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My theory....what do you think? Opinions needed

Old 01-27-2009, 10:14 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I didn't quite take my drinking to the level that some have, and I could drink moderate amounts each day for extended periods of time (although I was still very much a slave to it and it kept my body out of wack). But still, I couldn't always predict when I would tie one and/or decide to drive my car or engage in some other stupid behavior. Plus, I started to blackout much earlier than I used to when I was younger, and that is very scary. My theory is that alcohol effects our decision making process in such a profound way, that once we've started drinking, we're really not the same person we were beforehand. I sometimes miss the buzz and feeling of freedom, but it had gotten to where it was also causing me immediate anxiety, exactly what I was attempting to escape. I saw an empty can of Tilt (my old friend) the other day laying in the gutter and it got me thinkin'... kinda caught me by suprise. And I still think about smokin' weed quite a bit...
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:29 AM
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Thanks everybody for your input. Like I said in the post, I think I will know IF the time ever comes when I will be able to drink socially. It may not come and if not thats fine. Of course I would like to be able to, Id be lying if I said otherwise. I understand that our bodies chemistry has been changed but to me that doesn't mean it will be that way always. Our bodies do heal themselves, especially if you work to rewire your pleasure sensors for other more constructive outlets. Again like I said though, this is all theory, no experience. If anything lately Ive been craving reality. I had been numb for so long that I am sick of it. Thanks again guys for all the responses, shared wisdom is the best.
P.S. I really liked the pickeled joke, made me giggle
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:22 PM
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Interesting thread.....I guess after my occasions of jumping off the proverbial wagon, crawling back on is slow and scary....and the chance of not getting back on that wagon scares me to death.

Not worth it. I am powerful enough to know that....although I have not worked one step and don't intend to.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:49 AM
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I think akaholics have a hard time drinking socially. I'm just a stupid recovered dope addict and I drink socially. I never had a prollem with it. I have a cousin who ain't a dopehead but is an akaholic. He can't drink socially without getting sloppy then going on a days long bender.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:14 AM
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As others have mentioned, and it applies to me also, is that something happens to many/most alcoholics after the first drink that really makes it hard to stop. For me I don't think that will ever go away.

Maybe there are some alcoholics that have gone back to "social drinking" but we don't hear about them here as they would have no need for the SR board. But I would think they are a very small percentage of alcoholics.

There is an organization called "Moderation Management" that tries to help people achieve this "Holy Grail" (to quote Spark42). However the founder of "MM" slid back into her old drinking habits and killed two people while driving drunk. A very tragic story:

Road to recovery - Dateline NBC- msnbc.com

And for myself, if I go to a party and only have coffee or a soft drink rather than a beer, I don't think I'm missing anything even if I did have only one or two.

In a thread a few years ago, someone mentioned that drinking just "one or two" would be too "white-knuckling" to be enjoyable anyways.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
There is an organization called "Moderation Management" that tries to help people achieve this "Holy Grail" (to quote Spark42). However the founder of "MM" slid back into her old drinking habits and killed two people while driving drunk.
Yeah, but Moderation Management clearly states that it is not for alcoholic drinkers. Also, the founder had left MM and was attempting to stay sober in AA when she relapsed and caused those deaths.

Last edited by doorknob; 02-08-2009 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:02 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Well I started this thread quite a long time ago....

and I am certainly in a different space now. Now that I have had some cravings and have not had a drink in 5 months...I am slowly beginning to realize that if I were to have one I would have 10. I know that. I can sense it inside me. I can actually feel that crazy itch for just one more, if I concentrate on it. (Which I dont unless I am checking in)

To deal with my desire to drink at times this is usually what I do. I look deep inside to that itch and check to see if its still there. YUP, still there. I know that with it there is no way I can drink safely...(is there really a safe way to ingest poison anyway?) I figure I may have to have these checking in sessions for the rest of my life......and Im pretty certain that the old itch will live on. This is my way of dealing with not being able to drink for the rest of my life....ugh the thought makes me cringe sometimes but...if I just keep it to right now...I am not drinking then its alot less daunting and overwhelming for me to fathom. So YEAH!!! for another sober day!!!!

This ones for mom.
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:22 PM
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totally! My itch doesn't even pretend its wants one, my itch is for oblivion.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:44 PM
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i remember way back when i was like 18?? i already knew alcohol was an issue for me, i was already a heavy drinker, black outs, ect...and i remember thinking to myself that i had to control my drinking---but not because i was worried about my health, or about the damage it was doing to my life, my family and my future---i was worried and did not want to be one of those people who had to quit for good!!! i can actually remember saying to my friend, i don't ever want to have to quit and not drink again---so YES, the thought of not being able to aver drink again is hard to swallow, but i to make myself take it better, i realize i've drank enough already for a few lifetimes. thanks for the post--i really got a lot from it
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:16 AM
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My father was a drunk for 40 years, at 62 he was told if he didn't quit drinking and smoking he'd be dead in a year (he had acquired severe adult asthma) so he quit both cold turkey/ no program. After about 10 years he was capable of having an occassional beer and no more, he limited himself to only 1 in any given day. I think the fact that he was in his 70s and in not the greatest health permitted him to drink responsibly. Since I quit drinking he hasn't touched a drop of alcohol, even though he lives over a 1000 miles from me he wants to be supportive of me! Personally, I don't want to ever drink again, I remember all too clearly the obnoxious immoral person I became when drinking and I don't like that person.
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Old 06-15-2009, 02:30 PM
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I opened this thread, read the first post, saw the date and was like I wonder what she thinks now. Early on in sobriety I told my therapist pretty much the same thing, like I think I will be one of those people who will be able to have a glass of champagne at weddings in the future. I'll be able to have just one. I just needed a very extended drying out period. It wasn't until much later in sobriety that I remembered telling her that and recognized it for my addict voice still clinging to the hope that I would be able to still drink. I wasn't able to completely accept not drinking then. Now I do, at least I think, I might even secretly entertain that idea sometimes still. But now I know what that addict voice is and what it can trick me in to full on believing.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:18 PM
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It seems to me there is a line that gets crossed. A point in ones harmful substance use that changes one. I know from very early on in my dope use that I wanted nothing to do with moderation or casual use. I was in the full on, bring it all on, blast me into the ionosphere user. So I crossed that line before it was drawn. As determined as I was to get loaded, I now can use that same determination to abstain. I'm guessing the same power but in opposing directions, depending what mindset one chooses to see it from. Abstinence could very well be a powerful choice only if it is exercised.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:58 AM
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I do not believe anyone is powerless, particularly over their own voluntary actions. I also essentially reject the disease model, although I concede that unanswered questions still exist, and that many people believe that I am wrong.

I disagree with your pretense. You assume that since we have power over our actions, addiction is more of a phase than a disease or incurable malfunction.

Thatís false logic. Addiction is not a phase. It is something that people engage in for the purpose of pleasure. I have had sustained periods of time in my life when I allowed myself to drink in extreme moderation. They all end the same. I would find myself really enjoying the effect of alcohol, so I wanted more, and I wanted to drink more frequently.

So, I would find myself sitting there with a glass of wine and say, ďWow. I really feel good, one more glass will not hurt, and Iíll feel even better.Ē After all, I wasnít drinking because I like the taste. There are many beverages which taste better than alcohol, and even if I liked the taste of alcohol more, I wasnít continuing because it tasted so good. It was the effect. The deep pleasure.

Maybe some people return to moderate drinking after having been addicted to alcohol, but I donít know any. There is an organization called Moderation Management. Itís an organization which offers a lifestyle guideline for moderate drinking. The founder of this organization was sentenced to 4 Ĺ years in prison for two counts of vehicular manslaughter. She was apparently driving under the influence with blood alcohol levels which were three times the legal limit.

I would hate to tell anyone not to live freely. If a person believes that they can cultivate a lifestyle which involves infrequent, moderate or social alcohol use, thatís great. Further, there are people who drink alcohol heavily, and it is perfectly within their liberty to do so.

I have two points: First, why are you contemplating drinking again? Could it be that subconsciously you enjoy the effect and want to continue? Second, I believe that you run the risk of becoming a heavy drinker again, and do you want to take that chance?
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:47 AM
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This is day 4 of sobriety for me, so I do not have much wisdom to offer, but I will say this:

Addiction to drugs or alcohol is really basic science. When you drink or take drugs, it triggers the reward centre on your brain to release feel-good chemicals like dopamine and serotonin. We enjoy it so much because it takes almost no effort to feel good.

Everybody's different. I've been an addict my entire life. At one point I was addicted to granny-smith apples. I couldn't go a day without having one. Maybe because of the sugar? Maybe the taste? I can't remember and who would know anyway, I was a kid.

I've also been addicted to computer games. I was in my pre-teen years I think, if I remember correctly. Again, little-to-no-effort. You're just sitting there pressing buttons and having a good time, easy to become hooked.

It's a real problem with society today. There are so many ways to feel good by doing nothing, nobody want's to live life anymore. Nobody has the 'time' or patience to do anything worth doing, it's easier to open a beer, park your arse on the couch, and watch pay-tv all day.

Still, I envy the person or people out there who exist and are able to live a fulfilling, positive life, eating right, exercising regularly etc. and still sit have mates over once a month for poker and scotch. Or to watch the big game with pizza and beer.

I honestly don't think I've met such a person. You're either a user or you're not.
This 'holy grail' we speak of (LOVE the metaphor, and the pickle one) does not exist, in my personal opinion. I'm only on day 4, but I've gained so much knowledge and wisdom in such a short time and it's great.


Vividserenity, I started a thread similar to this one yesterday or the day before, and I'm still pondering whether or not to go all out on the big 12, or not. I have wronged many people, and I want to make amends to them all, but I'm not entirely keen on all 12 steps. I'm going to AA for the first time tonight, just to check it out. I can feel myself pulling this way and that, which way do I go? It'll come to me, one day at a time.



Great thread by the way lot's of interesting posts.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Fubarcdn View Post
I can't answer for anybody else but right now this is where I am at. I hope I can drink sociably again but I am not even considering it right now and won't for at least a year.
If you can after a big time out all the power to you. This is also my hope because I like my beer.
This is what I wrote on this after I was sober 2 weeks and now I am coming up to six months and still feel the same way. I am waiting to see what happens after 1 year.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:53 AM
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With the benefit of two years abstinence and recovery, I can say for sure now I do not like the man I was when I was drinking, or waiting to drink (which was every other moment).

I really do not need alcohol or the other drugs I misused - I am better without them all
D
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:25 AM
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Freepath~

You must have missed my second post there......

it was the reason I decided to dig up this OLD thread....it answers your questions.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
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Vividserenity. People like to casually throw around the terms "always" and "never" in order to exaggerate things. However at 46, I have found that these terms apply to the following statement with absolute certainty:

Alcolholism always gets worse. It never gets better.

And God knows I've tried every conceivable way imaginable to get around that simple fact. Every single attempt ended in disastrous failure with catastrophic consequences. It didn't matter if I was a early stage alcoholic early in my drinking career or late stage chemically dependent alcoholic at the end of my drinking career. It didn't matter how long I quit for either (one time I quit for 6 1/2 years). My drinking would quickly pick up exactly where I left off if not worse. I know this fact is not fair and may seem counter intuitive but I have never even see or heard of a single exception to this rule. Ever. Please let me know if you ever find an example of someone who says "I used to be an Alcoholic, but after I did ' fill in the blank ' I have now been a sucessful normal drinker for 'X' number of years". They don't exist and have never existed. However good luck with your experiment on yourself and your future. Maybe you will be the first one.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:44 PM
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I havent read this whole thread.
But I will say I myself dont think I am powerless over my addiction.
When I am powerless over something is when I have no way of controling anything about it.
Like a car accident or something like that. It was out of my hands.
Unless it was totally my fault or intentional.

Noone ever died from not going to get that second drink or hit. Or even the first.
I chose to do it. I wanted to. For whatever reason it may have been . It was all in my control to do it.
I could have done the opposite. It wouldnt have been as satisfying and more than likely a buzz kill and very uncomfortable. But I could have if I tried hard enough.

I believe that we react to feelings. And thats what drives our actions alot.

We dont act just to act alot of times. Something has motivated us to make a move.
One hit of crack and my body is screaming for more. The first one was awesome. Now I want more. I have awakened the heart racing feelings and anxiousness that comes with it. The only way to stop that anxious uncomfortable feeling is to hit again.
It is a feeling. So I react.
I dont have to. I can just feel anxious and deal with it.
But I choose not to.
I know a big ole confusing mess.
The mind is a very powerful thing.
And if you have a strong enough will. You can do anything IMO.

Now the only question is..How do you get that will?
We all have it.
So thats where my recovery comes in.
How to tap into that iron clad will power.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:36 PM
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^
Excellent post.
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