Michelle37

Good Morning!
One of the kids starts school today...thank GOD! The bus will be coming for her in about an hour. Kurt is still keeping me under lock and key, but yesterday, with the help of my sponser, I learned that I don't have to worry about it. It's exactly how it is supposed to be.
He had to take me to the hospital last night on another issue, and he was so worried about me he wouldn't leave me side the entire time!! (We were there for about four hours!!)
I feel pretty gross today, and had to grab some honesty with my sponser and my hubby yesterday re: communication and self-honesty. Kurt had phoned my doctor and she had told him that she has given me this medication for the whole month...he was not happy. I don't know why I lied...just my own sick thinking, I guess...but of course, the more I got sick and shook, the more he knew anyways.
Today though, even though I feel like a truck has run over my face whilst I slept (and I didn't sleep too well, let me tell you) I am sober. That feels good even when nothing else does.
We did have a break through this morning though...I found the oxy's Kurt got from the GP yesterday to help in tapering me off. I wanted to just take them, and end this pain, but instead, I told my hubby what was going on. (Our GP told him yesterday that it wasn't a good idea to take me off cold turkey, so now we have 10-10mgs and 15-40mgs to taper me down...he gave me 40mg in total yesterday,(down from over 120) and I feel like **** today.) The pills are now locked up with his guns in the shed, and only he has the key for that. Sigh...half measures availed us nothing...we stood at the turning point...
He told me that he's going to likely take more time off of work, like another month or so...until he's sure I'm clean. I wish he'd just let me go into detox and treatment, but he says that he can't live with the thought of me being out of the house for that long. So...here we sit...and I have had to learn to accept that this is what is supposed to be right now.
Kurt's making breakfast now, and he tells me "(I) WiLL EAT". Of course, I'm thinking "What Kurt?? An ORDER?? I can't go through with it!" Because eating appeals to me about as much as jumping naked into a swimming pool full of wolverines...
I'm already down to ninety pounds because of the abuse my body has suffered, and since trying to come off of these pills...well...it's like I have no appetite at all. (This is also part of the reason our GP said that cold turkey was not a good idea. My heart won't take it she doesn't think.)
So, today I'm still trudging my road to happy destiny, and wondering who stole my Big Book, changed all the words to something about my life, and then returned it seemingly unchanged....
I only say this because when I first came into the program, I didn't relate to the BB well really...now it's like all the stories and words were written just for me....

GettingBy

Hey Michelle!

You know, the more posts I read, the more I'm impressed with your strength and willingness to fight this disease. On the subject of the BB, you can search it and read it on-line at http://www.healingresource.org/book.cgi?Display_Welcome

Has your husband sought out any help for his recovery from the addiction? I know that I've found so much peace and love through Al-anon. Learning that I'm powerless over my husband's drinking has given me the ability to SUPPORT him and his battle, rather than try to CONTROL him. You certainly can't tell him what to do, but you can let him know that the support is there and then it's up to him to decide if he wants to use it.

Blessings to you,
Shannon

Gr8ful1

Boy Michelle,
Sounds like your husband really loves you.

Live

I would not take it at all well if I wanted to go into treatment and was told I could not.
Something stinky there!

Michelle37

I hear you loud and clear on the treatment issue, Live, and frankly, it's really, really starting to upset me. I called around yesterday after posting here, and found a treatment center in the city that offers a 7 day program. During the course of their program, you are assigned your own personal addictions counsellor, who works with you on forming a recovery path that is tailored to YOU! I really thought I had found the answer I'd been looking for, and was more or less ready to start packing, right? Kurt about took a fit, basically almost bursting into tears and it was: "I can't believe you'd do that after I took time off of work to help you. Aren't I enough?" Then it was: "I can't live without you." (I'm NOT leaving HIM for God's sake! It's a treatment center!) "I need to see you to know you're okay" and "I won't be able to sleep if you're not here." (Again...A WEEK!!)
Sooooo...wtf do you do?? I love this man very much, and more than that, I'm worried about the fact that if I leave the house with him like this, my babies, who are the most precious things in this world to me, will suffer for it. My little girl is nearly 9 now, and more self-sufficient, but my step son is just two and he requires a LOT of attention. I don't want to hurt my husband either, I whine about him sometimes, and vent...but he's a good man and I love him a lot. I really don't know what to do...
I feel on the one hand that on a selfish level, I want the treatment center to make sure my recovery starts off with a solid foundation. It's really hard to concentrate on my recovery amidst the chaos of this household. (Which is not something I mind most of the time...but right now, with these withdrawals, I need some space I guess...is that bad? I feel bad about it...)
I just wanted to go for a week...I was going to come home right after...maybe I'm being selfish here though. It's my responsibility to run this household, and Kurt's always provided really, really well for this family. Maybe I should be grateful for that, and just try to do the best I can here with the withdrawals. I did, after all, put myself in this position to begin with. Maybe he's right that it's really selfish of me to do that...and I think he is...but I just wanted some space to think, that's all. I wanted to just get out of the house and get some help so I don't relapse again. It is stupid though, because I know that my hubby and kids need me, and I shouldn't want to get away from the people that love me the most. I just wanted a week...guess not, eh?

Michelle.

Live

Listen! Love is wanting wellness for the other person. He is making this about him. He is manipulating you and is most certainly having overly-dependence problems himself. He can use the week off to take care of the kids. I hope that you can assert that you need professional treatment. There is a legal word for being held against your will, it is called something like illegal confinement and it is...illegal. This is not a healthy situation. You are an adult. You have every right to put yourself in treatment and that is a healthy thing to do. Sure sounds like he has some issues of his own that need treatment.
Sorry, I don't mince words.
hugs,
live

Dan

Yep.
Michelle, I see red flags all over the place.
It is misguided to think that I could manage the recovery of my loved one.
Just my gut instinct here, but you, and your physician, is the only relationship from which decisions about your well being should be coming from.
Replace the word selfish with the word realistic.
Having pills locked up in the gun shed does zero in addressing why you became hooked on them in the first place.

Live

I had to go on the back porch and think about this for awhile.
Hope you don't mind but I briefed my hubby on it.
He had an immediate insight that I missed but I think he is right, you are being "guilted".
You are not selfish. He is.
hugs,
live

ps, I think Dan made a typo I think he meant having them locked in the gun shed does NOT get to the real problem.

Live

sorry Dan, I misread. I missed the zero.

soulfairey

I started therapy for co-dependancy yesterday. When I went in for the evaluation I really wanted them to admit me even if it were a few days. I almost messed uo my marriage and lost my family because of my co-dependancy on people who seem to only help me into the wroung direction, I'm really good at cutting off anyone that is good for me. My husband also only wants to help and went to some drastic measures like changing our phone number and stuff. But he lets me make my own decions on treatment. I would think about connecting with a mediator if you feel he won't listen and only blame.

earlybird

Yeah,...hes WAAAY too attached to you. His "Arent I enough?" comment,.....to that, I hope you said "No". Addiction requires treatment. How could someone who has no experience in treating an addict, no experience in alcoholism or drug addict counceling, possibly be "enough" when compared to a building that houses people like us, and experienced medical staff in dealing with addiction????

He has BIGTIME issues. You shouldnt consider him AT ALL in this decision. AA is a selfish program for a reason. You need to get sober and healthy for YOU. YOU AND YOU ONLY. Not until then, can you be of any good to others. Do what YOU feel is right.

graceseeker

((Michelle))

I TOTALLY know what it is like to be trying to come off of oxy, while my hubby keeps them locked up in a safe. Only, I WAS THE ONE who asked him to so it!

I also know that it is HORRIBLE to try to function in a household going through W/D (I have a 10-yr-old who has been very defiant and argumentative lately)-

I know that it doesn't sound right to anyone that he doesn't want you in treatment- and it may not BE right. But if he is willing to take a month off from work to help you through this.... Oh Lord as my witness- I would be sooo grateful if my husband would/could take that kind of time off from work to help me.

I started taking percocet when I got diagnosed with a really awful degenerative muscle disease after I had my son. That was ten years ago. Over the years, I told Hubby about my fears that I was getting addicted- but he didn't seem to care very much... When I asked him to dose me, and hide my meds, he agreed- but would hide them in really easy places, for instace. One time, I had been off the stuff for a month or more& we had a terrible flood in the house that put me under a lot of pressure... When I opened the top drawer of the dresser at the hotel we had to stay in- there they were. It was just too easy. Not his "fault," but I broke under the pressure of the disease (for which I was having to go to the hospital all the time and get long infusions of IVIG and chemo), the fear, the flood- and a feeling of neglect... I went alone to the hospital for IV's, took our son to church, etc because he was going to school and said he needed to study 5-6 hours per day WHILE working full time... Anyway, I said, "look around! your wife is sick, you are out of your home, you've gotten all A's, the job is secure- " I felt the only thing he neglected was his family... He finally agreed to spend less time studying..

At that time, it was only percocet- and not every day. Now, after surgeries, fractured bones from chemo+steroids and the pain of lupus- I am probably taking more than you ever did!

My PC just looked at the X-rays & other stuff and handed me the Rx's over the years... I would tell her too, that I was addicted, but didn't know how to get off. Becasue the fact is that I started taking those pills more for the fear of the illness than the illness... Now, after things have gotten worse- I feel like I need something in the mornings at times- but I don't even know because I've been so over-medicated for years...

Some people are in the position of having a bad disease (like RA or lupus-even cancer), and they do have bouts of real pain- but others like me do not always have a lot of pain- so then they can still get addicted, and need to be monitored some...but that's another story...

If you absolutely can't get to a "center" right now- all is NOT lost! If your husband is making you do the housework and cooking,though,- that is not good- is that part of what he needs you there for? I still have to get meals ready for my family most of the time and other stuff -pretty much no matter what is going on...That was the case so long as my husband was well- and then almost 3 years ago he got cancer- and they had to take out his stomach! So now, I really don't feel like I can go away someplace! Though maybe I should anyway. I aksed the doc, but he said that we sould try doing it with his help first.

I just made my request for doc-supervised tapering yesterday with my PC, though I tapered some before, and we talked about it- it is now official, & I have asked for my hubby's understanding (btw, he works, and has been "cancer-free"-we hope-for these past three years). I's hard, because I now feel like I have become his caretaker-since the cancer- but can't do my job these past three years, unless I'm taking a "comfortable" amount of oxy.. An amount which is staggering. Over the past few days I've been taking about1/6 less, and boy, do I feel it. In about a week I'm supposed to go down again.

I will try to remember to pray for you as I go through this - if you pray, could you pray for me too?

A treatment center would last only so long- and then you would need to go home to him anyway... Do you think that explaining that might help? W/d usually takes several weeks - in some people a lot longer. Sounds like you will really be needing him... Maybe he would be better about it, if he knew it was for the first, medically-senitive part of recovery? On the other hand, if your spouse is really good about following the instructions from your PC, and also has some real common sense- he might actually do you just as much good as a nurse or doc... I've had docs/nurses really foul up about my meds. One of them told me to just "cold turkey" off of valium! I was fortunate that I had already been told that can be deadly... I have also been in hospital settings, where staff decided to go against doc's orders and not give me all the meds I needed (when I was going through chemo). At least your husband knows you- and your case- and it sounds like he truly loves you! I sure pray you get whatever you need...your husband too.

Lots of caring,
GS

stone

The fact that you want to go into treatment shows how serious you are, your husband should be pleased about it-not trying to stop you.

Michelle37

Thank you for post, Grace! It's good to know that I'm not alone in this melee!
It's Day 6 of husband imposed house arrest today, and frankly, it's difficult. Kurt and I went to couple's counselling yesterday afternoon following our backyard disaster. (For those of you who don't know, he came looking for me in our "backyard" (80 acres) yesterday, and left my two year old stepson in the house alone while he did that!! When we got back the house, the baby was crying and I was mortified that he would leave the child home alone like that.
On the up side, the counselling went really well. Kurt told the counsellor how he felt about treatment for me, and I got to speak my piece. Basically, the understanding I've come to is this: Kurt is frightened for me to leave the house for whatever reason, moreover, he is really battling his own ego here. (When I tell him I want to leave for treatment, it's a blow to his ego because he thinks he should be able to get me through this himself....etc.) Now, for the safety and sanity of all concerned in my household, I can't go. That's all there is to that one, Kurt needs to BACK OFF OF ME and let me be. I don't like being mauled...especially when going through withdrawal symptoms. (And he's so bad for that, always hug hug hug kissy kissy, and I'm going AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!) So, yes...we are going to have to sort of muscle through here...no fun this is...but it needs to be done. My GP says that I can expect to feel "off" for the next month or so.....JEEZ!! I don't know bout that...

graceseeker

Dear (((Michelle)))!!!

I gotta run and pick up my hubby- cause he needs to go home for lunch- so I'll be quick on this...

Thanks for your reply! Sorry- I see my post rambled- but I had no time to edit it, cause hubby and son were on their way home...

This is now about day SIX of taking 80mg less of oxy. I am supposed to taper more in about a week... I am CLIMBING THE WALLS.. But in just a few min. I will have to act like nothing is wrong, and make lunch- then take care of my son later...

One thing that really bums my OUT. I went into the kitchen a few min. ago- and discovered that hubby somehow left a HUGE bottle of 80mg. oxys (which I asked him to keep in the safe)- out on the kitchen table!!!!

So far I have not messed up and taken any- but he left me alone with it- that's the kind of thing I wonder about???

Lets pray for each other?

GS

graceseeker

Michelle,

I just picked up hubby for his lunch (he gets to go home for lunch because of the past surgery he had)- and asked him to take away the bottle of oxys that somehow got left on the kitchen table. I made it, by God's grace- this time- and didn't screw up and take them....(thus the name "graceseeker").

About your hubby "mauling " you when your going through W/D.... HHmmmm how about getting a big bowl as a "barf bucket" and tell him that you need it close by- just in case- perhaps that will throw some "cold water" on him. It doesn't really matter if you need it-yet. You DO need your space- how well I know!!

You know, Michelle, maybe we can help each other with some ideas to get through W/D... I don't know how you feel, but I get a strange kind of agitation and a cold feeling in my bones- though some-times I'll break into a sweat, if I have to clean or do laundry or something.... I've found that a heating pad on my legs really helps at night with the cold part. Eating ice helps with the hot part- when I have to work....

This is different for everyone, though... I can't seem to find an answer- besides keep on praying- for patience with my son, who is going through a rough stage right now, where he needs constant attention, is missing his school bus, forgetting to do things- losing homework, starting to back-talk- and on and on... Hubby thought it was something about me- until he took him on an amusement -park ride all alone without me there to keep the peace. Boy was he mad at him- saying he was spoiled- etc... but all this time I've been begging hubby to get involved... ohwell- that's another story. I just dread an argument when he gets home, and I have to tell him to do his homework... ugh!

This CAN be done! There is no other option but death, so when we know that, it will eventually be over. It will just be a nightmare from the past- like I now remember my highschool eating disorder (which, thank God, I haven't had to worry about since-forever). I didn't go to a treatment program for that either, because it didn't even have a name back then- and wasn't called a disease. If I had told anyone back then (the 70's) about the eating disorder- they would have just thought I was nuts... But grace got me out of that one-I am praying I'll get out of this one too- and I will be praying for you and your husband too!!!

gotta go-hubby needs to rest at the computer chair... -sigh-

GS

BigSis

Hi Michelle - Sorry your time here has been so chaotic!

I've generally post in the Naranon forum, have posted in Kurt's threads. I heard you were up here, so I thought I would pop in to get the other side of things.

I am an alcoholic - 20 years dry. I married an alcoholic (also 20 years dry) and we lived sober and crazy for all those 20 years. About 2 years ago, both of our children developed addiction. I didn't understand there was a genetic predispostiion for it, or that all the things we "did" didn't prevent it.... it didn't matter that our kids were raised in a clean and sober home. It didn't matter that they had all the right friends, the right clothes, the right activities, the right schools. It didn't matter. They are both addicts. Son is clean about 6 months now and daughter is clean, maybe 2 months, pregnant and sort of working a recovery program.

Being SO enmeshed in my daugter's life is what got me to recovery. Before then, I got so worried... fearful .... terrified? that I could NOT tolerate the pain of watching her kill herself with drugs. I looked for a way out and decided that suicide sounded like a good answer. At first, I only fantasized about it... then considered the ramifications of it ... then began to plan for it ... and started to say good bye to everything I loved. The day I realized how far down that road I had travelled, I called one of the Alanon phone numbers I received at my first meeting. That woman gave me some practical tips that got me through that crisis. Because of that, I redoubled my efforts to go to and to UNDERSTAND the 12-step program.

But I gotta tell ya - I was flippin' nuts.

My biggest fear was that my daughter would die. I used to tell her - Meth addicts die ugly. Silly me, I thought that would shock her. When I found out later some of the stuff she was going through to get her drugs, I realized all my silly little sayings were just that - silly.

It is hard to give up that perception that I have power over someone, especially my kid. I am guessing Kurt struggles with that, too. I know I was raised to believe it was my job, my sacred DUTY in fact, to keep my kids safe. I know men who believe the same is true about being a husband. Just because that is what we were told doesn't make it true.... but getting to that conclusion took me a LOOONNNNGGGG time.

There is a sticky post in the Naranon forum called "What addicts do". Basicly, it reminds us that addicts lie. Then they lie some more. Then they lie again. They do it to get what they need. That post brings some comfort to those of us who believe addicts lie to us because of something about US..... well let me tell you something. We codies (codependents).... we lie, too. And then we lie some more. And then we lie again. We say "never again", "only this time", "one more and I'll...", and "I swear this is IT!". Yep and we lie for the same reason - because we think it gets us what we need.

So addicts and codies fit together like a hand in a glove. I am forever grateful to the wives of Bill and Dr. Bob for seeing that the same 12-step program that made their husbands "happy, joyous and free" could bring the same level of serenity into OUR lives... whether the addict/alcoholic is sober or not.

I wish you well, Michelle. And I wish Kurt well.

It seems to me that your detox might go better in a hospital setting - if for no other reason than to get Kurt out of YOUR recovery.

Sending prayers and peace....

Live

I pray with all my heart I haven't caused problems, I have pm'ed Ann, asked her advise and asked her to remove my post if she thought it would create any further problems for you or was inappropriate.
I confess. Your husband is on board in Nar-anon and he is not telling the truth and I outed him. This probably wasn't my place to do so.
Please tell me how I can make amends to you.

Live

I see big sis has all ready made the connection too.
So, now I pray for you and all your family and trust HP will take care of the outcome.
hugs and peace,
live

graceseeker

Michelle,

I noticed that BigSis brought up suicide. I just want to clarify that when I said that there was "no other option but death" when an addict looks down the road- like I am doing- all I meant was that should be a good incentive to kick the habit for good! I just hope nobody thought that I meant suicide was a real alternative. I say that because I am still getting over the suicide of a looong -time friend of mine...

I am still so shocked that she did it. She had talked to me about her problems for a loong time- and towards the end she started talking more and more about suicide... But with all the illness in my own family, I could not be her saviour. I knew she had counselors, family, and friends. She started asking me for money- and when I would not give her any more money, she started asking for "gifts -in-kind." I felt bad that I could not help her further, and even extricated myself from her life. One reason I felt I had to do that was that this lady would be around mylittle boy- and now I didn't know what she was going to do. Another reason was that my husband's brother killed himself with a gun, and deep down I knew that if I exposed him to a close-up situation where he had to see that again, it might really hurt him (he has already recently dealt with the after-effects of cancer treatment and the loss of his dad and is depressed). I also had had all I could take emotionally from this person...

One sad thing about suicides- no matter what they did in their lives- all their trying and striving (hubby's brother was even a paramedic).. .. Everything becomes overshadowed by the way they died... Every time people mention my friend- from now onwards- it's basically all they can think about. And she wrote letters that were seemingly meant to get attention from her sisters, or make them feel bad, "you'll be happier with me gone" stuff... Well, everyone sees that as just a "guilt trip"- and they are just going on with their lives. The ultimate "cutting off one's nose to spite their face!"

I know that we can't be sure of what lies ahead, but I've never been attracted to suicide... I have, on the contrary, been trying to stay alive these past 10 years. I figure that we all will die soon enough...

Anyway- there probably was no need to even bring that up...sorry if I said something wrong...

Hang in there! You can have your life back again and so can I... Wouldn't it be great to be off these pills? I envision being FREE... Not needing to call doc every month. Not worried that some INS won't cover it- on and on it goes... Frankly, if I can stand it- I would rather have the pain of my illness than the pain of W/D.

Praying for our freedom-
Freedom for all of us- including BisSis &family !

GS