I will let you down
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Location: Arizona, USA
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Hey Jeff, I'm going to come at this from a different direction. I personally am not offended or shocked by anything you've said. And I'm surprised so many people are, I think maybe because it is so different than what you normally post. But that reversal is standard for me. I am a little different in person even sober than I am on the boards, but get me drunk and I almost completely abandon myself and take on a new more annoying, selfish and outright mean persona. Not always, but more and more frequently as the years went on. So your type of drunk sounds like my type of drunk and the type of drunk I have gravitated to in the AA program. There are things referred to as high-bottom drunks and low-bottom drunks. These are sometimes construed as offensive so I don't use those terms a lot. And to be a low-bottom drunk you don't have to have lost everything, or ended up in prison. You can just be like me, or like you. We completely lose ourselves in the alcohol. Our whole attitude on life changes. Alcohol takes a full hold on us. It becomes us and we become it. A low-bottom drunk, to me, has a much more difficult time digging out of the hole they have dug. The alcohol has gravity and pulls hard when we try to escape it.
You posts sound like run of the mill alcoholic bravado and end-of-times fascinations for the kinds of drunks I bare my soul with.
But what then is to become of Jeff? Well, that is yet to be discovered. Low-bottom drunks get to a point where any path they choose is hard. Staying with the booze is hard for obvious reasons. But straightening up is hard too, because reality is so foreign to us. Actually having to feel real feelings is so hard. We crave the freedom from consciousness, from caring. We will accept the low lows that come with the high highs because the ideas of a normal banal life does not appeal to us. We are also, in a sense, lazy. We don't want to do the work it takes to make right all of the things we make wrong. We also struggle more than most with resentments. We forget that all the people in our life that are acting crazy or not supportive are at least partly that way because we made them that way. We are little tornados spinning through the world wreaking havoc on anything and everything in our vicinity. We do damage. And a lot of the damage we do, we are not present for. We have checked out. So when we return to reality we are surprised at the reactions of others. We didn't mean any harm. But people get hurt. So we feel angry, we feel ashamed and those feelings along with the resentments all drag us back into the bottle. Staying sober takes a lot of work.
BUT, I also think low-bottom drunks can help other low-bottom drunks more than anyone. We talk the same language, we've felt the same way, we've existed in that space. You could do a lot of good in the world if you stay committed to your sobriety.
You posts sound like run of the mill alcoholic bravado and end-of-times fascinations for the kinds of drunks I bare my soul with.
But what then is to become of Jeff? Well, that is yet to be discovered. Low-bottom drunks get to a point where any path they choose is hard. Staying with the booze is hard for obvious reasons. But straightening up is hard too, because reality is so foreign to us. Actually having to feel real feelings is so hard. We crave the freedom from consciousness, from caring. We will accept the low lows that come with the high highs because the ideas of a normal banal life does not appeal to us. We are also, in a sense, lazy. We don't want to do the work it takes to make right all of the things we make wrong. We also struggle more than most with resentments. We forget that all the people in our life that are acting crazy or not supportive are at least partly that way because we made them that way. We are little tornados spinning through the world wreaking havoc on anything and everything in our vicinity. We do damage. And a lot of the damage we do, we are not present for. We have checked out. So when we return to reality we are surprised at the reactions of others. We didn't mean any harm. But people get hurt. So we feel angry, we feel ashamed and those feelings along with the resentments all drag us back into the bottle. Staying sober takes a lot of work.
BUT, I also think low-bottom drunks can help other low-bottom drunks more than anyone. We talk the same language, we've felt the same way, we've existed in that space. You could do a lot of good in the world if you stay committed to your sobriety.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by thomas11 
holy crap, I'm on a bender from hell.
I decided to take the off ramp and became willing to do whatever it took to never get back on that hell-bound highway. It is now only seen through the rear view mirror, except when I revisit hell through hearing of the struggles of other people, which saddens me but also strengthens my resolve to stay sober and to help others achieve sobriety.
I finally made the decision that enough was enough. You can too! I have no regrets about my decision, it was the first good one I had made in years. I can type until my fingers are blue, but until you make the decision that enough is enough, odds are that you won't get to experience what I have since making the decision; and you won't be able to make your own well informed opinion as to whether sobriety is worth for you or not.
My well informed opinion didn't take place overnight and it took more than a few months, because initially it was hard hard work and the carrot was still just beyond my grasp, but I kept at it. All I can say is that after making that decision 17 years ago, it has been the hardest but best thing I have ever done and it just keeps paying rewards, which my drinking never (in total honesty) did.
Hell is staying in my rear view mirror, not my windshield, and the scenery and the ride is way better, because I am no longer the kid in the back seat going "Are we there yet!"
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
Originally Posted by Mizz
I would like to apologize to you for any offense that I might have said, Jeff. Sounding and being are two different things and my apologies to you if I implied that you were something you are not.
I think the lot of us do not come from a place of having a cush world. I dont identify with the money, the houses, the dinners etc. However, I do identify with the pain you are in. Maybe not all of it but pain is pain and to me it is all the same feeling. I think WE all understand the struggle. Once we are in a place that is alcohol induced, it is a nightmare. I've been in the nightmare too many times to count.
I do hope your bender ends soon. I hope you make it back to work. and I hope you come back here fresh faced and ready to tackle your sobriety. I hope your wife is okay through all of this. How is she btw?
Thinking of you this morning and sending all the healing light I have to offer. Godspeed, Thomas!
I think the lot of us do not come from a place of having a cush world. I dont identify with the money, the houses, the dinners etc. However, I do identify with the pain you are in. Maybe not all of it but pain is pain and to me it is all the same feeling. I think WE all understand the struggle. Once we are in a place that is alcohol induced, it is a nightmare. I've been in the nightmare too many times to count.
I do hope your bender ends soon. I hope you make it back to work. and I hope you come back here fresh faced and ready to tackle your sobriety. I hope your wife is okay through all of this. How is she btw?
Thinking of you this morning and sending all the healing light I have to offer. Godspeed, Thomas!
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
Originally Posted by BeABetterMan
Hey Jeff, I'm going to come at this from a different direction. I personally am not offended or shocked by anything you've said. And I'm surprised so many people are, I think maybe because it is so different than what you normally post. But that reversal is standard for me. I am a little different in person even sober than I am on the boards, but get me drunk and I almost completely abandon myself and take on a new more annoying, selfish and outright mean persona. Not always, but more and more frequently as the years went on. So your type of drunk sounds like my type of drunk and the type of drunk I have gravitated to in the AA program. There are things referred to as high-bottom drunks and low-bottom drunks. These are sometimes construed as offensive so I don't use those terms a lot. And to be a low-bottom drunk you don't have to have lost everything, or ended up in prison. You can just be like me, or like you. We completely lose ourselves in the alcohol. Our whole attitude on life changes. Alcohol takes a full hold on us. It becomes us and we become it. A low-bottom drunk, to me, has a much more difficult time digging out of the hole they have dug. The alcohol has gravity and pulls hard when we try to escape it.
You posts sound like run of the mill alcoholic bravado and end-of-times fascinations for the kinds of drunks I bare my soul with.
But what then is to become of Jeff? Well, that is yet to be discovered. Low-bottom drunks get to a point where any path they choose is hard. Staying with the booze is hard for obvious reasons. But straightening up is hard too, because reality is so foreign to us. Actually having to feel real feelings is so hard. We crave the freedom from consciousness, from caring. We will accept the low lows that come with the high highs because the ideas of a normal banal life does not appeal to us. We are also, in a sense, lazy. We don't want to do the work it takes to make right all of the things we make wrong. We also struggle more than most with resentments. We forget that all the people in our life that are acting crazy or not supportive are at least partly that way because we made them that way. We are little tornados spinning through the world wreaking havoc on anything and everything in our vicinity. We do damage. And a lot of the damage we do, we are not present for. We have checked out. So when we return to reality we are surprised at the reactions of others. We didn't mean any harm. But people get hurt. So we feel angry, we feel ashamed and those feelings along with the resentments all drag us back into the bottle. Staying sober takes a lot of work.
BUT, I also think low-bottom drunks can help other low-bottom drunks more than anyone. We talk the same language, we've felt the same way, we've existed in that space. You could do a lot of good in the world if you stay committed to your sobriety.
You posts sound like run of the mill alcoholic bravado and end-of-times fascinations for the kinds of drunks I bare my soul with.
But what then is to become of Jeff? Well, that is yet to be discovered. Low-bottom drunks get to a point where any path they choose is hard. Staying with the booze is hard for obvious reasons. But straightening up is hard too, because reality is so foreign to us. Actually having to feel real feelings is so hard. We crave the freedom from consciousness, from caring. We will accept the low lows that come with the high highs because the ideas of a normal banal life does not appeal to us. We are also, in a sense, lazy. We don't want to do the work it takes to make right all of the things we make wrong. We also struggle more than most with resentments. We forget that all the people in our life that are acting crazy or not supportive are at least partly that way because we made them that way. We are little tornados spinning through the world wreaking havoc on anything and everything in our vicinity. We do damage. And a lot of the damage we do, we are not present for. We have checked out. So when we return to reality we are surprised at the reactions of others. We didn't mean any harm. But people get hurt. So we feel angry, we feel ashamed and those feelings along with the resentments all drag us back into the bottle. Staying sober takes a lot of work.
BUT, I also think low-bottom drunks can help other low-bottom drunks more than anyone. We talk the same language, we've felt the same way, we've existed in that space. You could do a lot of good in the world if you stay committed to your sobriety.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,598
Originally Posted by thomas11
You're a good dude man. And I mean it. Thank you.
How about putting down the bottle right now Jeff? Sober up sooner, fell better sooner. You’ve had your drunk. It’s not all you hoped it would be and it will only get worse. Put it down buddy.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,607
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xk7f6i0CNfs
Hello Felicia.
Hope I'm not included as one of the "haters Jeff". I don't hate you Jeff, won't waste my time on it. A useless emotion. Reactionary. Think your posts were pretty self indulgent tho. And for your own good, think you need to be told. Part of growing up. You say we are free to say what we feel here. This is how I feel.
Lets face it Jeff, your posts didn't contain much of "that lovin' feeling," either. Often really mean. Unnecessary. Your own anger. Your own hate. Yours, Jeff, not others.
You can't let me down Jeff, it's not within your power. Not now that I'm sober, and more grown up.
Hello Felicia.
Hope I'm not included as one of the "haters Jeff". I don't hate you Jeff, won't waste my time on it. A useless emotion. Reactionary. Think your posts were pretty self indulgent tho. And for your own good, think you need to be told. Part of growing up. You say we are free to say what we feel here. This is how I feel.
Lets face it Jeff, your posts didn't contain much of "that lovin' feeling," either. Often really mean. Unnecessary. Your own anger. Your own hate. Yours, Jeff, not others.
You can't let me down Jeff, it's not within your power. Not now that I'm sober, and more grown up.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Let's move on from the 'haters' and please remember to use the Ignore button if the thread/posts bother you. Thanks.
Jeff, I'm glad you're here. I hope you've stopped drinking by now. It's time to turn this around.
Jeff, I'm glad you're here. I hope you've stopped drinking by now. It's time to turn this around.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,477
I hope you have the courage and the strength to stop drinking today Jeff, or at least get some real world help in place.
Despite your assertions to the contrary, you’re a good guy - the amount of people here rooting for you proves that, bud.
D
Despite your assertions to the contrary, you’re a good guy - the amount of people here rooting for you proves that, bud.
D
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,607
I don't understand. I removed myself from the "hate" bit. Said I DIDN'T hate.
Do you not think it important to point out self indulgence, a common theme amongst us all? Thought it might help Jeff to know. Or, do we only send unicorns and rainbows here?
I'll move on, but seriously, do not understand why not able to point out something that might keep a person stuck in a place that might only see them continue to drink.
And I'm not immune.
Edit: I hope you've stopped drinking too , Jeff. Possibly even gotten to work. If not, tomorrow for sure.
Do you not think it important to point out self indulgence, a common theme amongst us all? Thought it might help Jeff to know. Or, do we only send unicorns and rainbows here?
I'll move on, but seriously, do not understand why not able to point out something that might keep a person stuck in a place that might only see them continue to drink.
And I'm not immune.
Edit: I hope you've stopped drinking too , Jeff. Possibly even gotten to work. If not, tomorrow for sure.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,598
I don’t think Anna was talking to you specifically Steely. More just the thread in general. I think you are definitely right to point out Jeff’s self indulgence. But my guess is he’ll probably know that already when he sobers up. I usually come out of a bender MORTIFIED by the things I’ve said to others.
There but for the grace of God go I.
There but for the grace of God go I.
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by BeABetterMan;[url=tel:7581822
7581822[/url]]I don’t think Anna was talking to you specifically Steely. More just the thread in general. I think you are definitely right to point out Jeff’s self indulgence. But my guess is he’ll probably know that already when he sobers up. I usually come out of a bender MORTIFIED by the things I’ve said to others.
There but for the grace of God go I.
There but for the grace of God go I.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I hope you have the courage and the strength to stop drinking today Jeff, or at least get some real world help in place.
Despite your assertions to the contrary, you’re a good guy - the amount of people here rooting for you proves that, bud.
D
Despite your assertions to the contrary, you’re a good guy - the amount of people here rooting for you proves that, bud.
D
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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I'm sorry the hospital wasn't much help to you Jeff.
What did you say when asking for help?
What did they say?
I assume you had to sober up a bit to go do that - maybe it's the smart move to run with the sobering up thing now?
D
What did you say when asking for help?
What did they say?
I assume you had to sober up a bit to go do that - maybe it's the smart move to run with the sobering up thing now?
D
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
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Originally Posted by TheAten
Absolutely mortified - such a feeling you think you’ll never get over (but thankfully, eventually you do).... I can’t change the past, only create a great present and forge a great future.
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