Aysha

I have read it. I think we all may have. If not heres it is..

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-me-fall.html

There are few different versions.

I often wonder if my grams had let me fall. Would I have gotten it together sooner? Or would I have really went off the deep end and not be here right now?

I cant say for sure.
Another double standard of life I guess.
Should I let go and let them stew in their own misery all alone? Or should I still be there every step of the way so they know someone still cares and will be there no matter what?
If I leave them. Will they truly give up and end up killing themselves for sure?
Or will they see what they have lost and try and change to get ti back?
Do I hold on and stay by their side to encourage and motuvate? So they always know someone cares and want to change for that unconditional love? Or am I just loving them to death and giving them a pass to live howeveer they want and hurt everyone along the way?

Its so hard. I cant imagine what soem parents and loved ones must got hrough when they make that decision. I am almost i tears right now thinking about it.

I dont know..I guess I would be the type to stay no matter what. With bounderies of course. I dont think I could ever just wash my hands until they decided to get help and keep it.
My grams never once turned her back on me. And I know it hurt me alot more than it helped. But at the same time. If she had turned her back on me. I know deep down I would be dead right now. My family is what keeps me going. Not using. But trying. KNowing they love me unconditionally and are always there for me. And forgive and try to understand means so much sometimes.
My father is the type to disconnect and walk away. I feel like he doesnt care. Especially when he of all people have been where I am. I feel like he would be the one to help guide me and share some of his wisdom of how he got and stayed sober for over 20 yrs now.

But I see why some need to let go for their own sanity. I wouldnt want to deliberately drag soemone down with me and make them miserable too. I feel my grams should have let me go a long time ago on that aspect.

But she isnt phased by it at all. She would rather walk through hell with me than let me walk alone.

Its so confusing. It really is. And such a hard hard thing to have to deal with.
I feel so bad for all the people that have to make these choices.

CAPTAINZING2000

I'm going to be tough on my kids. I want to be in a lot of pain anytime, they choose to drink or drug.

I had 3 kids all lose their lic. with in a years time. I wasn't asked and I wouldn't offer any money to help them. I didn't offer any advice . .


I don't see it as your father is disconnecting, I see it as he wants you to learn by your mistakes

Aysha

Its one thing to lose your license. and a whole other thing when your kids gets picked up for robbery and is in the street 24/7 lookin homeless and acting like they dont care if they live or die.
I know I have walked through my doors after a week in the street. Looking like I literally crawled out of a gutter. Same clothes for days. No shower,no food ,burned up lips. Beat up looking like I got my ass kicked. Stinking like I dont have a home.
I have taken my addiciton to the limits of no turning back so many times. When you are sitting on a bridge looking down and just trying to get the courage to let go. Sitting with a gun in your hand doing the same thing. When addiction has taken to those levels. Its very very serious and very very scary.
My gram watched me stab myself in the chest with a pair of scissors one night. Jump out of moving cars. Try and fight a gang of people cause I was so messed up I didnt know what I was doing. I put her in danger more ways than I care to rememeber. By having her take me to the hood to cop drugs. When do you draw the line?

I just asked her why she never let me go.
She said cause she loves me. She was afraid I would never come back. BEcause she knows how violent I get and was afraid someone would kill me.
I asked her if she thought had she let me feel my consequences and let me fall. What she thought would happen. She said I would be dead.

I dont know how true that is.

I know my father wants me to learn o my own. But my father has never been a part of my life anyway. So theres really no telling the difference. I think for him it is a cop out. Another way he doesnt have to deal with me. He wasnt there when I was a kid. Why should he start? I am too big of a reminder to him of what he lost in his own addiction. I know in my heart what I am to him. I remind him of everything he lost that he loved so much. And he cant stand it. And I know he wishes he would have treated her better.
And now his life is nothing like he wanted. But he is stuck with it and just goes with the flow now. But I know in the back of his mind. He still wishes he had what he threw away.

Aysha

I didnt want this thread to be about what has happened to me.

I just went off into space as I do alot when I type and talk. I just get lost in my thoguhts alot.

My whole point was. How do you know whats best?
Not everyone responds the same way.
Some may get it if all their left with is themselves and their mess.
Some..Like me..May take that as a ticket to check out.

I dont know. I know it is very confusing and so double standard. All of it.
Its frustrating.

Bamboozle

I hope you aren't beating yourself up about this:



Chiy, you are lucky to have her. She loves you. And I know you love her.

I may be confused about where you're coming from on this, but I worry that you are going to soak in the guilt. That's a bad idea. I know that anytime I feel really guilty I've used that as an excuse to get really f***ed up.

I do my best to let the guilt go and make ammends to people. It takes time.

Give her a hug and tell her that you love her and show her the same kind of love that she's given you. You can be there for her like she's there for you.

Bamboozle

Just saw this after I posted.

Chiy, it does depend on the person. I know I've said this before, but if my parents had left me hanging in the wind, I would have killed myself. I wouldn't have had anything left to care about.

Aysha

No..This is not a guilt thread. It wasnt even suppose to reflect anything about my own issues.
Just some things I have seen lately.
Like how everyone has their own path to everything.
I just wonder how being set in one certain way to deal with addiction can affect different people.

Does that make sense?
Being a hard ass doesnt help everyone. I have to admit I get more out of the strait talkers. If its delivered right. The ones that just come across as jerks. No matter how honest they are. I dont get that. You can talk all the truth you want in my book If its not delivered in the right tone. Your wasting your breathe.
Like m cousins wife. She si so funny. She is so polite she even cusses politely. LOL. And it just has a different effect in how she says it.
When you make someone feel like because they are not getting it. That now they arent trying or they are fooling themsleves. That they arent hurting just as much or trying or dont desreve peoples time. Thats wrong.
Like when people say they want to leave because they slipped. They feel shame. They feel like they are becoming a burden. Liek they are wasting our time. And it comes from how we are treated at some point before that in a time where we have fallen short before.
"Oh..I'm not going to beg you to stay." "Or we'll be here when you decide you want to be serious.Your on your own till then." Why would you even say something like that? Like what you think is going to make or break someone.
I dont get that mentality. How does that help?
You can be assertive without disconnecting. You can still help and be there without sacrificing yourself.
Theres always a right way to do everything,
I know alot of people will disagree with this. And personally..I dont care.

I myself just can not bring myself to tell someone because they cant seem to get it. That I am tired of wasting my time. So they arent trying because they are so lost in addiciton. I dont believe most people arent serious. Fooling themselves ..Yes. But I do believe most are serious and really do try. They just dont try hard enough or are not strong enough to keep fighting.

coffeenut

No one knows what's best, Chiy.

One person handles something one way, another person, another way. We all do what we Think is best for our kids (and families). Some of us are right, some of us aren't. And it hurts like hell.

I've lost very close family members....not to addiction, but to other circumstances. I handled things the very best way I thought I could. They didn't agree. We don't speak. Sad, but that's the way it is. I live with it, I refuse to let myself die to drink over it.

Ah, Chiy, you remind me of my sister. I do wish you the very best.

JMFburns

Probably not the best post for me to read at this time, but since I did I thought I'd chime in as well.

I'm finding the past couple days that I have to finally make this drastic step of cutting my son out of my life for now.

What's his problem? I don't know for sure about drugs right now, but he has a lot of mental problems that he needs to resolve, his past problems with drugs, anger, homelessness, joblessness, no more friends, rest of family (Dad & sister) have given up on him, etc. I was all he had left but he was only using me for money.

He says he needs me as a support now, but I feel it is ONLY about money. I can't say no to him no matter how many times I tell myself I'm going to so . . . I've dug myself into the worst financial hole . . . I want out.

I gotta let him go, not see him, get better. It hurts like he!! and I had to make a list of the recent ways he's scammed me so I can try to recall the anger instead of getting caught up in sympathy. Is it the right thing to do, I hope so . . . if not I'm going down with him and I don't think that is right.

I pray he finds the help he needs, that there is someone out there that will reach out a hand to him. I love him more than I love myself right now and I have to turn that around a bit.

Take care, Joan

Bamboozle

Yeah.



I don't have any patience for people who take the hard line approach in any aspect in life. I run far away as fast as I can.

I think that there is not enough compassion in this world. I've already learned enough tough lessons in life...I don't need anyone to beat me over the head with their knowledge.

I think people can be honest without being an ass.



I agree.


Yeah.

I think some don't know how to try. I know I don't most of the time. I bumble along the best I can and know that at any time I can fall back into the abyss.

For now, when I'm successful I'm here. When I'm doing poorly, I'm here.

Aysha

This I get. And your not wrong. I wouldnt want anyone on my family to go through that either.

I dont think my point is coming across right.
Its not about people like JMF. That I couldnt even begin to imagine how hard that ahs to be. And soemtimes it has to be.

I am talking about how some choose to give their so called support.
Some just come across down right rude.
They will say over and over how they have what you want. But if your not going to do exactly like I say to do it. You are going to fail. I think that is total BS.

You can the same thing as those hard asses. And say it in just a little bit of a gentler way. I am not saying kiss someones ass and rub their belly. It all comes down to compassion. Compassion is not sugar coating. It isnt lieing. Its saying you understand . And that you care. Be honest and to the point. But leave out all the self riteous BS.

I still cant relay exactly what I mean without sounding arrogant myself.

Bottom line. I do believe we dont have to wash our hands completely. I believe we can still support without being victims or sacrifice ourselves.
Now if it comes down to you or them. Like JMF. Where your just as ill as they are in codependancy. Then yes. Do you first.
I am not talking about that so much.
I am referring to some that seem like they have never been on that pitiful side before. People are so sensitive when they are in active addciton. And if someone at least tries. Even if they fail and keep failing. If they have hope and try. Feed that. Dont crucify them for falling short by taking away your support. Thats all I am saying.

Tazman53

I personally feel there is a difference between loving some one and enabling some one.

Thank God my wife and the rest of my family decided that if I was going to drink myself to death they were not going to put food in my mouth, a roof over my head, a set of wheels to get booze or any money to buy it. I saw my end when I saw that no one was going to help me in any way shape form or fashion until I got my act together.

My whole family knew that anything they gave me kept me from hitting a bottom, why should I have quit drinking if I still had a bed to sleep in, food to eat, and a family?

They let me know that they loved me and would be there for me when I stopped, they made me face the consequences of my actions alone! I had to make a choice, keep on drinking and lose it all, or stop and maybe save it all. They let me know flat out that there was to be no help from them until I started helping myself.

If they had not quit enabling me, I would either be dead, in jail, or an institution.

ex D-Boy

if my mother and father didnt fight for me and help in everyway they knew how to get me away from addiction I would probably be doing 7-20 years in NY under the rockefeller laws or dead from a hot shot. Granted I had to make the decision to stop using all by myself but it never hurts to have loved ones in your corner for strength and support.

You are very lucky to have a grandmother like you do trish.

CAPTAINZING2000

We all have choices to make in life. Strange, how drugs and alcohol will make us choose badly .

If, we're struck down with cancer, for the most part, we're not going to ignore the fact we need to seek professional help to try and treat it.


We live in denial with our alcohol and drug addiction.

I made the unhealthy choice to take drugs and drink. It's up to us to seek help. If, we don't want help, no one can make us clean and sober!!!!!

As a child, I can give that b.s line I had a lousy upbringing. As an adult, every choice I make, I can't blame anyone else.

Pain to me is the greatest motivator. I use this continually at a meeting, hit your finger with a hammer. Did that hurt your finger? It's going to continually get more painful using drugs an alcohol as well.

Our disease is cunning and baffling leaves us lying in the gutter thinking we're ok.

Everytime, I read about someone going to prison or, dying due to drugs and alcohol I have to give thanks for sobriety today.

We can let people know we care. That doesn't mean, we have to offer them money to buy drugs or booze with. I'll be damned if, I'd pay my kids rent if, I knew he was taking his own money to buy drugs or alcohol with it.

There's a different standard often times as to what, a father will do as opposed to a mother.

As a father, I have to let go and let God

keithj

You know, Trish, it's a tough call and a tough deal. Looking back at my life and early drinking, from a recovered perspective, I believe that I would have been best served by paying dearly for my actions a lot earlier in life. I really didn't suffer consequences that I couldn't live with until my alcoholism was full blown. And by then, all the consequences in the world couldn't make me stop.

From what I see around me, based on working with a fair number of alcoholics, the alcoholic is best served by strict boundaries and harsh consequences. I was giving a guy a ride back to the homeless shelter the other night. His folks had kicked him out last year, he got serious about recovery, started the steps, and his folks let him come back home. Within a couple of months, he was lying and using again. Out he went. And back into recovery he went. His dad told me, "Well, J was doing pretty well when he was staying at the shelter."

I've got another guy I'm working with in a pretty similar situation. His dad is ready to give him the boot and say good luck.

I don't think it's about letting go for their own sanity, although I'm sure that's a valid reason. You see, both the dads I'm talking about are recovered alcoholics. They know what is in the best interest of their sons from the alcoholic perspective. So they do the loving thing and let them dangle.

gerryP

Dead ON Tazman.

gerryP

I agree Ex D Boy.

Fighting for you and helping in everyway to get you *AWAY* from your addiction.

ChameleonBoy

I was almost enabled to death.

I really love my mom, she loved me so much she accepted me and was willing to do anything for me. She finally saw that she had to drop me off at a treatment center 250 miles away and stop all support for me. She did send me a carton of Camels and my shoes....

Tough Love is real love with understanding.

Dee74

I've been thinking about this a lot lately Chiy - no answers tho LOL

I can only talk about SR really - I figure if I'm responding for me, rather than the person I'm responding to, then I'm not doing any good.

I try to be fair and firm in what I believe and truthful and honest - but slapping someone into next week is probably only gonna make them leave the board, or resent me and my future efforts, or resent being here - and there's no value in any of that.

You can be honest but respectful and loving, and you can be supportive and caring without being enabling.

The best thing I've learned here is I can't make someone else well.

Sometimes the best thing is hanging in there with them, and sometimes? it's walking away to let them find their feet.

I don't think I've got all this yet LOL but I'm trying.
D