Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 5
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Onward is right!
And it does take courage, it's not easy to take a hard look at where one is going wrong in life and change. I spent way too many years knowing I was drinking in an unhealthy way and for the wrong reasons but I wasn't ready to change. I didn't believe in myself. I was afraid of what I would be giving up, the escape, the social aspect, the "party" girl image, being able to be irresponsible. But the consequences just kept getting higher and higher. I stopped liking myself and the way I was acting.... My mind was always at war with itself to quit only to find myself drunk again! It was exhausting.
Now I feel excited! There is a whole new adventure for me. And with AVRT my mind is finally, for the first time in YEARS at peace. I'm still riding that wave
I'm not sure what all my plans for the future are. I'm fortunate that my life is stable and blessed despite my being a lush for so long so I don't have a big mess to clean up. I'm sure that I will get to a place where sobriety and peace of mind won't be enough to satisfy me but I'll cross those bridges when I get to them with a clear, focused mind.
And it does take courage, it's not easy to take a hard look at where one is going wrong in life and change. I spent way too many years knowing I was drinking in an unhealthy way and for the wrong reasons but I wasn't ready to change. I didn't believe in myself. I was afraid of what I would be giving up, the escape, the social aspect, the "party" girl image, being able to be irresponsible. But the consequences just kept getting higher and higher. I stopped liking myself and the way I was acting.... My mind was always at war with itself to quit only to find myself drunk again! It was exhausting.
Now I feel excited! There is a whole new adventure for me. And with AVRT my mind is finally, for the first time in YEARS at peace. I'm still riding that wave
I'm not sure what all my plans for the future are. I'm fortunate that my life is stable and blessed despite my being a lush for so long so I don't have a big mess to clean up. I'm sure that I will get to a place where sobriety and peace of mind won't be enough to satisfy me but I'll cross those bridges when I get to them with a clear, focused mind.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by anattaboy 
... and those that quit first try were doing AVRT before it had a name.
When I got a sheepsish grin and way too f'd up remarks about my sex life due to alcohol, I thought, "Are these people serious?" None of that applied to me.
I was told I was lying [we all do] and that if I wanted to make it I had to be honest. Among other weirdness. Alrighty then. Anyway - I got off on a rant - I didn't discover AVRT until almost 3 months sober. I already quit for good. And reading the crash course confirmed it for me.
My statement was, "I will never allow alcohol to affect my life again. And the only way to ensure that is to never drink again." I said that back in December 2013. I changed it to IWNDAAIWNCMM in March. Simple, pure logic.
...holds the key
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,065
Totally get it Brain.
In my experience, I was questioning myself, thinking something must be wrong with ME because I didn't buy into the mainstream recovery philosophy. I mean, all these people seemed to 'get' it!! Hmm.....the weird thing was, that they didn't seem happy and they certainly didn't seem free!! Maybe I just got in with a glum bunch...who knows....but I kept thinking, is THIS really what it's all about? Ummm....no thank you!
And the reason you could quit alcohol, on your own, is that each of us has what it takes inside us to do just that. ( Not sure if I said that right, but y'all get the gist.)
And that brings me to something I want to talk about...a frustration really...but since I know this forum has loads of rules I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about it. Is there a veteran here that I could ask before bringing it to this thread?
In my experience, I was questioning myself, thinking something must be wrong with ME because I didn't buy into the mainstream recovery philosophy. I mean, all these people seemed to 'get' it!! Hmm.....the weird thing was, that they didn't seem happy and they certainly didn't seem free!! Maybe I just got in with a glum bunch...who knows....but I kept thinking, is THIS really what it's all about? Ummm....no thank you!
And the reason you could quit alcohol, on your own, is that each of us has what it takes inside us to do just that. ( Not sure if I said that right, but y'all get the gist.)
And that brings me to something I want to talk about...a frustration really...but since I know this forum has loads of rules I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about it. Is there a veteran here that I could ask before bringing it to this thread?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
Brynn ~
I'd advise that you say what you gotta say. Post it here. FWIW.
I learned many Decades ago to discuss 'Principles - not Personalities'. Stick with that, and keep it non-personal. Not that you wouldn't do that anyway. I've seen Posts removed, and it's because People lose it, and go off on others they don't agree with. That's their Personal Maturity problem.
What I've seen happen repeatedly is this. Someone dares to take on Recovery orthodoxy. Other Folks get their Panties in a wad, and report en masse a Post they don't 'like'. I.e., it doesn't support their World View. I find it rather bizarre that an anonymous Poster somehow 'threatens' them. But, Forums work that way. To keep the peace, the Post then gets locked down. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the Post POV. It appears to me, anyway, to be all about keeping the peace here. No criticism intended. This is simply Forum pragmatism at work. There's a lot of Threads here.
I don't use the 'Ignore' feature. I don't use 'Report'. I Moderate on a few other non-Alcohol Pages, and they're one heckofalot rougher than anything going down here.
You've got some interest tweaked here, so Post away! This is too valuable a Thread to lock down, so start another Thread with your desired Topic, if you like. Alternately, a Mod here can move the Posts as they accumulate if argumentative or thin-skinned types 'parachute in' to here just to start a ruckus. It happens. I just roll with it, and call them out when their motive of turning a legitimate Topic into 'The Jerry Springer Show' becomes transparent.
I don't think that any Veteran here can outguess in advance if this Crowd Dynamic will occur with your Topic.
-----
I'd advise that you say what you gotta say. Post it here. FWIW.
I learned many Decades ago to discuss 'Principles - not Personalities'. Stick with that, and keep it non-personal. Not that you wouldn't do that anyway. I've seen Posts removed, and it's because People lose it, and go off on others they don't agree with. That's their Personal Maturity problem.
What I've seen happen repeatedly is this. Someone dares to take on Recovery orthodoxy. Other Folks get their Panties in a wad, and report en masse a Post they don't 'like'. I.e., it doesn't support their World View. I find it rather bizarre that an anonymous Poster somehow 'threatens' them. But, Forums work that way. To keep the peace, the Post then gets locked down. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the Post POV. It appears to me, anyway, to be all about keeping the peace here. No criticism intended. This is simply Forum pragmatism at work. There's a lot of Threads here.
I don't use the 'Ignore' feature. I don't use 'Report'. I Moderate on a few other non-Alcohol Pages, and they're one heckofalot rougher than anything going down here.
You've got some interest tweaked here, so Post away! This is too valuable a Thread to lock down, so start another Thread with your desired Topic, if you like. Alternately, a Mod here can move the Posts as they accumulate if argumentative or thin-skinned types 'parachute in' to here just to start a ruckus. It happens. I just roll with it, and call them out when their motive of turning a legitimate Topic into 'The Jerry Springer Show' becomes transparent.
I don't think that any Veteran here can outguess in advance if this Crowd Dynamic will occur with your Topic.
-----
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Brynn…I loved your comment about "deliberate and confident living". Sobriety empowers me. For me attaching my sobriety to an external system I felt put me in a precarious position. For I think I felt if I failed at a system, then my sobriety was tainted.
It felt very risky to offer up criticism of the way I was doing things to others who were invested in doing it differently. Unfortunately, early on we are in a vulnerable position and our lack of time sober makes us an easy target for people who have been doing it longer.
I was steered in a direction by my rehab. I was steered in a direction by my therapist. I was steered in a direction by a sober coach that my therapist somewhat forced on me. I felt disengaged from my sobriety…as if it was up for public scrutiny and susceptible to being sculpted to fit other's concept of what sobriety entailed.
Around 6 months I took a stand. I let my therapist go, lost the sober coach, and began to realize that the dreadful predictions that I would fail if I didn't do it a specific way were not applicable to me.
I don't care how other people get sober. It is not my place to judge them, we each arrive at the gates of sobriety with a different suitcase full of complexities. Gender, age, socioeconomic factors, physical issues, personalities….an endless list that undoubtedly means our different needs would indicate we need different solutions.
That is what makes alcoholism and addiction so darn difficult. We manifest similar behaviors but I believe it is because of a very broad range of reasons.
Imagine an ER room. 10 people with broken legs. One fell off a ladder, another a car crash, a ski accident, slipped on ice, injured in the workplace, etc. They all present with the same issue, yet the origins are markedly different. Some knew they were playing with fire, others were simply meandering along and are stunned that their life was turned upside down.
Now these same people are discharged. One is picked up by a limo and ferried home to be waited on by a slew of staff, recovery time is meaningless, there is no pressing issues. Another has to take public transportation, get up four flights of stairs and figure out how to pay the rent as they can't wait tables with a broken leg. The car crash victim is picked up by his mother who has already called his college to see if he can defer this semester. The ski racer knows he has forfeited his place on the ski team…he is not sure if he will be able to make it to the Olympics.
Same issue..but they all got there differently and they will all need to unwind it based on their life stories.
Now plug in a psychological injury like addiction. Way more complicated in how we arrive there, and way more complicated on the fallout and repair.
Nothing is wrong with you, simply nothing. In fact I have followed your progress and I am not surprised you have arrived at a place where you feel resistant to being pressured to do it a particular way. You are pretty kick-a** in my opinion. You realized your beau was an impediment, you moved out. You write beautifully. You are succinct and intelligent and you are chafing at others telling you that there is only one way to do things. You arrived at the same place I did…believe in yourself. This is probably one of the most important things you will ever do…and NO ONE knows you better than you know yourself.
SR has brilliantly shown me the array of ways to get sober. I love it. And I feel that going forward the world of sobriety will continue to expand which will mean more people will find solutions that work for them. SR opens the door for all of us to be able to draw on that which will reinforce our strengths. And there is nothing wrong with questioning and sorting…it is a process, and you are well on your way!
It felt very risky to offer up criticism of the way I was doing things to others who were invested in doing it differently. Unfortunately, early on we are in a vulnerable position and our lack of time sober makes us an easy target for people who have been doing it longer.
I was steered in a direction by my rehab. I was steered in a direction by my therapist. I was steered in a direction by a sober coach that my therapist somewhat forced on me. I felt disengaged from my sobriety…as if it was up for public scrutiny and susceptible to being sculpted to fit other's concept of what sobriety entailed.
Around 6 months I took a stand. I let my therapist go, lost the sober coach, and began to realize that the dreadful predictions that I would fail if I didn't do it a specific way were not applicable to me.
I don't care how other people get sober. It is not my place to judge them, we each arrive at the gates of sobriety with a different suitcase full of complexities. Gender, age, socioeconomic factors, physical issues, personalities….an endless list that undoubtedly means our different needs would indicate we need different solutions.
That is what makes alcoholism and addiction so darn difficult. We manifest similar behaviors but I believe it is because of a very broad range of reasons.
Imagine an ER room. 10 people with broken legs. One fell off a ladder, another a car crash, a ski accident, slipped on ice, injured in the workplace, etc. They all present with the same issue, yet the origins are markedly different. Some knew they were playing with fire, others were simply meandering along and are stunned that their life was turned upside down.
Now these same people are discharged. One is picked up by a limo and ferried home to be waited on by a slew of staff, recovery time is meaningless, there is no pressing issues. Another has to take public transportation, get up four flights of stairs and figure out how to pay the rent as they can't wait tables with a broken leg. The car crash victim is picked up by his mother who has already called his college to see if he can defer this semester. The ski racer knows he has forfeited his place on the ski team…he is not sure if he will be able to make it to the Olympics.
Same issue..but they all got there differently and they will all need to unwind it based on their life stories.
Now plug in a psychological injury like addiction. Way more complicated in how we arrive there, and way more complicated on the fallout and repair.
Nothing is wrong with you, simply nothing. In fact I have followed your progress and I am not surprised you have arrived at a place where you feel resistant to being pressured to do it a particular way. You are pretty kick-a** in my opinion. You realized your beau was an impediment, you moved out. You write beautifully. You are succinct and intelligent and you are chafing at others telling you that there is only one way to do things. You arrived at the same place I did…believe in yourself. This is probably one of the most important things you will ever do…and NO ONE knows you better than you know yourself.
SR has brilliantly shown me the array of ways to get sober. I love it. And I feel that going forward the world of sobriety will continue to expand which will mean more people will find solutions that work for them. SR opens the door for all of us to be able to draw on that which will reinforce our strengths. And there is nothing wrong with questioning and sorting…it is a process, and you are well on your way!
...holds the key
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,065
So, I've decided to let the above mentioned frustration go, at least for now.
However...I've got another little frustration that I would love input on, but before I get into that I just want to say thanks MM and Jaynie and everyone else in this forum for your little nuggets of wisdom!
And Jaynie, yeah, I quickly realized there was nothing wrong with me just because I don't drink koolaid!
Ok, so I'm getting really frustrated with myself because my thinking seems to becoming really black and white. And in some ways that's amazing because it keeps me sober! I DO NOT DRINK! Pretty straightforward...no gray whatsoever.
But in relating to other people struggling with addiction, I'm finding it hard to balance the straightforwardness of 'not drinking to stay sober' with all the other 'stuff' your supposed to say to be supportive! I'm a helper by nature and I love people and empathize greatly with all sorts of folks, but I'm finding it hard not to say to people who go on and on about how they just don't know how to stop drinking 'STOP POURING BOOZE DOWN YOUR THROAT!'
And that's totally not me...or at least didn't think it was! Blah!
Have y'all experienced this at all?
Not even sure I'm explaining this correctly and hope it's not off topic. To me AVRT is very black and white, it's what makes it so darn simple.
However...I've got another little frustration that I would love input on, but before I get into that I just want to say thanks MM and Jaynie and everyone else in this forum for your little nuggets of wisdom!
And Jaynie, yeah, I quickly realized there was nothing wrong with me just because I don't drink koolaid!
Ok, so I'm getting really frustrated with myself because my thinking seems to becoming really black and white. And in some ways that's amazing because it keeps me sober! I DO NOT DRINK! Pretty straightforward...no gray whatsoever.
But in relating to other people struggling with addiction, I'm finding it hard to balance the straightforwardness of 'not drinking to stay sober' with all the other 'stuff' your supposed to say to be supportive! I'm a helper by nature and I love people and empathize greatly with all sorts of folks, but I'm finding it hard not to say to people who go on and on about how they just don't know how to stop drinking 'STOP POURING BOOZE DOWN YOUR THROAT!'
And that's totally not me...or at least didn't think it was! Blah!
Have y'all experienced this at all?
Not even sure I'm explaining this correctly and hope it's not off topic. To me AVRT is very black and white, it's what makes it so darn simple.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
I know what you mean brynn. I think some folks get stuck in a negative cycle and feel like something outside of them needs to happen for the magic sobriety switch to get turned on. They don't realize the simplicity of just not drinking. Maybe one day they will get there too.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Boston, Mass
Posts: 1,004
Here! Here!
I've had that same thought. My beast loves the idea of relapsing being a part of the "healing" process, though. Following certain trains of thought, I could go have a fantastic binge and chalk it up to outside forces that I have no control over. And I have!
AVRT is a game changer for me, but until I actually sat down and read RR I wasn't sure. Maybe a lot of people are like I was, just taking tiny little chunks of information out of context without taking the time to really explore it.
Maybe some just like the "we're all in this together" camaraderie of other recovery methods. Feeling a part of something and belonging is a pretty big part of being human.
I've had that same thought. My beast loves the idea of relapsing being a part of the "healing" process, though. Following certain trains of thought, I could go have a fantastic binge and chalk it up to outside forces that I have no control over. And I have!
AVRT is a game changer for me, but until I actually sat down and read RR I wasn't sure. Maybe a lot of people are like I was, just taking tiny little chunks of information out of context without taking the time to really explore it.
Maybe some just like the "we're all in this together" camaraderie of other recovery methods. Feeling a part of something and belonging is a pretty big part of being human.
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
Brynn, my post from a couple days ago was exactly my attempt to do this (same one you asked about). It is truly difficult because I was held back from sobriety because of all that other stuff. Sometimes I get pissed off when wondering what might have happened if back in my early 20s, instead of what happened, people had lead me toward empowerment and helped me develop a sense of responsibility and self-determination.
I try to put my own experience out there without attacking any other way, even if I am directly contradicts most the other posts.
I try to put my own experience out there without attacking any other way, even if I am directly contradicts most the other posts.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
SDH73 I have too!! Many, many times. I had a 1001 excuses for why I couldn't get sober. But I know one thing, this is going to be the last time.
This might sound harsh but meetings to me felt like one big circle jerk. They made me feel worse. I would leave and think wow I really need a drink!
This might sound harsh but meetings to me felt like one big circle jerk. They made me feel worse. I would leave and think wow I really need a drink!
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Sometimes I think that people need the Higher Power deal or magic switch turned on because to realize or admit that "just not drinking" is the thing that must be done, bottom line, is to somehow insult or humiliate themselves - if they could have "just not drunk" years prior then they would've done it. And since they didn't do it, well... means they must not have been able to, cause surely they would have... So, if they do stop drinking, surely something outside themselves must be allowing for it
And then suddenly... the spiritual awakening moment Oh, they no longer "want" to drink... because of Higher Power, of course.
And then suddenly... the spiritual awakening moment
Oh, they no longer "want" to drink... because of Higher Power, of course.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Boston, Mass
Posts: 1,004
I wasn't really ready to take an honest stab at sobriety until recently so I have no practical experience with other methods.
That said, I've long been aware of "alcoholism is a disease" "admit we are powerless" "12 steps" (though I only know what a couple of them are) "keep coming back" and lots of other stuff like that. I was aware of it without ever having sought out awareness of it.
So why was I completely unaware of AVRT? Well, RR has a lot to say about that stuff, but I just thought I'd go ahead and put it out there for everyone to pounce on.
I'm with Jazzfish in believing that this needs to be made a more visible option to those who feel they suffer from an addiction. It does seem that so many get stuck in the revolving door of treatment and just keep going around and around.
That said, I've long been aware of "alcoholism is a disease" "admit we are powerless" "12 steps" (though I only know what a couple of them are) "keep coming back" and lots of other stuff like that. I was aware of it without ever having sought out awareness of it.
So why was I completely unaware of AVRT? Well, RR has a lot to say about that stuff, but I just thought I'd go ahead and put it out there for everyone to pounce on.
I'm with Jazzfish in believing that this needs to be made a more visible option to those who feel they suffer from an addiction. It does seem that so many get stuck in the revolving door of treatment and just keep going around and around.
...holds the key
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,065
Thanks for the replies, y'all!
I just want to make it clear that I don't care what recovery method people use to get sober, that's a personal choice just like Jaynie said earlier.
But it does bring up a side issue. It seems people are reluctant to accept a recovery method that is too 'simple'. And like zen said, people seem to be looking outside themselves for this recovery 'miracle' to happen.
Of course, the 'addiction' industry was built on 'looking outside yourself' methodology...just look at the weight loss industry! It's all about 'programs'. I could go on and on about this but I won't.
Jazz...I absolutely loved that post, as you know! You did an awesome job getting to the heart of what gets us sober! And I so hear you about being held back from sobriety early on. It's heartbreaking actually. I got forced into the mainstream recovery system several years ago (literally had no choice in the matter) and couldn't believe that THAT was the way to get and maintain sobriety! I never heard one person say 'the key to staying sober is to not drink!' Like I said, maybe it was that particular group...they were a glum bunch!
And SD...i thought relapse was part of the process, too! So glad when I realized that was a lie!
I just want to make it clear that I don't care what recovery method people use to get sober, that's a personal choice just like Jaynie said earlier.
But it does bring up a side issue. It seems people are reluctant to accept a recovery method that is too 'simple'. And like zen said, people seem to be looking outside themselves for this recovery 'miracle' to happen.
Of course, the 'addiction' industry was built on 'looking outside yourself' methodology...just look at the weight loss industry! It's all about 'programs'. I could go on and on about this but I won't.
Jazz...I absolutely loved that post, as you know! You did an awesome job getting to the heart of what gets us sober! And I so hear you about being held back from sobriety early on. It's heartbreaking actually. I got forced into the mainstream recovery system several years ago (literally had no choice in the matter) and couldn't believe that THAT was the way to get and maintain sobriety! I never heard one person say 'the key to staying sober is to not drink!' Like I said, maybe it was that particular group...they were a glum bunch!
And SD...i thought relapse was part of the process, too! So glad when I realized that was a lie!
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
Sometimes I think that people need the Higher Power deal or magic switch turned on because to realize or admit that "just not drinking" is the thing that must be done, bottom line, is to somehow insult or humiliate themselves
- if they could have "just not drunk" years prior then they would've done it. And since they didn't do it, well... means they must not have been able to, cause surely they would have... So, if they do stop drinking, surely something outside themselves must be allowing for it
And then suddenly... the spiritual awakening moment Oh, they no longer "want" to drink... because of Higher Power, of course.
And then suddenly... the spiritual awakening moment
Oh, they no longer "want" to drink... because of Higher Power, of course.
And, yes, they no longer "want" to drink... NOT because of a higher power, but... because they have learned that AVRT makes the Big Plan a lot easier by separating themselves from the quadriplegic animal desire that "wants" to drink.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by freshstart57
Originally Posted by zenchaser
Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I feel the same way about quitting drinking:
Yay I don't have to do that anymore!
It's a good thing.
I have to change the narrative in my mind to think about all the things I'm gaining instead of what I'm giving up.
I get to be free now
I feel the same way about quitting drinking:
Yay I don't have to do that anymore!
It's a good thing.
I have to change the narrative in my mind to think about all the things I'm gaining instead of what I'm giving up.
I get to be free now
I like this so much, zenchaser, I decided to punch it up and post it again. This, to me, is the recipe for a permanent and unconditional sobriety.
Well put!
Can you find the Addictive Voice lurking within the above post?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
