Class Of December 2013 - Part 9
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
JR...don't forget the parts in that book (I'm thinking it's the Lawrence Peltz one published by Shambhala) about loving kindness and compassion toward self. It's a lot easier to tear ourselves down than it is to build ourselves back up again.
I just got back from the Shambhala center after a weekend of warrior training. We probably meditated for ten hours this weekend. A much needed break from my routine, for sure. All I can really say is meditation is working for me, but I had to be sober for quite awhile before I could make it work. Such a strange thing to sit and do nothing but breathe and observe the mind for hours on end. When I tried a solo retreat in Spring 2014 I almost went mad. I didn't like what I saw in there - in my head and my heart. This weekend was a Level I training - basic introduction to meditation with a focus on the Shambhala concept of Basic Goodness. Some folks really struggled, but I'm happy to say that it was quite pleasant from my perspective. I've come to accept myself and my fate (if one could call it that) if not entirely at least a lot more than in the past.
I think I'm the same kind of alcoholic as you, JR, in that I rarely got ridiculously hammered, but I drank almost daily, and on weekends more than enough. It took some time without booze to realize that I was trying to suppress my disappointment - in myself, my career, my life - and the shame and guilt that grew out of everything from the abuse I endured as a child to the neglect I inflicted upon my dying mother, and the fact that I had become too much like my narcissistic father... and all the stupid **** I've done... Alcohol was an avoidance behavior - avoidance of reality - avoidance of the true nature of things - avoidance of the emotions that dogged me until I came to terms with them by sitting with them, feeling them, acknowledging them, and breathing them out - many many many many many many times...
The path of the Shambhala warrior is a path of bravery - of courage - the kind of courage that allows us to feel - allows us to see and to be awake regardless of our past and our current circumstance. Trungpa's crazy wisdom is that things are hopeless, but we have nothing to fear. Unfortunately, he drank himself to death.
It is a great irony that I met Trungpa in the 80's and I was turned off by the fact that I had read his books and so admired him, but he showed up to a meditation class late and hammered. Now, 30 years later and long after his untimely death, I've returned to the philosophy and the practice precisely because of my own addictions. The Shambhala center now has Buddhist 12-Step meetings twice a week (too far for me to attend for an evening), and though people don't like bringing up how he died, there seems a sense that his wisdom is what it is regardless of how he lived and died in the end. What better place to be accepted for who and what I am (an addict) than a Shambhala center?
So, JR, my suggestion would be keep with Peltz's book. Maybe read some Trungpa with fresh perspective. Nobody ever said it would be pretty, but if you look deeply enough you will see that Basic Goodness, not only in the world, but most importantly, in yourself.
I just got back from the Shambhala center after a weekend of warrior training. We probably meditated for ten hours this weekend. A much needed break from my routine, for sure. All I can really say is meditation is working for me, but I had to be sober for quite awhile before I could make it work. Such a strange thing to sit and do nothing but breathe and observe the mind for hours on end. When I tried a solo retreat in Spring 2014 I almost went mad. I didn't like what I saw in there - in my head and my heart. This weekend was a Level I training - basic introduction to meditation with a focus on the Shambhala concept of Basic Goodness. Some folks really struggled, but I'm happy to say that it was quite pleasant from my perspective. I've come to accept myself and my fate (if one could call it that) if not entirely at least a lot more than in the past.
I think I'm the same kind of alcoholic as you, JR, in that I rarely got ridiculously hammered, but I drank almost daily, and on weekends more than enough. It took some time without booze to realize that I was trying to suppress my disappointment - in myself, my career, my life - and the shame and guilt that grew out of everything from the abuse I endured as a child to the neglect I inflicted upon my dying mother, and the fact that I had become too much like my narcissistic father... and all the stupid **** I've done... Alcohol was an avoidance behavior - avoidance of reality - avoidance of the true nature of things - avoidance of the emotions that dogged me until I came to terms with them by sitting with them, feeling them, acknowledging them, and breathing them out - many many many many many many times...
The path of the Shambhala warrior is a path of bravery - of courage - the kind of courage that allows us to feel - allows us to see and to be awake regardless of our past and our current circumstance. Trungpa's crazy wisdom is that things are hopeless, but we have nothing to fear. Unfortunately, he drank himself to death.
It is a great irony that I met Trungpa in the 80's and I was turned off by the fact that I had read his books and so admired him, but he showed up to a meditation class late and hammered. Now, 30 years later and long after his untimely death, I've returned to the philosophy and the practice precisely because of my own addictions. The Shambhala center now has Buddhist 12-Step meetings twice a week (too far for me to attend for an evening), and though people don't like bringing up how he died, there seems a sense that his wisdom is what it is regardless of how he lived and died in the end. What better place to be accepted for who and what I am (an addict) than a Shambhala center?
So, JR, my suggestion would be keep with Peltz's book. Maybe read some Trungpa with fresh perspective. Nobody ever said it would be pretty, but if you look deeply enough you will see that Basic Goodness, not only in the world, but most importantly, in yourself.
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Thanks, Zero. Beautifully put. I am reading, slowly, the Peltz book. And do practice loving kindness. I have to remind myself that it's much about the journey, and less about the destination.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Glad to hear of your weekend Zero... basic goodness... yeah
JR - compassion and loving kindness is just as important for oneself as it is for the world at large.
what kind of 'alcoholic' was I? it really doesn't matter. what matters is that I finally recognized that I should no longer drink. Yes, it took an event to wake me up. But it also gave me pause to reflect on the years. The fact that I am still alive in relatively good health is a miracle. I had so many 'wake up calls' over the years but chose to ignore them. The day I lost my job I vowed to never allow alcohol to have an effect on my life as long as I live. And being the type of drinker I was there was only one way to ensure it. Never drink again. It was like getting hit upside the head with a brick. No more playing the daily drinking lottery anymore.
JR - compassion and loving kindness is just as important for oneself as it is for the world at large.
what kind of 'alcoholic' was I? it really doesn't matter. what matters is that I finally recognized that I should no longer drink. Yes, it took an event to wake me up. But it also gave me pause to reflect on the years. The fact that I am still alive in relatively good health is a miracle. I had so many 'wake up calls' over the years but chose to ignore them. The day I lost my job I vowed to never allow alcohol to have an effect on my life as long as I live. And being the type of drinker I was there was only one way to ensure it. Never drink again. It was like getting hit upside the head with a brick. No more playing the daily drinking lottery anymore.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 451
There are some precocious minds in this group. I look forward to reading your insights and reflections. I'm a writer too. However, I've chosen to listen rather than speak at this point.
Pain is a great teacher.
Pain is a great teacher.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
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Vet, sometimes taking the time to reflect is good for the sole. I'm sure you also know that keeping things bottled up inside may lead one in the wrong direction. It is good to listen and think, or digest what others have put out there. It is also good to let it out, express those thoughts that are brewing in the back of your mind. Writing it down and/or sharing your thoughts with others is a healthy outlet. It's almost like talking to your dog, except here you might get some feedback. And, just like your dog, we won't judge you. That can be useful too.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Thank you, Brain. One thing that I've seen quietly in the past year is people in my professional life that are enormously successful who drink every day. It's surprising how much you can learn by just observing. How do they do it. I'm basically a weekend warrior. I don't usually drink during the week. But it bothers me because my tolerance is much less than theirs. It's almost the weekend when I will make plans to put myself in situations where I can't drink. I don't get drunk. I'm a sipper. My wife doesn't see me drink. I'm a sneaky type. I don't really bother anyone except myself. Thanks for listening.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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One thing that I've seen quietly in the past year is people in my professional life that are enormously successful who drink every day.
That enormously successful thing only stretches so far Vet...I lost two careers through my drinking ...I lost control of the wheel and went from Hero to Zero very quickly.
I don't really bother anyone except myself.
But it bothers me because my tolerance is much less than theirs.
D
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I'm afraid I may have already done enough to damage my health even though I passed a complete physical a few weeks ago and work out several times a week. Fear is a companion of alcohol. I guess I'm just afraid I've done this too long.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I'm gonna have to throw the flag on that one Vet. The human body is an amazing and resilient creation. But it will listen to the control center...
I know people who will themselves sick because they are so good at it - a family member. Psycho-somatic illness is very real.
I know people who have willed themselves back to good health from an illness.
A good attitude and a positive outlook are conquerors.
Just because other people drink everyday, why do we envy them? How do we really know their life is grand? Let's not look at what others do and we 'can't'. That is the alcoholic mind think. He drinks so why can't I? I got to tell you I heard an interesting twist to that. Someone said to me they wished they didn't drink. Interesting huh?
A positive outlook and feeling of well being can make us better.
I want you to get a copy of "Full Catastrophe Living" by Kabat-Zinn
Start at the very beginning - read everything! Don't just go into the main body of the text and start the chapters. Do this for yourself.
You are not too far gone... that's nonsense.
I know people who will themselves sick because they are so good at it - a family member. Psycho-somatic illness is very real.
I know people who have willed themselves back to good health from an illness.
A good attitude and a positive outlook are conquerors.
Just because other people drink everyday, why do we envy them? How do we really know their life is grand? Let's not look at what others do and we 'can't'. That is the alcoholic mind think. He drinks so why can't I? I got to tell you I heard an interesting twist to that. Someone said to me they wished they didn't drink. Interesting huh?
A positive outlook and feeling of well being can make us better.
I want you to get a copy of "Full Catastrophe Living" by Kabat-Zinn
Start at the very beginning - read everything! Don't just go into the main body of the text and start the chapters. Do this for yourself.
You are not too far gone... that's nonsense.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,552
Originally Posted by Vet69 
I'm afraid I may have already done enough to damage my health even though I passed a complete physical a few weeks ago and work out several times a week. Fear is a companion of alcohol. I guess I'm just afraid I've done this too long.
I do understand...we may one day all have to pay the piper for the lifestyle choices we made...but that day is not today...y'know?
Worrying about it changes nothing.
D
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
I sense more than ever that sobriety is the road less traveled, and I'm glad I'm on that road even if sometimes it's a little lonely.
I was a weekend warrior for a long time before I became a daily drinker. For the most part, my weekend war parties were fun, especially my habitual seeking of adventure through live music and nature. No regrets there.
What I realize now is that the weekday drinking grew out of stress and unhappiness. Alcoholism took hold because I was already miserable - with my job, my situation, physical pain, failing body parts, existential vacuum... So, I progressed from alcohol and other drugs being part of the adventure, to just alcohol that had nothing to do with adventure, but instead, escape.
I was one of those guys that was relatively successful while drinking daily. But what does success really mean in that context? I put up a good front. I was maintaining professionally and dying spiritually. More and more I see that alcoholism really is a spiritual malady. It's a chicken or the egg thing, but I am somewhat convinced that had I not made decisions that led to a life that seemed trapped and meaningless, I may not have succumbed to alcohol and could possibly be drinking today without it being a problem. Maybe that's the AV talking, or maybe that's accurate, but it's irrelevant now because it went too far and I can't go back.
My path now doesn't include intoxication. I thought it strange that so many of the folks at the Shambhala training I went to last weekend discussed having drinks after a full day of meditation, and it's even doubly strange knowing that the founder of Shambhala basically drank himself to death. My body and mind found alcohol entertaining and enhancing for years, but now I just see it as poison. Maybe my liver took a beating, but in my last years of drinking I seemed less able to drink without hangovers. Weekday drinking was rarely more than two glasses of wine, but it was almost daily. Saturday and Sunday mornings were usually foggy at best and flu-like too often.
Now that my health issues seem to be sorted out for now, I am so grateful I quit drinking before I needed all that prescription medication. Drinking through all that would have been beyond ill-advised. In recent months I've been to bars and festivals for live music and was never once tempted. I suspect to be blindsided with craving eventually, but for now the thought of getting high or even tipsy repulses me. And I don't mind being around high or drunk people (as long as they're not otherwise obnoxious).
Those of us who choose sobriety really are on the road less traveled, especially those of us who for years placed substances at or near the center of our lives. I read that 30% of American adults don't drink. That's a lot of sober people, but many of them don't drink because of their religion, and those aren't the people with which I'm likely to hang out. Then again, one could argue that my sobriety these days is rooted in Buddhism, but my buddhism is not the religious kind; not theistic, anyway.
Kabat-Zinn, Buddha, Trungpa, Rick Hanson, Peltz... Everyone has their angle, but the message is essentially the same: Presence, non-judgement, awareness, patience, compassion, practice...
Any addict (and I think Buddha was saying we are all addicts on some level) should read the first two of The Four Noble Truths and say, "Well, duh..."
https://thebuddhistcentre.com/text/four-noble-truths
The only real question is what path will work for any given individual. There is no doubt for me that daily meditation practice is changing my brain/mind despite the fact that my external situation basically hasn't changed - same job, same situations, different attitude, more balance...
I was a weekend warrior for a long time before I became a daily drinker. For the most part, my weekend war parties were fun, especially my habitual seeking of adventure through live music and nature. No regrets there.
What I realize now is that the weekday drinking grew out of stress and unhappiness. Alcoholism took hold because I was already miserable - with my job, my situation, physical pain, failing body parts, existential vacuum... So, I progressed from alcohol and other drugs being part of the adventure, to just alcohol that had nothing to do with adventure, but instead, escape.
I was one of those guys that was relatively successful while drinking daily. But what does success really mean in that context? I put up a good front. I was maintaining professionally and dying spiritually. More and more I see that alcoholism really is a spiritual malady. It's a chicken or the egg thing, but I am somewhat convinced that had I not made decisions that led to a life that seemed trapped and meaningless, I may not have succumbed to alcohol and could possibly be drinking today without it being a problem. Maybe that's the AV talking, or maybe that's accurate, but it's irrelevant now because it went too far and I can't go back.
My path now doesn't include intoxication. I thought it strange that so many of the folks at the Shambhala training I went to last weekend discussed having drinks after a full day of meditation, and it's even doubly strange knowing that the founder of Shambhala basically drank himself to death. My body and mind found alcohol entertaining and enhancing for years, but now I just see it as poison. Maybe my liver took a beating, but in my last years of drinking I seemed less able to drink without hangovers. Weekday drinking was rarely more than two glasses of wine, but it was almost daily. Saturday and Sunday mornings were usually foggy at best and flu-like too often.
Now that my health issues seem to be sorted out for now, I am so grateful I quit drinking before I needed all that prescription medication. Drinking through all that would have been beyond ill-advised. In recent months I've been to bars and festivals for live music and was never once tempted. I suspect to be blindsided with craving eventually, but for now the thought of getting high or even tipsy repulses me. And I don't mind being around high or drunk people (as long as they're not otherwise obnoxious).
Those of us who choose sobriety really are on the road less traveled, especially those of us who for years placed substances at or near the center of our lives. I read that 30% of American adults don't drink. That's a lot of sober people, but many of them don't drink because of their religion, and those aren't the people with which I'm likely to hang out. Then again, one could argue that my sobriety these days is rooted in Buddhism, but my buddhism is not the religious kind; not theistic, anyway.
Kabat-Zinn, Buddha, Trungpa, Rick Hanson, Peltz... Everyone has their angle, but the message is essentially the same: Presence, non-judgement, awareness, patience, compassion, practice...
Any addict (and I think Buddha was saying we are all addicts on some level) should read the first two of The Four Noble Truths and say, "Well, duh..."
https://thebuddhistcentre.com/text/four-noble-truths
The only real question is what path will work for any given individual. There is no doubt for me that daily meditation practice is changing my brain/mind despite the fact that my external situation basically hasn't changed - same job, same situations, different attitude, more balance...
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Lots of good talk here. I like!
Interesting to see reference to Full Catastrophe Living. That rang a bell . This week I was doing some work in an apartment of a woman in her mid-80 s. I saw that book by her reading chair. I'd never heard of it. She is an amazing model of good practice: diet, exercise (mental and physical), attitude. We chatted a lot. Have much in common politically. She lives on the third floor of a historic building, no elevator. I mentioned that while I was lugging the components of two stages of scaffolding up 34 stairs to her apt., in real heat and humidity, that I decided to practice some mindfulness and instead of just grunting and puffing along, and trying to imagine myself on a beach, to become aware of the feel of the foot on the step, the muscle in the leg tensing (ie, burning!) the lunchtime aroma from the downtown restaurants rolling in from the open window on the second landing...etc. She recognized a kindred spirit, which led to a little discussion of mindfulness. Who would have guessed?
She's been visiting Cuba for 30 years, and described an argument she had in her Wednesday night conversational Spanish class with an MBA prof, former Eastern Block resident, on the merits of opening up Cuba and easing trade restrictions. She said it was difficult framing policy argument in a language that she was still trying to get the hang of. So: inspiration can come from some surprising sources. And I'm always grateful when it visits.
Interesting to see reference to Full Catastrophe Living. That rang a bell . This week I was doing some work in an apartment of a woman in her mid-80 s. I saw that book by her reading chair. I'd never heard of it. She is an amazing model of good practice: diet, exercise (mental and physical), attitude. We chatted a lot. Have much in common politically. She lives on the third floor of a historic building, no elevator. I mentioned that while I was lugging the components of two stages of scaffolding up 34 stairs to her apt., in real heat and humidity, that I decided to practice some mindfulness and instead of just grunting and puffing along, and trying to imagine myself on a beach, to become aware of the feel of the foot on the step, the muscle in the leg tensing (ie, burning!) the lunchtime aroma from the downtown restaurants rolling in from the open window on the second landing...etc. She recognized a kindred spirit, which led to a little discussion of mindfulness. Who would have guessed?
She's been visiting Cuba for 30 years, and described an argument she had in her Wednesday night conversational Spanish class with an MBA prof, former Eastern Block resident, on the merits of opening up Cuba and easing trade restrictions. She said it was difficult framing policy argument in a language that she was still trying to get the hang of. So: inspiration can come from some surprising sources. And I'm always grateful when it visits.
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If you need responses and this group is quiet, do think about starting a thread in the main forum, Vet...
or, if that isn't your thing, maybe join the perennial weekender threads in the main forum?
or the Under One Year thread as well?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rt-48-a-4.html
Invite applies to any and all, btw
D
or, if that isn't your thing, maybe join the perennial weekender threads in the main forum?
or the Under One Year thread as well?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rt-48-a-4.html
Invite applies to any and all, btw
D
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: kingston ontario canada
Posts: 656
How goes it, Vet? I know that participation in this forum cycles for everyone.
I've just finished reading the end of the Dennis Lehane crime fiction novel 'World gone by'. Very compelling, kind of insightful for the genre. And actually, kind of a big fat bummer ending.
On another note: I've always wanted to ask you if you are a Vet; and if you served in 69? Just nosey.
I've just finished reading the end of the Dennis Lehane crime fiction novel 'World gone by'. Very compelling, kind of insightful for the genre. And actually, kind of a big fat bummer ending.
On another note: I've always wanted to ask you if you are a Vet; and if you served in 69? Just nosey.
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