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How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?

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How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?

Old 10-11-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Exactly so, as I intimated above, mine was overridden by me. No point in making another “Big Plan” ...
Tatsy,

Exactly NOT so. A Big Plan pledge of permanent abstinence, by definition, cannot be cancelled or overridden. Your plan was one you could cancel/override and you did just that. So, you still have every capacity to make real Big Plan which, by simple logic, can only be made once.

...because the Beast and its side-kick the AV, would bounce all over my brain. Therefore, I drew a ‘line’ instead. As I said, semantics, but it helps me.
Again, in Addictive Voice Recognition terms, I know YOU are in there somewhere. YOU know that the language and semantics of self-talk and emotional recognition and reflection make up the critical field of, not action, but inaction in which Addictive Voice Recognition Technique takes place. AVRT expends zero extra calories, zero extra cents, zero outside support, zero physical movement, and draws a line directly to the simple binary choice of make a Big Plan or set the practice of AVRT aside until that plan is made.

Yes, AVRT can ALL be done by remaining motionless and thinking about one’s own thinking and feeling using particularly articulated dissociative semantics. It can relatively quickly end up taking only a minute or two per year as we recognize and dismiss any and all types of opportunities to swallow more alcohol.

Yes, people usually are not aware someone they know has made the pledge “I will never drink again.” because that pledge is about NOT doing a very precise and particular action that has absolutely nothing to do with the typical requirements of daily life.

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Old 10-12-2019, 04:57 AM
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GT, I appreciate the time you’ve taken to offer me guidance, as I appreciated your posts in Secular Connections in 2016, when I learnt how to apply AVRT., and when I made my Big Plan, which I overrode years later.

Unless you’ve been in that position, you wouldn’t understand my current stance: that a new BP (or real BP as you called it -but how could the original BP not be real at the time I made it?) would simply be AV canon-fodder.

I am resolute in my decision (line in the sand-not a new ‘real’ Big Plan) not to drink, each ‘now’ moment of my life.

RR/AVRT is distilled from the experiences of folks who’ve stopped drinking under their own power. I know this to be true, because three SR members whose posts I’ve found beneficial whilst learning AVRT (Freshstart, MesaMan and Soberlicious) all stopped drinking before encountering RR/AVRT. They realised afterwards, that they’d essentially applied it. I stand to be corrected of course, but my guess is that they didn’t utter the words, I’m making a “Big Plan” today, when they stopped drinking. This is my only point, I am “drawing a line in the sand”, because uttering “Big Plan” would be disingenuous, given that I broke the original one.

Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Tatsy,
AVRT expends zero extra calories, zero extra cents, zero outside support, zero physical movement, and draws a line directly to the simple binary choice of make a Big Plan or set the practice of AVRT aside until that plan is made.
GT
Are you really suggesting I should stop practicing AVRT (and thereby potentially drink ) until I make a Big Plan?
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Old 10-12-2019, 05:35 AM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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I understand Tatsy. It's like when I say I will never remarry because I broke my first marriage vows and got a divorce. Just because I won't take those vows again, doesn't mean I'm not committed to my relationship.

Although, I still think you could make a true BP anytime you want.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:46 AM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Thanks Wholesome, for understanding. But no, I know the workings of my AV too well, if I make another BP, it will be used as a weapon against me. I prefer to start afresh, a line drawn in the sand, or rather, when I visualised it, a line drawn in wet concrete, that became permanent, and couldn’t be washed away.

I do however, remain concerned that GT suggested “simple binary choice of make a Big Plan or set the practice of AVRT aside until that plan is made”. I await clarification of this comment. Notwithstanding GTs advisory choice, (or was it mandatory?) I reserve my right to continue to successfully practice AVRT, without a Big Plan.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:21 AM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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This is the thing, you can't say you are actually practicing AVRT without a BP, because the cornerstone of AVRT is the BP as a back drop for AV recognition. As Algo used to say, "No BP, no AVRT."

The reason I won't remarry is because I want the out so I can change my mind and walk away guilt free. So while saying I understand, doesn't mean I think it's right.

Not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to help you see and break the spell.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:34 AM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by soberFitness View Post
It’s impossible to guarantee anything in life

Please help!
I can't guarantee it but feel pretty confident from my experience, that if I overthink things, I will increase my stress and confusion.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:05 AM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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this discussion between GT and Tatsy seems to me to show this:
you make a BP once and once only. it does not allow for changing one's mind.
if, later, you then change your mind or drink again even without changing your mind, in retrospect you will have to say that it clearly was not a "real" BP you had made. if you had made a "real" one, you would not have had a drink again.
so the BP can only be "assessed" to have been the "real" BP in retrospect, as opposed to the ordinary decisions so many of us make not to ever drink again and later proceed to break that decision.
it all seems so circular to me, so self-referential. not surprised that it is troublesome for those who did drink again to try and fit that in with the original BP which in retrospect they are told was not a BP.
fully admit i find this very confusing.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:22 AM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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Me too, Fini, how could I make another BP, when I made a BP, then after drinking again, I’m told I didn’t make a BP, because it wasn’t a real BP, but when I made the BP it was real to me. Therefore, why make another BP, when I overrode the BP, real or not! Mind confusing, indeed!

I will never make a Big Plan again, and I will never change my mind (because I did when I made the first one, that was real to me at the time).

But! I’ve drawn a line in the wet, now dried concrete, and I won’t step over it and drink again: now by now, second by second.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:32 AM
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GT wrote: “and draws a line directly to the simple binary choice of make a Big Plan or set the practice of AVRT aside until that plan is made.

I feel as though the very thing (AVRT) that helped me to stop drinking, is now turning on me, GT, by your bolded words above. Despite anything you wrote, I am allowed to use AVRT to stop drinking by recognising the AV thoughts, without making another Big Plan. Nobody can prevent me from doing so.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:37 AM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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The Big Plan is not like the Who Farewell Tour.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by msl999 View Post
The Big Plan is not like the Who Farewell Tour.
Hi msl999, I’m sorry, I don’t understand your reference to the Who Farewell Tour and the link to the Big Plan, and would be glad if you’d explain for my benefit 😊
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:13 PM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Big Plan - A transcendening personal commitment to unconditional, permanent abstinence
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by msl999 View Post
Big Plan - A transcendening personal commitment to unconditional, permanent abstinence
Thank you, msl999, but I knew that description when I made my BP. Do you have any experience to offer me, given what I’ve written above?
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:31 PM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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I’m at about 2.5 years myself and the unconditional, permanent part is (and always will be) in play. I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind...easy peasy.

I hope we don’t devolve into the ole “what if someone put a gun to your head and ordered you to drink” stuff. I take my BP very seriously.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by msl999 View Post
I’m at about 2.5 years myself and the unconditional, permanent part is (and always will be) in play. I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind...easy peasy.
Exactly what I thought when I made my Big Plan. And it was easy peasy for two and a half years. Until I changed my mind. Now I’ve changed it back, without requiring another Big Plan, because the first was clearly reversible. AVRT (without the Trade Mark) is sufficient for my new, resumed abstinence. With reference to the OP, I’ll never be able to prove this new abstinence is permanent, until I take my last breath, and neither will anyone.

I hope we don’t devolve into the ole “what if someone put a gun to your head and ordered you to drink” stuff. I take my BP very seriously.
Nope. That’s been done previously. Although it still remains valid. I’d do anything to save a loved one.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:27 PM
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The Big Plan is not reversible.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:47 PM
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My BP was, which is an irrefutable fact.
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
The plan: “I will never drink again and I will never change my mind, but I can cancel this plan anytime I choose.” is very, very common.
This plan is reversible, the Big Plan is not.
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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OK, you’re free to interpret as you wish. But it remains my, irrefutable truth, that I made a Big Plan at that time, and it subsequently transpired to be reversible. Given that this fact is unarguable, I’ll end this interaction, and wish you well. 😊
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Old 10-12-2019, 05:57 PM
  # 80 (permalink)  
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Welcome to SR msl999

D
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