OnawaMiniya

Lol. No need to hide under a chair That's what this forum is for. Talking and listening. And all of the wonderful things that happen within that communication.

Peace.

Ofelie

No contact feels horrible, it feels wrong for a million reasons. I hate it, it goes against everything inside me...I want to call him, beg him, drive out there and try to find him, email, text, whatever I could do, I have considered it. I hate myself right now for that. But then, then I sort of sit and think, wtf would I do if he actually showed up at the house? I sure as hell would not let him in and I think I might be strong enough to not run outside and talk to him. Because then my kids would give me those looks of utter betrayal, that I put us all in danger's way. Because how would I manage to get him back out of the house and my life if I let him in, without getting hurt, if things turned ugly, as I know they would. As I said once before, though, while no contact is super duper terribly awfully unbearably hard...ugly hard... it IS EASIER than contact. Contact with them sets you back, even if its onesided and you don't respond, any form of contact is bad...in my experience anyway. Its hard, but pulling yourself back up out of the chaos when you get pulled down by her again and nearly drowned by her insanity is harder. My mess of an Ex fiance sounds much like yours, and the whole fear of being stabbed, I get that. It seriously put goosebumps up the back of my neck to think you have been put through that. And hit for hugging or kissing or whatever it was on your list. I got a chair thrown at me for kissing him while he watched tv...because I was interrupting. Strange how that looks in black and white when I read that about myself, that I ever accepted that in my life. Yes, it is a sad peace you are living right now, I am right there with you. Its lonely, and dark in this peace. That time you are supposed to be taking to focus on you does something else at the same time. It gives you time to live normally. My, How we forget what that feels like, when we live with alcoholics. Or at least to creep towards normal. Space to give you some perspective and clarity. My example for clarity: My ex husband's (not the alcoholic ex fiance) grandfather developed alzheimers (from drinking a bottle of vodka a day) and it became quite severe as he aged into his upper 80s. His tiny little spitfire of a wife, also in her 80s, refused to put her husband in a nursing home where he should have been (thinking it was her DUTY to take care of him, in sickness and in health, etc), and ended up spending every waking moment taking care of him, day and night, for he would think he was lighting a cigarette, but was setting a napkin on fire and dropping it on the floor, would think he was in the bathroom, but would crap on the living room couch. Would walk into the garage, not turning on the light, because his mind was living another place and time, and fall and bash up his head or become combative and go after her. He was no longer in there, his mind had completely failed. At some point, it became too much for her, he fell down some stairs, was hospitalized and soon died. Though she grieved deeply for his passing, she soon found she had time to play bridge again with friends, read books she had been wanting to read, etc, things she enjoyed but had forgotten. And soon enough, it came clear to her that SO MUCH of her life had been taking care of him, and looking out for him, that it consumed her entire being and she had not spent any time actually LIVING for herself. I am saying this badly I think, but I hope I get my point across and don't look like I am bashing a poor sweet old couple, because I am not. It took some time for her to actually see how much of her life she had given up, so many of her golden years, spent futilely trying to play nurse and caretaker when it was an illness that she was not capable of handling on her own. She didn't see it, until she was out of the situation and got some clarity and distance from it. She couldn't see it clearly, she was too close and wrapped up in it. She spent over a decade trying to handle his illness, and lost so many of her golden years. Time wasted, because she was not the person who should have been his caretaker, and he would have wanted her to be enjoying her golden years, as she put it later, a few months before she died.
This is what we do, we give so much of ourselves trying to fix them or take care of them, or whatever, we lose our entire identity, though we really are not equipped to "fix" them. And we don't even realize its happening til our entire being is just centered around their sickness and drama. Distance and time will give you clarity. I hope. I think that is what no contact is for. It still feels horrible though. I keep repeating that to myself in the hopes that it actually happens. At this point, no contact is hurting badly, but my fear and dread over what contact will feel like when he rears his ugly head in person instead of email (since I am not responding) is growing...making "no contact" seem not so awful after all. Little by little I am finding I don't want to hear from him, because I like my peace better. I wonder...is the peace and calm addictive? I hope so. So while no contact is hard, it gives you time to grow stronger and gain some of yourself back and maybe before you know it, you will be saying to yourself WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING, like Madea said in Hammer's video that was posted earlier. Sorry to everyone if my post is all rambling and nonsensical. I am fighting norovirus, on top of stress and am just super tired, but my heart went out to you and I wanted to add my two cents because I am living what you are going through.

FlippedRHalo

Thank you for that post Ofelie. You're so right. Not hearing from him felt like the hardest thing ever... until I did hear from him again. It made not hearing from him seem a whole lot easier. I feel like I'm starting all over with everything again because I caved and talked to him. I shouldn't have. It's changed nothing, but it certainly did make the hurt a little deeper and set me back a few steps. He begged, pleaded, cried... but never once said he'd get the help he needs. I can't fix him. I can't fix him. He doesn't want to be fixed. He wants an emotional punching bag, a mommy and someone to clean up the messes he makes. I've helped him to be unaccountable for his actions. I let him treat me horribly and felt bad because he felt bad for doing it, so always said it was fine. I wasn't fine. It's not fine. You don't treat another human being like that. Especially one that you're supposed to love and care about.

When you love someone, you try to protect them from being hurt. If they do get hurt, you're there to help them through it. You don't cause it and then manipulate them enough so that in the end, they're apologizing for the hurt you've caused them.

Ok... feeling a bit stronger today. I needed to read what you wrote today Ofelie. You are so, so right. No contact is hard, but not nearly as hard as contact.

Ofelie

I keep wondering if No Contact should be two part. No Contact, meaning we don't reach out, and No Response, meaning we don't respond to their ********. Its two different things, really, isn't it? I got derailed from receiving a nasty email from him, that everyone pointed out that I should NOT have read, that I had the capability of just deleting, therefore protecting myself from the harm it could...and did do. It set me back, though not nearly as bad as if he showed up would. It feels wrong, so so wrong, to block them out, but its so so necessary. I am under the impression that mine is gone for good and won't be popping back up in my life, which brings a form of relief, and a bigger sense of heart tearing despair. No Contact, No Response, love yourself enough to protect yourself any way you can while you are so completely fragile.

Danae

Hi Blake,

I hope this isn't off topic, but what I see in your lists is a lot of hope. There is some nice woman out there, and eventually, when you are ready, you will be able to build a list of Pros with her.

There will be happy times at restaurants, calm walks, whatever. But there will be positive experiences you build together, and not a list of Cons that are horrifying.

I know that all you can see right now is what could have been, and what you've lost. But I'm betting that when you heal there are wonderful things in store for you.

FlippedRHalo

Absolutely agree.... it should be two part. Reading/listening to what they have to say is just as damaging (in my book) as contacting them. If I didn't read his text, I wouldn't have gone into panic mode over the "I can't live without you, I WON'T live without you" followed by the baby I love yous and the pleading desperation. It was all for him, not me. He wants what he wants and wants it more now because he thinks it's being taken away. If I gave it back, he'd throw me away again. I know this. I don't want to believe it, but it's true and I need to face it.

I have a feeling I'll be experiencing the heart tearing despair very soon (not that I haven't been feeling it already), but I truly believe that as soon as he realizes his tactics aren't working, he'll be gone and off to a new victim. This is part of the reason why I've always gone back. I hate what I go through with him, but God, the thought of him being completely gone from my life hurts. I guess we need to figure out why that is considering they've caused us a lot more pain than good. Still, until I figure it out, it kind of feels like someone is tearing off a limb. Like he's a part of my body and soul and for him to be completely gone, it sort of feels like tearing away a part of my body.

This has been the most awful roller coaster ride of emotions I've ever been on. Maybe this was the lesson I needed. I will NEVER get involved with anyone with addiction issues ever again in my life. The pain is just beyond comprehension - the pain of being together and the pain of tearing yourself away from the pain of being together.

Just a whole lot of pain.... enough for a lifetime in my book.

fluffyflea

Okay Blake, "I'm seeking help",does not equate, I'm getting help,I'm in a recovery program to deal with my issues which are blah,blah,blah and I realize that I owe you an amends for blah,blah,blah.

Until she actively is getting help all of these words are just words and manipulation.

JMHO

itsmylifenow

I made a list like this just recently myself.

It's amazing to me that all these "won't miss" items would all be gone in one felt swoop if my xabf would just stop drinking.

Then, he'd be the perfect person for me.

That's the part that sucks. A substance is changing the potential of who someone could really be...and I think we see that in them...and we have hope and faith and more hope that they will realize it and do what they need to in order to get better.

But, they don't.

And, we are stuck with a list of all these unacceptable behaviors that we've put up with for so long. And, they don't balance out against the good stuff.

I imagine this as putting the list of all the good things on one side of a scale and a big bottle of booze on the other side. I could add more good stuff to the other side, but it won't matter. That bottle of booze is as heavy as it can be...nothing's going to make the good stuff outweigh it. It's a heck of a visual for me.

So sorry you're going through this, but glad to see you're making some progress sorting it out.

Seren

This seemed like a timely 'stickie' topic to share - potential

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...potential.html

blake1989

Thank you for everything Ofelie. It has been a tough few days. Your thoughts on no contact really got through to me, and I wanted to thank you.

Yes, it is a weird simultaneous relief and heart tearing despair. That's exactly what it is. I showed my therapist the letter today. I told her it feels so dishonorable not to respond. Here is a person in pain saying she doesn't understand why I left, that she lost her best friend, and that now she's getting help. it's not that I have tons of hope for that, or I want to make another go of it. There's just no closure. My therapist asked me after reading the letter, "do you believe in exceptions?" I said yes of course. "Then this is an exception, this is extraordinary." She said she has a feeling nothing would ever be enough, no matter how I responded. When I was trying to navigate leaving that is also what was said on this forum. Honestly I'm eating for once and I no longer carry a packed bag in the trunk of my car in case the night turns ugly and I have to drive off into night, then the texts 'please come back', and I'd give in, turn around on the highway...yet we never really resolved anything. And the texts the next day 'i'm sorry for how i treated you. i'll get better'.

I guess one thing to notice is how this single missive, this single handwritten page, did to me. It destroyed me all over again. It was designed to make me feel terrible and to feel for her, because of course I do. I'm still working on feeling for myself.

Ofelie

You are welcome, its only because I am going through all of this too that I can spout what I hope are words of wisdom. I know I ramble, I can't help it, I am a writer by trade, so what can you expect. Sometimes I read back what I type and think...do I even make sense anymore? Its after being told for three years that I don't know wtf I was talking about I learned to question my own thoughts. No more of that crapola I tell you. The no contact no response does leave a gaping hole of no closure for us, and I don't know how to rectify that? I don't know how to accept it, how to move beyond it. I hate it, honestly. What do I need, a big funeral procession for him or something? I keep picturing those poor couples who lose a child to abduction and no one ever finds the body, so they have no closure and just sit and wonder for years, leaving porch lights on for a kid that is already lost to them...am I going to end up like that? Then I think, ugh, if he shows up...and each moment of every day I believe we are closer to that ugly moment because I am in full no contact and if he can't get a response he is gonna try to force one from me, like he did last time...am I gonna want the sort of closure that I'd get from it when he rears his ugly head? Underworld no, as my 11 year old would say. As the days pass, and this no contact no response thing starts to clear my head and give me peace, its also causing a growing fear. Fear, a healthy, realistic fear of a dangerously unstable person, a fear I learned to ignore. I have so many emotions going round and round in me, its just plain ridiculous. I think I would choose heart tearing despair rather than the ice cold fear.
Your therapist said what my ex mess's family told me...no matter what I did or said, nothing would ever be enough for him to boot him out of the disease and make him come back to the real world. They were right. She is right. Listen to her, she seems to know what she is talking about and I probably need to find one of my own. The two of us, you and me, we have to learn how to not give in and read this toxic stuff they send us. Maybe as the time passes and these emails or letters get further apart, as we slowly heal bit by bit, maybe they will derail us less and less...and for briefer amounts of time? I told someone else on here I will white knuckle through No contact with them..and you.
But Blake...do me one favor? Go eat a massive cheeseburger or something really tasty and sumptuous. You deserve it.