Go Back  SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Secular Recovery > Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery
Reload this Page >

How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?

Blogs


Notices

How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?

Old 04-04-2019, 01:11 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
Member
 
DriGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by fini View Post
this is the only scenario that concerns me. losing my mind.
Bad things do happen. Of course you would be excused in such a case, and you will have more problems than just accidentally drinking.
DriGuy is offline  
Old 04-04-2019, 07:11 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
Member
 
fini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,150
oh yeah, for sure more problems than accidentally drinking.

but it does widen out that concept of “self” who decides never to change their mind.
it was not accidental when my mom drank that beer. she was deliberate.
my concern is that i might literally forget that i don’t drink. forget who i am.
but this is likely not the thread for “going there”
fini is offline  
Old 04-04-2019, 08:00 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
quat
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,701
“..you go to war with the army you have”
D.Rumsfeld

But yeah probably not this thread
dwtbd is offline  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:30 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
Never Again
 
TheHandsomeLion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Wholesome View Post
How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision?

That's where the part about never changing your mind comes in.

I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind. No matter what.

There's no wiggle room there. I love it because of its simplicity.

It’s beautiful in its simplicity isn’t it?
TheHandsomeLion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TheHandsomeLion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-10-2019, 11:00 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
I changed my mind after two and a half years. Rapidly disappeared down the drinking rabbit hole. Then, with the support of folks on SR, and relearning addiction and its effects on the brain; I separated from the grasp of a part of my brain. I regained traction and proceeded to ignore that part of my brain, that had learnt the lie that a drink was the solution for any problem. Because it’s wrong, and believing it, will kill me.
Fusion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-10-2019, 01:34 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I changed my mind after two and a half years. Rapidly disappeared down the drinking rabbit hole. Then, with the support of folks on SR, and relearning addiction and its effects on the brain; I separated from the grasp of a part of my brain. I regained traction and proceeded to ignore that part of my brain, that had learnt the lie that a drink was the solution for any problem. Because it’s wrong, and believing it, will kill me.
Hi Tatsy,
Have you made that once-in-a-lifetime Big Plan for alcohol?
GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 01:58 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
Hi GT,
No, I don’t intend to make another Big Plan. There’s too much AV noise around the idea. The AV constantly ridiculed me for breaking the original BP. I

I have, however, regained my non-drinker status, together with my ability to filter thoughts, recognise AV chatter quickly and dismiss.
Fusion is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Callas (10-11-2019), Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 05:52 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Hi GT,
No, I don’t intend to make another Big Plan. There’s too much AV noise around the idea. The AV constantly ridiculed me for breaking the original BP. I

I have, however, regained my non-drinker status, together with my ability to filter thoughts, recognise AV chatter quickly and dismiss.
Hi Tatsy,

From an Addictive Voice Recognition Technique perspective, I know YOU are “in there” somewhere and perfectly capable of using the Technique of Recognizing that all of what you posted is Addictive Voice. By definition, any thoughts and feeling opposed to the Big Plan are your Beast’s Addictive Voice.

“another Big Plan” for alcohol? Just think when you took that first drink last year while claiming to have at the same time pledged “I will never drink again!”

See? And because adults cannot lie to themselves about something as IN YOUR FACE obvious as getting and swallowing alcohol, how could you possibly have actually had a Big Plan? Drinking alcohol is nothing like the habbits of gnashing teeth, or twirling hair. It’s much more like a premeditated seduction. In fact it IS a premeditated self seduction. So, any one person can only make a Big Plan for alcohol ONCE, basic logic.

That “too much noise around the idea” of a Big Plan is actually the whole purpose of the IDEA of a Big Plan. Expose the Addictive Voice. It’s “too much” for your AV, not you. Why not force out the harmless chatter of that quadriplegic tag-alonger with its only weakness: never say never? There’s no harm to you, but the ultimate exposure of IT. Actually MAKING the Big Plan, in my experience, also causes a lotta noise, but then that new brain circuitry kicks in. NEVER will keep popping the AV thought bubble. The lack of never will feed the AV thought bubble.

So, again from an AVRT perspective, I believe not recognizing your AV is risky, especially if you profess to be using AVRT. And I also believe lacking that recognition DOES require faith in other people and circumstances around you that you will need to keep working on so that you will not end up deciding to drink more alcohol for that oh-so-wonderful deep pleasure all of us PhDs (Phormer Drunks) know.

Using AVRT as described in Jack Trimpey’s book “A revolutionary alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous: Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction” (which is now a quarter century old) requires NO faith. The New Cure is simply an unambiguous Users’ Manual, like one that might come with a piece of machinery. As I see it, there are three reasons it has as many pages as it does. 1 - the Addictive Voice has a lotta lotta support within our society at large which the book calls out and which keeps the very simple machinery of permanent abstinence broken. 2 - AVRT is based on a simple structural model of addiction. 3 - AVRT and the Big Plan are grounded upon common sense, personal liberty, and ethical morality.

GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Fusion (10-11-2019), Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 06:40 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
GT, I fully understand. It remains that I CAN now fully recognise the AV without making a Big Plan. As I understand AVRT, the BP is constructed to provide a backdrop which will highlight any thought, image or feeling which suggests taking a drink.

Given I achieved two and a half years sober using AVRT successfully (with a Big Plan) to make another Big Plan, will only serve to add fuel to the AV.

I decided to cancel my Big Plan. and ignore the AV due to unrelenting thoughts (not alcohol related, but caused by tumultuous events). I drank because I wanted to switch off those thoughts, feelings, images (not alcohol related). It was a choice between hit myself on the head with a hammer, or similar, to render myself unconscious, or commit suicide, or drink: I chose the latter. What I failed to realise, is, once I started drinking, I wouldn’t be able to stop. I stopped again by seeking and accepting the support of the good folks on SR. Acceptance of that support does not imply that I need it ad infinitum.

GT, I can assure you that there was no ‘deep pleasure’ whatsoever in drinking. I drank to ‘knock myself out’ to stop thinking about past tragedies and future fears and predictions. Prior to my last two and a half years, there was no ‘deep pleasure’ I drank every day to stave off horrendous withdrawals. Any ‘deep pleasure’ was many years ago, before I became an all day, every day drinker.

It would’ve been more ethically immoral to me, to commit suicide, than to drink. The circumstances I was in were unprecedented and overwhelming. I’m now a non-drinker, and in time, I’ll take steps to right my little life-ship, with support, where required.
Fusion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 07:25 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
GT, just to add, although I’m not making ‘another’ Big Plan in AVRT terms (for the reason set out above); I have, however, ‘drawn a line in the sand’ or wet concrete, now dried (as I visualise it) that I won’t step back over and drink. Semantics, I know, but it helps me.
Fusion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 08:56 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
GT, I fully understand. It remains that I CAN now fully recognise the AV without making a Big Plan.
Then, using the Technique, YOU (not IT) Recognize that your last four posts here have been all Addictive Voice.

The belief that if alcohol did not exist I would be dead is not new but it is very outdated. It faded from any repute almost two hundred years ago around the same time popular culture recognized that any Phormer Drunk could make a pledge of permanent abstinence and keep it.

The plan: “I will never drink again and I will never change my mind, but I can cancel this plan anytime I choose.” is very, very common.

Fortunately, so is the Big Plan quite common, relative to the fact that someone can only do it once in a lifetime. People who’ve done it just don’t normally talk about it very much.
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 09:44 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Hi GerandTwine! I don't have anything to add to the thread, other than to say thank you for being a master AV spell breaker. No one can cut through AV nonsense like you can. I, and many others, owe you a karmic debt.
Wholesome is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Wholesome For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 09:54 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Fortunately, so is the Big Plan quite common, relative to the fact that someone can only do it once in a lifetime.
Exactly so, as I intimated above, mine was overridden by me. No point in making another “Big Plan” because the Beast and its side-kick the AV, would bounce all over my brain. Therefore, I drew a ‘line’ instead. As I said, semantics, but it helps me.
Fusion is offline  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:24 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
My 2 cents here, for what it's worth, is that you are selling yourself short and undermining yourself, when you choose not to commit to another BP Tatsy. And if there's anyone you should never rip off, it's yourself.

Let the Beast bounce. Better IT than YOU. When you operate from a position of fear because of the past, you've mentally already submitted. It's a head game. It's all mental.
Wholesome is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Wholesome For This Useful Post:
Fusion (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 10:41 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
Wholesome, drinking is the least of my worries at the moment. I know I won’t drink, the AV is powerless over me, once more.

What I’m afraid of and beaten down by, is the voices in my head that prevent me from trying to sort matters out in my life. The voices that say I’m inadequate, or things are so far gone, it’s hopeless, so don’t even try, because I’ll fail, or even, make matters worse!

Fearful voices, all full of fear for the future which is ‘doomed’ (they say) so why even bother trying? I know I won’t drink. This is a different issue. I believe it’s the Ego at play. But, sadly, this voice and its consequent causation of I nactiveness at attempting to sort my life out, is as bad as the AV drinking voice! I used to think they were the same, but I think they’re not.
Fusion is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Tetrax (10-11-2019), Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 12:14 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
Just realised, this is a RR/AVRT sub-forum, so please ignore my previous post #55! I know RR/AVRT doesn’t deal with other issues/voices.
Fusion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 12:17 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Sounds like you need to do some work to build yourself back up again. Things that have helped me are meditation, especially to frequencies, I can't say how beneficial I think sound is. We are so sensitive to sound. Also diet and exercise are huge. I've really linked my emotional well being to my sugar intake, for some reason, sugar gives me a victim mentality and makes me lazy. I do my best to eat a whole food plant based diet, with daily yoga and outdoor walks.

As far as getting your life back on track outside of physical health, start with what you can control. Write lists and organize yourself about how to attack the problems. Use the old AA slogan about accepting what you can't change and being courageous about what you can. Pick one small thing a day, and one big project a week, and gradually over time, you will have chipped away at it all until things are where you want them to be.

I know it can be hard to live in the in-between, where you aren't where you want to be, but you aren't going back to where you were either. You are already a huge winner here! You have made a second come back! Plenty of people don't, and you did. So give yourself some credit.
Wholesome is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Wholesome For This Useful Post:
Fusion (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 12:26 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,636
Wholesome, as always, a massive, heartfelt, thank you 🤗 . I saved your previous frequencies video and shall begin listening to it, whilst meditating.

I have copied and shall put your above outlined Plan into action, immediately.
Fusion is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fusion For This Useful Post:
Wholesome (10-11-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 12:59 PM
  # 59 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
This is one I like, although it's not really a frequency, but I like the shamanic drums. They motivate me and I find them soothing and uplifting.

Wholesome is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Wholesome For This Useful Post:
Fusion (10-12-2019)
Old 10-11-2019, 05:35 PM
  # 60 (permalink)  
Member
 
Tetrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Wholesome, drinking is the least of my worries at the moment. I know I won’t drink, the AV is powerless over me, once more.

What I’m afraid of and beaten down by, is the voices in my head that prevent me from trying to sort matters out in my life. The voices that say I’m inadequate, or things are so far gone, it’s hopeless, so don’t even try, because I’ll fail, or even, make matters worse!

Fearful voices, all full of fear for the future which is ‘doomed’ (they say) so why even bother trying? I know I won’t drink. This is a different issue. I believe it’s the Ego at play. But, sadly, this voice and its consequent causation of I nactiveness at attempting to sort my life out, is as bad as the AV drinking voice! I used to think they were the same, but I think they’re not.
Boy can I relate to all of this. I keep thinking about starting a thread regarding this kind of stuff (probably over in Mental Health) but can't face the potential upkeep right now.
Tetrax is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tetrax For This Useful Post:
Fusion (10-12-2019)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:12 PM.