For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad
Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 67
I'm still waking up after eleven months like I'm hungover often...my god!! Also new development last few days - weirdly depressed and I mean weirdly. Like not even really depressed but intrusive thoughts that are bothering me because my mind knows it will upset me. I read on here like three days ago in another post that someone on here had serious depressive symptoms, this then scared the hell out of me .. I started thinking what if I start to feel like this too...then my mind started playing tricks on me..now I'm worried I am going to get them too. Things have to pick up. Paws feels to me like what I would expect chemotherapy to feel like.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 18
Hey Drycucumber, I’m about ten months in and I no longer have any physical paws symptoms but I also sometimes wake up feeling hungover. Pretty strange right? My depressive symptoms started around the 7-8 month mark. Some days are better then others but some days I feel pretty lost and hopeless and not like myself at all. I had never experienced depression before I quit drinking and it’s not fun. I think we just have to hang on and let our body and brain do it’s magic. The worst part has been not feeling even remotely like myself for the last 10 months. I’m working on some coping techniques so I don’t freak myself out to much about when I feel weird. For me if I start thinking to much about how I’m feeling, I start to freak myself out and it makes it so much worse. So I’m working on containing my fear thoughts and trying to accept my position and know that I won’t feel this way forever. Hang tight, and don’t worry too much, things can only get better with time.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 213
I was reading on the benzo buddies site the other day dry and they too mentioned that breathing difficulty you are having. Thought I’d mention it as you are not the only one and it does indicate withdrawal. Sometimes it just helps to know you not gone mad.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by SaberK33 
Hey Drycucumber, I’m about ten months in and I no longer have any physical paws symptoms but I also sometimes wake up feeling hungover. Pretty strange right? My depressive symptoms started around the 7-8 month mark. Some days are better then others but some days I feel pretty lost and hopeless and not like myself at all. I had never experienced depression before I quit drinking and it’s not fun. I think we just have to hang on and let our body and brain do it’s magic. The worst part has been not feeling even remotely like myself for the last 10 months. I’m working on some coping techniques so I don’t freak myself out to much about when I feel weird. For me if I start thinking to much about how I’m feeling, I start to freak myself out and it makes it so much worse. So I’m working on containing my fear thoughts and trying to accept my position and know that I won’t feel this way forever. Hang tight, and don’t worry too much, things can only get better with time.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by ringoffire
Hey Saber - well, it sounds like I am in a similar spot to you. Im about 8 months in, and I feel a bit depressed too. I am hanging tight too. It is going to get better.
VinBx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: New York
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by drycucumber77
Does anyone else recall how they felt around the 10-11 month mark?!! I guess I'm really wondering how people felt from this stage until they got back to feeling normal...
I see tou asked about the 11 month mark. At 11 I personally was sort of like a Rollercoaster. Good days and bad days. Around the 12 month mark was when I started to slowly feel better. I would say about 60% I still get paws but it doesn't last as long as it used to, and the symptoms are more manageable. Good luck to you. I'm going to be 13 months in 2 weeks so your right behind me. Hope you feel better and don't give in. All the best.
Vinny
Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 67
Hi all so this weekend was not good, worse than last weekend - so for me it's mainly physical anxiety symptoms still at 11 months. Like still feel internally shaky, still shaky in the legs, muscles all over body sore, still super stressed out from the chest up, feel like a stiff old man when I get up suddenly. Anxiety attack again yesterday. Bumped in to a friend who quit drinking in March and he has been on zoloft and said he currently felt better than ever! Read that librium was great too. Obviously not looking for medical advice, and i would be upset to start an AD 11 months in but can't really cope with feeling anxious and on edge all the time still - I'm not sure if this is paws or something I have had for years - therefore I'm not sure if this sensation will go which is what is so demoralizing.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 21
Personal update, still foggy, although I had a pretty clear evening yesterday, and today clear in the AM, foggy in the afternoon, had anxiety while driving this evening, and now fairly clear headed. Seems like when I leave the house to do something new or something I haven't done in a while, I get anxiety. Started taking milk thistle for the liver, and started drinking liver detox teas, and teas with lemon/ginger, watching my sugar intake as well.
I have Trazodone prescribed, I took it a couple of times in the first few months when I was going through panic attacks. I'm not sure if it did anything or just placebo effect. I also have never really taken any prescription drugs before, and I don't really want to. I mainly have it as a sleep aid, however only took it maybe 5 times in the past year, and it's not really good at aiding my sleep either. I also have Temazepam which I have had prescribed but never used, since it's a benzo, and I've read on here benzos are not good for alcoholics. I heard anti-anxiety or anti-depression drugs take weeks to start working. Maybe there are others that have a more immediate effect? I mean like something that you can take when you have an attack as opposed to something you take regularly? Talk to your doctor and take something that may help if your anxiety attacks are severe enough. Another thing is anxiety itself is not good for the body, or mind. If it can help you live better, that would be great, and when you get to a point that your emotions are under control, just get off of it. Also I would do research about interactions, what brain chemicals they relate to, since you're still in alcohol recovery, or better tell your doctor about it and s/he can recommend something?
I have Trazodone prescribed, I took it a couple of times in the first few months when I was going through panic attacks. I'm not sure if it did anything or just placebo effect. I also have never really taken any prescription drugs before, and I don't really want to. I mainly have it as a sleep aid, however only took it maybe 5 times in the past year, and it's not really good at aiding my sleep either. I also have Temazepam which I have had prescribed but never used, since it's a benzo, and I've read on here benzos are not good for alcoholics. I heard anti-anxiety or anti-depression drugs take weeks to start working. Maybe there are others that have a more immediate effect? I mean like something that you can take when you have an attack as opposed to something you take regularly? Talk to your doctor and take something that may help if your anxiety attacks are severe enough. Another thing is anxiety itself is not good for the body, or mind. If it can help you live better, that would be great, and when you get to a point that your emotions are under control, just get off of it. Also I would do research about interactions, what brain chemicals they relate to, since you're still in alcohol recovery, or better tell your doctor about it and s/he can recommend something?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by drycucumber77
Hi all so this weekend was not good, worse than last weekend - so for me it's mainly physical anxiety symptoms still at 11 months. Like still feel internally shaky, still shaky in the legs, muscles all over body sore, still super stressed out from the chest up, feel like a stiff old man when I get up suddenly. Anxiety attack again yesterday. Bumped in to a friend who quit drinking in March and he has been on zoloft and said he currently felt better than ever! Read that librium was great too. Obviously not looking for medical advice, and i would be upset to start an AD 11 months in but can't really cope with feeling anxious and on edge all the time still - I'm not sure if this is paws or something I have had for years - therefore I'm not sure if this sensation will go which is what is so demoralizing.
I take Zoloft 200mg... does nothing for my PAWS. My theory is because it targets serotonin and dopamine. Not glutamate and GABA. But it’s worth chatting to your doctor.
for what’s it’s worth I’m back in a PAWS wave too and have had panic issues again. But I shall wait patiently for a full window to arrive. Yours will come too. And you WILL heal!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 213
Hi Dave,
meditation really works well for panic attacks and anxiety. Try follow the feelings in your body and tell your brain it’s just a feeling... ask for more of the feeling. It then starts to collapse in on itself. Also NO CAFFEINE.... green tea all the way
meditation really works well for panic attacks and anxiety. Try follow the feelings in your body and tell your brain it’s just a feeling... ask for more of the feeling. It then starts to collapse in on itself. Also NO CAFFEINE.... green tea all the way
Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 21
My anxiety has gotten better over the last few months, however it springs up once in a while.
I tend to notice that every time I write that one of my symptoms is either better or gone, it comes back once I press the "post" button...
Main issue currently is that I have an ache in the outer part of my pectoral are, between my nipples and armpits, on both sides. It comes and goes, not constant. Sometimes dull, sometime pinching. Had ultrasound, only diagnosis was slightly enlarged and slightly fatty liver. Had X-ray done at the ER a few months before that, and they couldn't find anything. Had a cardio stress test, they said everything was fine. Blood work is all "perfect". The doctor doesn't know. says could be a nerve issue due to a surgery that I had over 20 years ago... I feel like if this stupid ache would go away, I would be feeling at about 90%, as I'm at around 4 months sober. Had urine test done about a month ago, they haven't called, so I'm assuming things are alright. My dreams are still very weird, I wake up in the mornings and just can't believe the crap I dreamt.
On a positive note, I haven't had those stupid brain zaps that I normally get right before I drift off to sleep. Also, I used to have my arms get numb which would wake me up. The zaps and numbness I feel had some sort of relationship, but I have not had those the last few nights.
So there's some improvement. Today I was actually pretty clear headed up until 6pm, and now the fog is getting better in the late evening.
I've tried meditation, it doesn't really work for me, unless I'm doing it wrong. However laying down and just relaxing helps. Although often times the anxiety comes on when I'm not in a position to do that. I don't know about the coffee/tea thing, because green tea also has caffeine, I personally just love the taste of coffee and I drink it black. And as an anti-inflammatory for the liver, that's fantastic.
I tend to notice that every time I write that one of my symptoms is either better or gone, it comes back once I press the "post" button...
Main issue currently is that I have an ache in the outer part of my pectoral are, between my nipples and armpits, on both sides. It comes and goes, not constant. Sometimes dull, sometime pinching. Had ultrasound, only diagnosis was slightly enlarged and slightly fatty liver. Had X-ray done at the ER a few months before that, and they couldn't find anything. Had a cardio stress test, they said everything was fine. Blood work is all "perfect". The doctor doesn't know. says could be a nerve issue due to a surgery that I had over 20 years ago... I feel like if this stupid ache would go away, I would be feeling at about 90%, as I'm at around 4 months sober. Had urine test done about a month ago, they haven't called, so I'm assuming things are alright. My dreams are still very weird, I wake up in the mornings and just can't believe the crap I dreamt.
On a positive note, I haven't had those stupid brain zaps that I normally get right before I drift off to sleep. Also, I used to have my arms get numb which would wake me up. The zaps and numbness I feel had some sort of relationship, but I have not had those the last few nights.
So there's some improvement. Today I was actually pretty clear headed up until 6pm, and now the fog is getting better in the late evening.
I've tried meditation, it doesn't really work for me, unless I'm doing it wrong. However laying down and just relaxing helps. Although often times the anxiety comes on when I'm not in a position to do that. I don't know about the coffee/tea thing, because green tea also has caffeine, I personally just love the taste of coffee and I drink it black. And as an anti-inflammatory for the liver, that's fantastic.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 81
Hi Dry Cucumber,
I totally get the muscle twitching and "internal vibrations" as they call it over on Benzo Buddies. GABA is famous for smoothing muscles and, when your receptors are damaged, they can often feel overly tense. I remember this feeling like something was pulling along my spine and up the sides of my neck. It always was accompanied by a type of creeping anger where I felt like a tightly coiled spring.
As for the breathing thing, yes, that's called "air hunger". It feels like the air isn't doing its job or that the lungs won't expand to their proper limit. Your brain is tricked and thinking that your not getting enough.
What you might try is to actually take a mental note of how shallow your breath actually is at rest. You'll notice that you rarely breathe deeply, and your breathing in a relaxed state is incredibly shallow compared to your max capacity. Try to remind yourself of this when you're feeling the air hunger.
What I might suggest is tracking your progress. I have an app on my phone that I use. I type in my sleep, medication, mood in the morning and night, symptoms, and give my mornings and nights a score out of 10. You can see if you're improving or not in those times where you feel hopeless. It's done a lot for me to see that I'm not where I was six months ago, or even three.
Anyway, I'm going to try to be more active on here. I wasn't receiving notifications for some reason.
Best of luck to you!
I totally get the muscle twitching and "internal vibrations" as they call it over on Benzo Buddies. GABA is famous for smoothing muscles and, when your receptors are damaged, they can often feel overly tense. I remember this feeling like something was pulling along my spine and up the sides of my neck. It always was accompanied by a type of creeping anger where I felt like a tightly coiled spring.
As for the breathing thing, yes, that's called "air hunger". It feels like the air isn't doing its job or that the lungs won't expand to their proper limit. Your brain is tricked and thinking that your not getting enough.
What you might try is to actually take a mental note of how shallow your breath actually is at rest. You'll notice that you rarely breathe deeply, and your breathing in a relaxed state is incredibly shallow compared to your max capacity. Try to remind yourself of this when you're feeling the air hunger.
What I might suggest is tracking your progress. I have an app on my phone that I use. I type in my sleep, medication, mood in the morning and night, symptoms, and give my mornings and nights a score out of 10. You can see if you're improving or not in those times where you feel hopeless. It's done a lot for me to see that I'm not where I was six months ago, or even three.
Anyway, I'm going to try to be more active on here. I wasn't receiving notifications for some reason.
Best of luck to you!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 81
Hey Ant, you've really taken up the mantle in here. It's great to see someone who's as hungry for information on the subject and does his research. For some of us, we become experts in this field to try to make sense of this hall of mirrors we go through. I hope it's not condescending to say you're doing admirably.
I'm at 18 months out, down to 2.48mg of valium and still tapering (for those not in the know, that's about 1/2 of the smallest dose of Xanax per day). I had a recent bout of PAWS that was different than most in that it was mimicking mental illness more than most episodes do. I've found they have a "type". One will be a nausea bout. The next might be aches and pains. The next might be all about poor sleep. But they're specific and...pointed. The bastards.
Anyway, I went through about three weeks. It wasn't acute all the time, but the baseline was pretty uncomfortable. But then it broke, and I had a month of decent life. It was such a breath of fresh air that I actually let go of the fear that I knew it would come back and make me miserable again. I had these sublime little pockets where I forgot that I've been hobbled so much. It was the best I'd felt since quitting again. I'm back to feeling meh, but it's less acute. A year ago, I could barely form a cogent thought, but now I'm back to rants and research and reading. Not all the way back, but I can see a future where I'll be my old eccentric self.
To anybody else who wrote about anxiety while dealing with people or new situations, this is totally normal. It's called "psychosocial dysfunction". (Words are fun!) Anyway, I have this and it has lingered more than my previous withdrawal. I sometimes shy away from discussion because I'm worried that, if I receive the appropriate prompt, I will speak every thought I've ever had, which would be no good for anybody. Years ago, I remember interacting with people so smoothly and deftly. I daresay I was even a little charming. Now in conversations, I tend to fantasize about hurling a smoke bomb at the floor and absconding behind the cloud like a ninja. And I'm in the absolutely wrong profession for this: I'm a teacher. A daily public speaker. Ugh.
Anyway, we're all taking lumps, learning lessons, and planting flags. We might not all get out of this at the same time, but we'll all make it out together.
Matt
I'm at 18 months out, down to 2.48mg of valium and still tapering (for those not in the know, that's about 1/2 of the smallest dose of Xanax per day). I had a recent bout of PAWS that was different than most in that it was mimicking mental illness more than most episodes do. I've found they have a "type". One will be a nausea bout. The next might be aches and pains. The next might be all about poor sleep. But they're specific and...pointed. The bastards.
Anyway, I went through about three weeks. It wasn't acute all the time, but the baseline was pretty uncomfortable. But then it broke, and I had a month of decent life. It was such a breath of fresh air that I actually let go of the fear that I knew it would come back and make me miserable again. I had these sublime little pockets where I forgot that I've been hobbled so much. It was the best I'd felt since quitting again. I'm back to feeling meh, but it's less acute. A year ago, I could barely form a cogent thought, but now I'm back to rants and research and reading. Not all the way back, but I can see a future where I'll be my old eccentric self.
To anybody else who wrote about anxiety while dealing with people or new situations, this is totally normal. It's called "psychosocial dysfunction". (Words are fun!) Anyway, I have this and it has lingered more than my previous withdrawal. I sometimes shy away from discussion because I'm worried that, if I receive the appropriate prompt, I will speak every thought I've ever had, which would be no good for anybody. Years ago, I remember interacting with people so smoothly and deftly. I daresay I was even a little charming. Now in conversations, I tend to fantasize about hurling a smoke bomb at the floor and absconding behind the cloud like a ninja. And I'm in the absolutely wrong profession for this: I'm a teacher. A daily public speaker. Ugh.
Anyway, we're all taking lumps, learning lessons, and planting flags. We might not all get out of this at the same time, but we'll all make it out together.
Matt
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 213
Thanks Matt, that is very kind words and is much appreciated. I just try and help where I can. It gives me some purpose whilst my life is sort of on hold.
I understand what everyone in this forum is going through. You have to experience it to really understand the despair you feel. I think there is something very beautiful about people from different corners of the globe coming together on this forum and on SR in general to share their experiences to help each other out.
This is by the far the best PAWS thread on the internet. I am sure it will be a source of hope for future addicts in recovery for years to come. We may not be around posting anymore (or not as often) as we are too busy living life again but we have left bread crumbs of hope behind us. I am looking forward to sharing my success story on here one day when I am finally out of the woods and I look forward to hearing yours, dry cucumber, Daves and all recent posters who are still going through healing.
I understand what everyone in this forum is going through. You have to experience it to really understand the despair you feel. I think there is something very beautiful about people from different corners of the globe coming together on this forum and on SR in general to share their experiences to help each other out.
This is by the far the best PAWS thread on the internet. I am sure it will be a source of hope for future addicts in recovery for years to come. We may not be around posting anymore (or not as often) as we are too busy living life again but we have left bread crumbs of hope behind us. I am looking forward to sharing my success story on here one day when I am finally out of the woods and I look forward to hearing yours, dry cucumber, Daves and all recent posters who are still going through healing.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 18
Yes thank you so much for this thread Matt, it guided me through a time when I truly did think I was going mad. I’m 11 months in now and things are definitely getting slowly better. I return to this thread often to assure myself I am not crazy and I am experiencing PAWS. This thread has been a guiding light and I wish there were more people out there talking about PAWS. I totally relate with the social anxiety also. I used to be a social, slightly charming individual myself. These days just about everything and everybody makes me a bit squeamish. Uncomfortable in my own skin. I’m working on it though. Anyways thank you Matt. Don’t know where I would be had I not found this thread with people going through something similar to me
VinBx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: New York
Posts: 190
This is one amazing thread. Personally for me it keeps me going when I'm having a day of hell. Some days are better than others and Thank God im much better day by day. I will be 13 months in 4 days. I am feeling better but it sure is a slow process. Much slower than I thought. I reminds me of the snail crossing the road. It seems like forever but eventually it will get there. Thank you all for being apart of this thread. Its amazing. Matt God bless you for starting it and keeping this thread running. Its such a breath of hope when paws comes hitting g hard. Wish you all the best in this road to recovery.
Vinny
Vinny
Erica375
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: MA
Posts: 493
I haven't read through this entire thread yet but I think I belong here. Feeling pretty scrambled so I'm not sure I can string together enough coherent sentences at the moment to explain what's going on.
Panic, phobias, fear-triggered asthma attacks, sobbing over everything and nothing... is that PAWS?
Panic, phobias, fear-triggered asthma attacks, sobbing over everything and nothing... is that PAWS?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Erica, are you still going back and forth between drinking and not drinking? Because PAWS is about what happens after the initial first part of sobriety - it's the longer-term stuff. If you're still bouncing back and forth with drinking then it's going to keep getting worse.
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