Learn to ask for help Weekender Oct. 5-11
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,246
Great opening MLD. Thank you. I rarely ask for help.....never did. Long before I got into trouble with alcohol I was pathologically avoidant of any outward signs of my own vulnerability. I now see asking for help requires real strength. Still hard for this leopard to change her spots. But I will try.......
Sober since October
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Originally Posted by MLD51 
Why are you scared to do it, MB? Are you afraid they will think you are incompetent? If they are supposed to be mentors, they are there to help you! I understand it, though. I ask for help all the time at work (my job is complicated and I am somewhat new, and still learning). I used to be afraid to do it, but I now realize no one expects me to know everything, and they appreciate being asked, because it means I'm trying to learn and get better at the job. It is in everyone's best interest that you learn everything you can!
Silly, I know.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
Great opener, MLD! Thank you.
One of the most striking memories I have of joining SR is how surprised I was to see how much we all have in common, no matter the variations in our lives. There had been so many times I'd felt I had to be the only person in the world who felt the way I did. Boy, was I wrong.
If you're out there reading but not participating, please think about climbing aboard. It truly makes a difference.
One of the most striking memories I have of joining SR is how surprised I was to see how much we all have in common, no matter the variations in our lives. There had been so many times I'd felt I had to be the only person in the world who felt the way I did. Boy, was I wrong.
If you're out there reading but not participating, please think about climbing aboard. It truly makes a difference.
Formerly ScrewdUpInDe
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: In the Nightmare in my head
Posts: 5,329
Funny story about asking for help.
I go to check into a rehab clinic the day I got clean. The refuse to admit me because I didn't have insurance and recommended a State run place. I ask if it's any good, their answer is that they accept people without insurance. That told me all I needed to know.
I went back out to my car and fumed for a bit, got really pissed off and decided, screw you, I'll do it myself. Fortunately it worked.
I go to check into a rehab clinic the day I got clean. The refuse to admit me because I didn't have insurance and recommended a State run place. I ask if it's any good, their answer is that they accept people without insurance. That told me all I needed to know.
I went back out to my car and fumed for a bit, got really pissed off and decided, screw you, I'll do it myself. Fortunately it worked.
Mr
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 5,230
I was chatting with Mrs Vman this morning and I asked her waht she thought about the danger of wanting to try to help others too much and if Women were more prone to that than men. I was kind of silly because I know she is very characterisitic of that person you described Bim. She finds a "way out" for herself by helping and being preoccupied by others problems or events. She is indeed the listener. The danger is that you get addicted to doing that, i was often told she was co dependant or addicted to me and my problems.
She said to me men probably are less likely to forget about their own problems as easily as a woman
(i said ok)
We stopped talking about that and started talking about where we are at now. Because we are happy.
Since I joined SR in Mar 2016 things have really changed. I changed. We are in a zone we have not been for so long or never were. We have finally overcome the second level of Maslows pyramid of needs. We feel security in a very general sense has been accomplished. Now we are working on the esteem aspects.
We got back some dignity and self respect at last. Feels great.
I dont know if you know any Maslow but its a very simple model but very interesting : ""The first four levels are often referred to as deficiency needs (D-needs), and the top level is known as growth or being needs (B-needs)."
https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
Look at the expanded hierarchy of needs : Transcendence needs (helping others)
She said to me men probably are less likely to forget about their own problems as easily as a woman
(i said ok)We stopped talking about that and started talking about where we are at now. Because we are happy.
Since I joined SR in Mar 2016 things have really changed. I changed. We are in a zone we have not been for so long or never were. We have finally overcome the second level of Maslows pyramid of needs. We feel security in a very general sense has been accomplished. Now we are working on the esteem aspects.
We got back some dignity and self respect at last. Feels great.
I dont know if you know any Maslow but its a very simple model but very interesting : ""The first four levels are often referred to as deficiency needs (D-needs), and the top level is known as growth or being needs (B-needs)."
https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
Look at the expanded hierarchy of needs : Transcendence needs (helping others)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: US
Posts: 16,909
Thanks for sharing the link, VMan ~ that explains why I haven't been able to explore my creative side very much.....other issues need to be dealt with first. (I didn't realize we're in the same class! Stop by and say hello if you'd like )
I have the day off today so you guys may see more of me.....you have been warned!
)I have the day off today so you guys may see more of me.....you have been warned!
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
IN!
Great topic and opening post, Marty!
I went through a long phase of not asking for help with my drinking problems. I think it was in some part because I felt unworthy, but also I didn't really think I could be helped. Probably because my initial expectations weren't met. I went to AA in 1990. In my mind, that's what you did if you were an alcoholic - you went to AA and they fixed you. So I went to AA for 2 months, but I wasn't fixed. In my mind this meant I was 'unfixable'. So I stopped trying to get help.
Only took me 23 years to figure out I was 'fixable', but my expectations about what help looked like were all wrong - and preventing me from getting help!
This comment from Bimini's corollary also really got me:
This is Mrs Nons to a 'T'
She hasn't crawled into a bottle over it, but she tries to take care of everyone's issues and solve everyone's problems. She uses the 10% of the time that she is actually helpful to justify the other 90% of the time when her efforts are useless (or even counter-productive). When the kids or I express some frustration with her about it she either gets angry("You should be more appreciative, I am just trying to help!") or goes into martyr-mode ("I guess I am just the worst person in the world!")
Love her dearly, but I wish I could get her to see that she isn't the solution to all of our troubles!
Here's to another great weekend in Soberland!
Great topic and opening post, Marty!
I went through a long phase of not asking for help with my drinking problems. I think it was in some part because I felt unworthy, but also I didn't really think I could be helped. Probably because my initial expectations weren't met. I went to AA in 1990. In my mind, that's what you did if you were an alcoholic - you went to AA and they fixed you. So I went to AA for 2 months, but I wasn't fixed. In my mind this meant I was 'unfixable'. So I stopped trying to get help.
Only took me 23 years to figure out I was 'fixable', but my expectations about what help looked like were all wrong - and preventing me from getting help!
This comment from Bimini's corollary also really got me:
Originally Posted by biminiblue
... I learned it early. I'd say by age five.
- Help others.
- Be worried about other peoples' problems (..and then the progression/addiction to control.)
- Take on their problems.
- Try to fix them.
- Get angry when that doesn't work. (Pro-tip: it never works.)
She hasn't crawled into a bottle over it, but she tries to take care of everyone's issues and solve everyone's problems. She uses the 10% of the time that she is actually helpful to justify the other 90% of the time when her efforts are useless (or even counter-productive). When the kids or I express some frustration with her about it she either gets angry("You should be more appreciative, I am just trying to help!") or goes into martyr-mode ("I guess I am just the worst person in the world!")
Love her dearly, but I wish I could get her to see that she isn't the solution to all of our troubles!
Here's to another great weekend in Soberland!
Sober-T- Dragon
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 8,762
Della1968 , "I feel like I have put people through enough". So true, that goes along with 'I am not worthy'. You can feel like you've been such a pain nobody will want to help you anyway.
very good post Bim, you've given me a new perspective on some persons in my life.
very good post Bim, you've given me a new perspective on some persons in my life.
Sober-T- Dragon
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 8,762
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
I don't know, actually, Marty. I think it's one of those "paper tigers" which just seem to be scary. I expect myself to come up with "perfect" questions and provide some "perfect progress" on my project. Otherwise I am somewhat ashamed to bother them. I think I am afraid they will says "And that's all you've managed to accomplish?"
Silly, I know.
Silly, I know.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,742
Judgment, both of self and others, is a major drinking trigger for me.
And I have avoided people my entire life simply to avoid judgement and conflict rather than risk asking for help.
In fact, I've damaged my life through this mode of living, skirting and fleeing from any negative judgment instead of standing up to it, facing it, and, in many instances saying the needed word "no" this isn't right and I'm not accepting what isn't right for me. Can we try something else instead? Negotiating and cooperating aren't skills I have much practice using. 'All or nothing' thinking is a b**ch. It keeps someone like me who needs help from asking for it.
My thinking was: if you're going to judge me, I'd rather not ask for your help. And of course you're going to judge me, I'm unworthy of anything but negative judgement. You'll find (as I find) I'm always doing or saying something wrong.
And if I judge YOU a certain way, I won't give you the benefit of the doubt. I project onto you my own unworthiness. Ulgh. Not a great way to go through life.
In fact, it's an outrageous way to live! How can a person accomplish anything worthwhile if they're afraid of judgment and the humility to accept it, or the strength to reject that which isn't true?!
This coping mechanism, running from judgment, wasn't helping me recover. And it was keeping me from asking for help. I needed a different way of looking at people and their judgments and also a different way of looking at myself and my own judgments.
I think this is the core work of recovering one's self-esteem. And self-esteem, self-love is the core of recovery.
And I have avoided people my entire life simply to avoid judgement and conflict rather than risk asking for help.
In fact, I've damaged my life through this mode of living, skirting and fleeing from any negative judgment instead of standing up to it, facing it, and, in many instances saying the needed word "no" this isn't right and I'm not accepting what isn't right for me. Can we try something else instead? Negotiating and cooperating aren't skills I have much practice using. 'All or nothing' thinking is a b**ch. It keeps someone like me who needs help from asking for it.
My thinking was: if you're going to judge me, I'd rather not ask for your help. And of course you're going to judge me, I'm unworthy of anything but negative judgement. You'll find (as I find) I'm always doing or saying something wrong.
And if I judge YOU a certain way, I won't give you the benefit of the doubt. I project onto you my own unworthiness. Ulgh. Not a great way to go through life.
In fact, it's an outrageous way to live! How can a person accomplish anything worthwhile if they're afraid of judgment and the humility to accept it, or the strength to reject that which isn't true?!
This coping mechanism, running from judgment, wasn't helping me recover. And it was keeping me from asking for help. I needed a different way of looking at people and their judgments and also a different way of looking at myself and my own judgments.
I think this is the core work of recovering one's self-esteem. And self-esteem, self-love is the core of recovery.
Giving up is NOT an option.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 7,809
Excellent observations, Carpathia. I was also really afraid of other peoples' judgement before I admitted out loud I had a serious drinking problem. I wanted so much to be liked and accepted and I was afraid if I admitted I was not in control of my drinking and life that I'd be judged harshly. Yes, there were a few people who did judge me harshly, but it turned out that what they were really judging was my BEHAVIOR while drinking - not ME. Once I came clean and got help and quit behaving like a jerk all the time, most people are forgiving. There are still a few who will probably never get past it, and they are simply no longer in my life in any meaningful way.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by DarklingSong
Great opening MLD. Thank you. I rarely ask for help.....never did. Long before I got into trouble with alcohol I was pathologically avoidant of any outward signs of my own vulnerability. I now see asking for help requires real strength. Still hard for this leopard to change her spots. But I will try.......
Someone else said they dont like to ask “because I feel like I have put people through enough”. I especially feel this way with the one or two closest to me, whom I have let down to the most disgusting and astonishing extents. But even with them...forcing myself to be honest and open is the ONLY hope for healing, as I see it.
The thing is, to withstand the fear of failure or fear of losing people...’the big stuff ‘....I have found I must keep honest lines of communication open with a larger number of people, asking for and getting help in ways small and large. It certainly is not all about alcohol. It IS about not stewing at work about a task I'm unclear on. It IS about not wondering FOR DAYS why a particular client or friend hasn't returned my call. Examples are endless..in these cases I am quicker to just ASK, and if the reception I get leaves me still stewing, I widen my circle and discuss that.
Hi everyone! Thanks for the great opener, MLD! I am IN!
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