How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ? - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Go Back   SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information >
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read




Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2019, 01:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 33

How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?


Hello all

I have been reading the original Rational Recovery book, the AVRT stickies, and using AVRT to stay sober.

I have a Big Plan.

I am having trouble grasping at the concept of making a one time permanent decision. Not because I donít want to, but because that seems logically impossible.
I canít make a choice for a year from now, just as I canít go for a job one year from now. I can plan to go for a jog one year from todayís but when that day comes, I have to choose to stick by my plan.

Live is only lived one day at a time.
I am not disparaging AVRT or permanent recovery
Iím asking how to get it...
I want a final, permanent decision

But it doesnít feel like my AV is preventing me from a future choice
It feels like simply the laws of reality/physics

That I can make a Big Plan
But then I have to use AVRT one day at a time

I donít understand the permanence aspect
Itís impossible to guarantee anything in life

Please help!
soberFitness is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to soberFitness For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-04-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 02:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
No Matter What.
 
BillieJean1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,963
How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision?

That's where the part about never changing your mind comes in.

I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind. No matter what.

There's no wiggle room there. I love it because of its simplicity.
__________________
To say it clear, to say it cold
It's over, it ain't going
Any further


Leonard Cohen
BillieJean1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to BillieJean1 For This Useful Post:
August252015 (01-05-2019), DriGuy (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-04-2019), MindfulMan (01-12-2019), travelbug (01-06-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 05:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Dee74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 170,211
Blog Entries: 1
In the same way I can make a commitment today to never rob a bank, I can make a commitment to never drinking again

D
__________________
Dee74 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-04-2019), MindfulMan (01-12-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 05:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
wildflower70's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 764
Seems pretty logical to me, I dislike certain foods and liquids, so I can say I will never consume them...ever. Liver and onions, cows milk, pumpkin pie, iced tea.

I could go on and on.....I don't like it, I'm not having it. I don't like booze...guess what? Yep, not having it!
__________________
WF
wildflower70 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wildflower70 For This Useful Post:
August252015 (01-05-2019), BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-04-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 05:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Guener's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 472
Well, I think the only physics involved is whether or not you bring that drink to your mouth or not.

But I do understand the hesitation about making a promise that you worry that you cannot keep, especially when it comes to others. What happens if I fail that commitment, is it a moral transgression? Do I evaluate myself as a failure or the idea of NEVER doing something again as unreasonable? I have some trouble with wholly black and white standards, but not all, and is this one of those things that is a hard line that I will not cross?

Maybe some day I will be able to assuredly state that I will never drink again. Today I'm sure I'm not going to drink. I have not drinking ever again as my ideal that I strive toward, and it's a pretty simple one (as has been said here) to follow. I just will not drink. Somebody recently wrote that it was an achievement to say now with confidence, "I don't drink" from a place of "I cannot drink". That's where I'm aspiring to be.

So, in that sense it does become a moral choice for the day, for me, as it affirms values that I esteem. Our reality is not just the physical laws that we cannot break, like getting sick after drinking does to me, it is also our perception and our actions that form a basis for living in a way that reality doesn't bite.

I'm rambling a bit, sorry, but I'm still working through a lot myself.
Guener is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Guener For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), BlueAngus (01-05-2019), DriGuy (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-04-2019), travelbug (01-06-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 08:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 5,236
if you were to consider getting married....on that day, do you say well, that decision is good for today, but i cannot promise for a year from now?
itís not a true equivalent, as there is another person involved, but the concept of making a decision for the future is the same.
i get your questioning without it meaning you have a hesitation about what you want and what you plan. and yes, life is one day at a time. and yes, my intention is for lifelong sobriety.
and just to throw another wrench into this, or open another can of wiggly worms: occasionally someone had a big plan, went back to drinking and said they had changed their mind.
and then others will come along and say this shows that the person had not, in fact, made a Big Plan, as it is impossible to drink again once you have made a BP.
round and round we go
fini is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to fini For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), HFA (01-09-2019), travelbug (01-06-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 09:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Free2bme888's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,377
Thinking it
Saying it
Writing it
Visualizing it (situations enjoyed happy without alcohol in the future)
Passage of time (⬆️Sober muscle)

All these help to solidify your stance, imho😊

Glad your posting
__________________
Free


Living Free since 5/28/2018
Free2bme888 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Free2bme888 For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), travelbug (01-06-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 08:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
No Matter What.
 
BillieJean1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,963
I'd also like to point out that it's only the AV that resists the notion of never drinking again. If alcohol is ruining your life the way it was ruining mine, then eliminating it permanently is the most logical and simplistic solution, with all kinds of foreseen and unforeseen benefits. Only the addicted side of you would cling to the hope of drinking again, or fill you with disbelief that a Big Plan is indeed possible.

Every single person who has ever quit drinking had to actually quit drinking by never drinking again.

My BP is so solid that when I read Dee's post (not to pick on Dee) I thought, "I might get desperate enough to rob a bank. I mean hey you never know? But nothing would make me desperate enough to drink."

The AV loves to use the future against us. You might be safe now, but you won't always be. I'll get you later! IT tries to grind you down and undermine your confidence that way, but making sure that the drinking is never really over. The reality is that we are always experiencing our lives in the present moment so all we can deal with is today. Obviously no one has a crystal ball so the future is a mystery, all I know is that my future plan is to never drink again. No matter what. Situation by situation, moment by moment, day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year, my plan is permanently to never drink again.
__________________
To say it clear, to say it cold
It's over, it ain't going
Any further


Leonard Cohen
BillieJean1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to BillieJean1 For This Useful Post:
biminiblue (01-06-2019), BlueAngus (01-05-2019), Dee74 (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-05-2019), freshstart57 (01-15-2019), Guener (01-05-2019), Hemispheres (01-14-2019), MindfulMan (01-12-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 08:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
biminiblue's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 16,405
Life is a Great Mystery and there are many contradictions.

I figure if I just keep doing the next right thing I won't ever pick up a drink again. Nor rob a bank. Nor kick a puppy. Nor sleep with my friend's husband.
__________________
The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea.
~ Isak Dinesen
biminiblue is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to biminiblue For This Useful Post:
BillieJean1 (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-05-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 09:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guener View Post
Well, I think the only physics involved is whether or not you bring that drink to your mouth or not.

But I do understand the hesitation about making a promise that you worry that you cannot keep, especially when it comes to others. What happens if I fail that commitment, is it a moral transgression? Do I evaluate myself as a failure or the idea of NEVER doing something again as unreasonable? I have some trouble with wholly black and white standards, but not all, and is this one of those things that is a hard line that I will not cross?

Maybe some day I will be able to assuredly state that I will never drink again. Today I'm sure I'm not going to drink. I have not drinking ever again as my ideal that I strive toward, and it's a pretty simple one (as has been said here) to follow. I just will not drink.
Hear Hear!

I will never drink again is my plan. I also have a high degree of confidence that this will eventually be proven as fact. If that proves not to be true, so what? I doesn't mean that I can't pick myself up and start over again. It doesn't mean I have broken a law, committed an act of immorality, or have been unethical. I would just have been wrong. Is someone going to sue me or point their finger at me and laugh? I would have been mistaken. There was no flaw in my plan. It's still a good plan.

I refuse to say I might someday drink again. I don't want that option as part of the plan. I don't want that to be a self fulfilling prophecy. I don't want to leave that door open. I'd rather be wrong and take the lumps and the responsibility for my mistake. Granted it would be a bad mistake, even a horrible mistake.

I suppose we make an issue about confusing a "plan" with an "ultimate truth," but that's not an issue for me. I'm sticking with the plan.
DriGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DriGuy For This Useful Post:
BlueAngus (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-05-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 09:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriGuy View Post
we make an issue about confusing a "plan" with an "ultimate truth," but that's not an issue for me. I'm sticking with the plan.
Boom.

Thanks.
BlueAngus is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlueAngus For This Useful Post:
DriGuy (01-05-2019), Free2bme888 (01-05-2019)
Old 01-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 5,236
hey soberFitness,
a little puzzling when you ask for help and then donít show up again...you out there?
fini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2019, 07:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 33
Thank you for the answers everyone

This helps a lot to hear everyoneís thoughts on how they mentally frame this
Still, for me, I will have to keep trying to figure out how to confidently believe that a decision is permanent
I think that feeling will get stronger as I continue to successfully use AVRT and abstain
Just passed 40 days!
soberFitness is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to soberFitness For This Useful Post:
dwtbd (01-13-2019)
Old 01-13-2019, 06:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
quat
 

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,338
Sometimes you have go a little Mr. Miyagi , " wax on , wax off , paint the fence, both sides danielson?" " this doesnt feel like karate"

A Big Plan in AVRT is "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind" , in Addictive Voice Recognition Technique we scan our thoughts for those of future drinking and doubt in our ability to abstain.And then recognize those thoughts as coming from an alien ego , assign them to It and ignore and refuse to act on them, yeah ?

The idea that a BP is semi or quasi permanent is pure AV. Using AVRT we are able to identify and separate from it .

Is the question of permanence being attainable the crux, or the idea of permanent abstinence ? and who or what is uncomfortable with which ?
dwtbd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dwtbd For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (01-15-2019), Kaily (01-13-2019)
Old 01-14-2019, 02:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
Is the question of permanence being attainable the crux, or the idea of permanent abstinence ? and who or what is uncomfortable with which ?
This is a great point
Because for me
Itís easier to separate out AV when it comes to desire to drink
I can clearly feel I want Abstinence and any feeling against is easily recognized as not me

The attainability of permanence is what is harder to refute
soberFitness is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to soberFitness For This Useful Post:
Dee74 (01-14-2019)
Old 01-14-2019, 08:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 5,236
ah; i misunderstood.
i had understood you to be saying that what is problematic for you is the concept of a decision that is permanent.
fini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:36 AM.