-
tential alcoholics, even though no serious harm had yet
been done.
They realized that repeated lack of drinking control,
when they really wanted control, was the fatal symptom
that spelled problem drinking. This, plus mounting emo-
tional disturbances, convinced them that compulsive alco-
holism already had them; that complete ruin would be only
a question of time.
Seeing this danger, they came to A.A. They realized that
in the end alcoholism could be as mortal as cancer; cer-
tainly no sane man would wait for a malignant growth to
become fatal before seeking help.
Therefore, these seventeen A.A.’s, and hundreds of thou-
sands like them, have been saved years of infinite suffering.
They sum it up something like this: “We didn’t wait to hit
bottom because, thank God, we could see the bottom.
Actually, the bottom came up and hit us. That sold us on
Alcoholics Anonymous.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by BrickbyBrick83 
I don't really know where I fit in the problem drinking sphere
But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks)
I'm not like how my dad was at the end
I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track.
But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks)
I'm not like how my dad was at the end
I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track.
I would suggest that you are most likely in the rationalization stage currently. By that I mean that you are pretty sure you think there's a problem, but you aren't convinced yet. You are comparing your drinking to your fathers as well and since he was so deep into it your drinking doesn't look so bad. But if you also know you have lost control of your ability to drink responsibly and it's happened not just once but several times over many years.
You can learn a lot from others who have been in the same situation here on SR. And remember that should you decide that you do need to commit to sobriety, there are many ways to do it.
Last edited by ScottFromWI; 01-08-2017 at 07:14 PM.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by BrickbyBrick83
Thanks so much Mike. I don't really know where I fit in the problem drinking sphere - I've never spoken to anyone about it. I did go to a therapist for a bit (to discuss my family issues), and we touched on drinking. She never told me I had an issue, but I think that's what therapists do. She probably wanted me to tell her I thought I had a problem! I stopped going after a couple of sessions, as I didn't want to talk about it.
I have stopped before, and didn't touch a drop for five years. After the first month or so, it was easy, and I didn't think about alcohol most of the time. But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks) I'm not like how my dad was at the end, when he would have a full bottle of vodka in his hand, look back and it would be empty (i.e. blacking out, and not remembering starting to drink, let alone the middle or end bits!) He was very ill when he stopped drinking, and I'm certainly not at that level. Which is good, as the doctor gave him months to live towards the end! However, I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
That was a bit of a ramble, but hopefully all makes sense! I could probably deal with this on my own, and with the help of the forum. I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track, which is possibly where the meetings might come in handy.
I have stopped before, and didn't touch a drop for five years. After the first month or so, it was easy, and I didn't think about alcohol most of the time. But then I fell into the trap of thinking I could drink moderately, and one glass of wine one night led to a thousand more over the course of the next few years.
I didn't have any physical withdrawal symptoms when I stopped this time - or the previous time (other than anxiety during the first few weeks) I'm not like how my dad was at the end, when he would have a full bottle of vodka in his hand, look back and it would be empty (i.e. blacking out, and not remembering starting to drink, let alone the middle or end bits!) He was very ill when he stopped drinking, and I'm certainly not at that level. Which is good, as the doctor gave him months to live towards the end! However, I very much believe that I could end up like my dad (and mum, who is also an alcoholic) if I don't take control and commit to sobriety now.
That was a bit of a ramble, but hopefully all makes sense! I could probably deal with this on my own, and with the help of the forum. I'm a little worried that the complacency/wanting to be a normal drinker will kick in at some point down the track, which is possibly where the meetings might come in handy.
Likewise your experience with drinking as you have described it, is quite similar to that described in the AA big book. I imagine you would have access to a big book? So one of the things you could do is have a read of the Doctor's Opinion, and chapters two and three. Look at it from the point of view of your own experience with drinking and living. When it describes a certain aspect or experience, ask your self the question "does that line up with my experience"?
It talks about drinking patterns of course, but also about how we feel without alcohol in our system. If you find you identify, then perhaps you might like to meet some other alcoholics and see what their experience is. That is where meetings come in handy. Even better, if you happen to know a recovered alcoholic, maybe spend an our or two with them and sus it out.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Auckland
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
I would suggest that you see most likely in the rationalization stage currently. By that I mean that you are pretty sure you think there's a problem, but you aren't convinced yet. You are comparing your drinking to your fathers as well and since he was so deep into it your drinking doesn't look so bad. But if you also know you have lost control of your ability to drink responsibly and it's happened not just once but several times over many years
I don't talk about my mum a lot, but her habits are actually almost identical to what mine have been. She has drunk at least two bottles of wine nightly for years. She lives in the UK but when I do see her, she is barely ever sober. I tried to help her early on, when I was younger. I even wrote her a letter once, but it made her so angry! It makes me so very sad. She is a beautiful person - funny, far more intelligent than she thinks she is, and stunning on the outside as well. But I only ever get snippets of who she actually is these days. She is irrational, over the top, and often plain nasty when she's drinking.
I have fallen out with my eldest brother over it. He thinks I should have done more about it when I was living in the UK. He doesn't understand that I did try everything. My dad even took her to an AA meeting once (they're divorced now, but still talk - sometimes), and she walked out as she, "isn't like those people." Brother hasn't spoken to me in years because of my failing to "fix" our mother. Family! Sometimes I think I'd be better off without them!
It does frustrate me that I have ended up doing exactly the same as my mum - completely identical habits! Hopefully, my saving grace will be my inward thinking. I have also been very self-aware, self-analytical, and interested in how the brain works etc. I don't think my mum has that.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Hi...you sound as though you might be a "double winner"...one of us fortunate folks that have at least one alcoholic parent and all that that brings, on top our own nicely brewing illness.
I would guess that you're someone who strives to be independent, minimises your own problems and worries about other people a lot. I could of course be off base there.
None of that bars you from being an alcoholic. It just might make it a little harder for you to see the problem. If you have little control over the amount you take once you commenced to drink...or if when you honestly want to you cannot quit entirely...you are probably alcoholic. Least that's what our big book says.
You don't need to drink like your dad did. Neither do you have to have the same personality as he has. Alcoholism can play out in lots of different ways.
P
I would guess that you're someone who strives to be independent, minimises your own problems and worries about other people a lot. I could of course be off base there.
None of that bars you from being an alcoholic. It just might make it a little harder for you to see the problem. If you have little control over the amount you take once you commenced to drink...or if when you honestly want to you cannot quit entirely...you are probably alcoholic. Least that's what our big book says.
You don't need to drink like your dad did. Neither do you have to have the same personality as he has. Alcoholism can play out in lots of different ways.
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Auckland
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by paulokes
I would guess that you're someone who strives to be independent, minimises your own problems and worries about other people a lot. I could of course be off base there.
P
P
I'm the breadwinner in our household; I pay the mortgage; do all the taxes; plan our holidays; I don't even like people helping me in the kitchen, haha. I know that I take on a lot, and find it hard to let other people help out. Definitely something I need to work on!
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by BrickbyBrick83
and if I continue down the path, I am 100% sure that I will be in the same spot as my dad in ten years or whenever. It's a terrifying prospect.
So, if I'm understanding correctly, you aren't confused about wanting to quit for good, you're just confused about how to go about that. It appears that your initial post was about whether you could be successful at being permanently abstinent and have a happy life without a set of guiding principles outlining how to do that. Tell me, in your 5 years of abstinence were you basically happy? Did you improve things that may have been dinged up from alcohol use? Or were you completely confused about life and how to live?
It seems to be that quitting, and even staying quit for long periods isn't a problem for you, but that your AV sneaks in a convinces you otherwise somewhere along the line. My suggestion would be to learn how to identify your AV and then recognize and separate ITS voice from your own true voice. Have you ever heard of AVRT? It teaches you how to do that.
You need never be fooled again.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Auckland
Posts: 73
Nope, I am now definitely aware that I have a problem with drinking, and will continue the family "tradition," if I don't keep away from it (I'm 9 days sober today, by the way).
And yes, I was interested in whether meetings are necessary for long-term success. I guess because that's the route my dad took, and he talks about AA a lot. I've always had the message from him that you have to go to meetings if you drink, otherwise you will relapse.
I stopped drinking the first time as I ended up wasted after a work conference, and ended up having to wrestle a guy that I'd shared a taxi with off the top of me. Thank goodness I still had the ability to do that. That's all I remember of the night! It frightened me enough to stop me drinking, but I don't think I fully accepted that it happened b/c I have a problem with alcohol. If that makes sense? My hubby and I were also living with my dad for two of the five years, and had zero money for most of the entire five years. Both things that were drinking barriers. If they hadn't been there (spare cash, living somewhere else), I'd have probably started drinking earlier.
I feel like I've turned a corner now. I told my husband that I have a problem about an hour ago, and can't drink again. And I told him why. That's a big step for me. I've put it off and put it off, as I knew it would signify the end of my drinking. He said that he has worried about it for ages, but didn't know what to do.
I don't know much about AV - I don't even know what it stands for (possibly alcoholic's voice??) so will have to do some reading!
And yes, I was interested in whether meetings are necessary for long-term success. I guess because that's the route my dad took, and he talks about AA a lot. I've always had the message from him that you have to go to meetings if you drink, otherwise you will relapse.
I stopped drinking the first time as I ended up wasted after a work conference, and ended up having to wrestle a guy that I'd shared a taxi with off the top of me. Thank goodness I still had the ability to do that. That's all I remember of the night! It frightened me enough to stop me drinking, but I don't think I fully accepted that it happened b/c I have a problem with alcohol. If that makes sense? My hubby and I were also living with my dad for two of the five years, and had zero money for most of the entire five years. Both things that were drinking barriers. If they hadn't been there (spare cash, living somewhere else), I'd have probably started drinking earlier.
I feel like I've turned a corner now. I told my husband that I have a problem about an hour ago, and can't drink again. And I told him why. That's a big step for me. I've put it off and put it off, as I knew it would signify the end of my drinking. He said that he has worried about it for ages, but didn't know what to do.
I don't know much about AV - I don't even know what it stands for (possibly alcoholic's voice??) so will have to do some reading!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,095
Today I attended my third AA meeting within a five day span and I am liking it more and more...they are so empowering.
The meeting I went to today was a Big Book study. A lot of good people and a good discussion.
AA is necessary in my book.
The meeting I went to today was a Big Book study. A lot of good people and a good discussion.
AA is necessary in my book.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
BrickbyBrick,
Well you have all the evidence you need to know that drinking is a downhill run. You can say that you can't ever drink...or you can frame it that you won't drink again because you are claiming the one and only life you have as your own and you aren't going to eff it up with drinking. That decision can be consciously made and stuck to. That is well within your ability.
I have had people tell me it's impossible to quit and stay quit without a program. Those individuals may believe that to be true for themselves, but that is in no way an overall factual statement. It just isn't true. I'll tell you what was never good for me...doubt and fear. Doubt and fear were disastrous every time. Have confidence in your ability, You can do this.
I'm glad you feel you've turned a corner and that you've talked with your husband. He sounds very supportive. That's a nice thing to have. Read up on AVRT; the technique has been really helpful for many. Keep moving forward.
Well you have all the evidence you need to know that drinking is a downhill run. You can say that you can't ever drink...or you can frame it that you won't drink again because you are claiming the one and only life you have as your own and you aren't going to eff it up with drinking. That decision can be consciously made and stuck to. That is well within your ability.
I have had people tell me it's impossible to quit and stay quit without a program. Those individuals may believe that to be true for themselves, but that is in no way an overall factual statement. It just isn't true. I'll tell you what was never good for me...doubt and fear. Doubt and fear were disastrous every time. Have confidence in your ability, You can do this.
I'm glad you feel you've turned a corner and that you've talked with your husband. He sounds very supportive. That's a nice thing to have. Read up on AVRT; the technique has been really helpful for many. Keep moving forward.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
I know I need them. I especially needed them at the beginning. The people I have seen succeed are the folks who throw themselves into AA. I've not seen anyone succeed who has just stuck their toe into recovery. All in...or else, you're out.
My cousin is sober but he did not go the AA route. He threw himself into buddhism and meditation.
I have another cousin who is still sober after 20 years. She was once super involved in AA but now no longer goes to meetings.
I'm 19 months sober so I still hit 3-4 meetings a week. Religiously.
My cousin is sober but he did not go the AA route. He threw himself into buddhism and meditation.
I have another cousin who is still sober after 20 years. She was once super involved in AA but now no longer goes to meetings.
I'm 19 months sober so I still hit 3-4 meetings a week. Religiously.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 74
Everyone is different I guess. I went to meetings for about 2 months once a week. Then i stopped going as my job picked up. That was nearly 4 years ago. I think my motivation to stay away from the drink was my mother. The visible personification of the devil. And there was no way I was going to drink under her roof...
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