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Old 04-25-2011, 04:21 PM
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Cyranoak- I am in the process of getting divorced. I just "decided" that for good last week and much as I'd like to snap my fingers and have it be done and over, it's not. The good news is that while I let it get to me for a bit on Sat, I am over it, doing my own thing and not going to get off the track I am on. I know he will try but I am determined and know what my plan is.

Sandrawg- My brother who works with him was telling me yesterday that when he comes into a room of their mutual colleagues at work now (my AH that is) he makes farting noises or says something juvenile and most people laugh but there are a few people who have known him for a long time who have spoken separately and are uncomfortable about what a different person/immature idiot he's turned into at work.
And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:23 PM
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I know you think I'm harsh, but I just want to say one more thing. You need to stop feeling sorry for him.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:34 PM
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Suki.

I know you think I'm harsh,
Huh? I'm confused bc I can't recall saying this to you or thinking it... What this reads like is kind of like the mind reading I get from my AH. When with regard to this issue did I say that? I'm genuinely confused... I am pretty sure I posted something last week saying I appreciated the direct advice/remarks and that even if I don't like it in the moment, there are things I need to hear-- I can find the link if you want? I'm sorry you feel I think you are harsh. That's not a reflection of what I actually think or feel though so maybe it's something you are worried about?

but I just want to say one more thing. You need to stop feeling sorry for him.
Ummmm, I don't. If it comes off that way I understand your remark above and I'd agree. I feel sad that he is throwing away a career, his life, his family but it's his call. I don't feel sorry for him. If I have mis-stated what I think/feel, I hope this clears it up... I think that hearing how he's gone from being respected at work to being seen as a liability is sad and whether he were my spouse or not I'd feel sad that someone had done that to themself. But I don't think (for me at least) that that's the same as feeling sorry for him.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:37 PM
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why would you want to "save him from embarrassing himself further"???? didn't he do actual physical harm to you at one point??? (if i have the wrong person please excuse my error). why do you care if he makes fart noises at work? why would you even dream of telling him what YOU think he is doing wrong????

you put a lot of energy into his issues...you have to figure out why you feel the need to do this....give him enough rope and he'll hang himself....but don't get involved with his problems.

you are going to have separate lives...you need to live your own. you are joined by the kids, and their welfare. set a good example.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:38 PM
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And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..

There's where I got the idea.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further
This is the definition of codependence.

I wanted to save my AH from:
Embarrassing himself
Embarrassing me
Drinking himself to death
Financial ruin
Legal consequences

And on and on and on.

I thought pretty highly of myself to envision that I was his savior. Ha. Turns out it took all I could muster to save myself. Guess I wasn't as powerful as I thought.

Life's a lot easier since I hung up the superhero cape.

L
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:51 PM
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And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..

There's where I got the idea.
Okay- match point. You win. I am still confused about "I know you think I am harsh" though...

My whole point is that I DON'T see myself as needing to save him anymore-- I know it's unhealthy and I won't do it. The BUT and all that preceded that sentence and came after sort of explained that... If you want to find "proof" to prove a point that's fine but my point is that I know where my head is at and there's nothing I am thinking or feeling that has me worried about fixing or saving him anymore....

I guess if you read what I am saying as a whole you'd see the bigger picture but I am getting a bit into territory of defending myself and I'm not interested in doing that.

Saying that I would LIKE to but have NO INTENTION of keeping my H from embarrassing himself further doesn't sound co-dependent to me. It sounds like someone who is seeing what my knee jerk rxn is and recognizing it's unhealthy and sharing that.

Is there really anyone here who sees their spouse destroying their professional reputation and doesn't feel a twinge of sorrow for what that person is doing to themself?
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:56 PM
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[QUOTE=Fandy;2947372]why would you want to "save him from embarrassing himself further"????


Ummmm because I am a human being who gets no joy out of seeing people make fools of themselves?

Maybe my choice of words was poor. My sentiment was that I don't feel HAPPY knowing that he's making a fool of himself and wish he weren't but I can't do a damn thing about it. Is that clearer?

you put a lot of energy into his issues...you have to figure out why you feel the need to do this....give him enough rope and he'll hang himself....but don't get involved with his problems.
Well I guess I disagree. I want my kids to have a father in their life and I don't want to give him enough rope to hang himself. I want to focus on me being healthy and not keep doing what I'd done for a long time and whether any of you see that that's changed or not, I know it has.

you are going to have separate lives...you need to live your own. you are joined by the kids, and their welfare. set a good example.
Where am I not setting a good example? I am kind of confused here...
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
Is there really anyone here who sees their spouse destroying their professional reputation and doesn't feel a twinge of sorrow for what that person is doing to themself?
Yes.

I realized that it was pretty self-righteous of me to determine that he was living his life "wrong." Who am I to say what is right or wrong for someone else? It's not my place to judge others or to feel pity for them based on them not living up to my standards of conduct.

My place is to determine who I want in my life based on my principles and values. Not to determine how someone else should conduct their life. We each have our own path.

L
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
Yes.

I realized that it was pretty self-righteous of me to determine that he was living his life "wrong." Who am I to say what is right or wrong for someone else? It's not my place to judge others or to feel pity for them based on them not living up to my standards of conduct.

My place is to determine who I want in my life based on my principles and values. Not to determine how someone else should conduct their life. We each have our own path.

L
I appreciate your perspective on this. Mine's a bit different. I have seen my AH go from being proud of himself for being well respected at work, being proud of the work he did, working hard at it and feeling good for doing so to acting like he doesn't care, having an AP class taken away and has decided that being the "class clown" is a good way to mask embarrassment at what he knows he's thrown away at work. I feel badly that this addiction of his has taken a lot of things he used to love and be proud of away from him. It's not co-dependent or judgemental in my book to care. The nice thing about life though is that we can all see things differently and approach situations differently. I know that I can care about this and him and still know that it's his issue to solve. For a long time I couldn't do the latter part. I think it's called detaching with love. It's not judging what is best for him when it's his life and the things he chose and the things he loved and was proud of that I am sad to see him throwing away. He's throwing away things he chose that made him happy at one time and that's what is sad... The further removed from real life he gets, the more he tosses more things aside. If caring about that from afar without trying to fix it makes me bad then I'll take it. That's just compassion in my world.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:11 PM
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WTBH, you not only defend yourself, you defend him. You are still trying to play fair and he is NOT playing fair and has no intention of playing fair. You still allow him to corral you into discussions. Stop discussing things with him. Get a lawyer and let HIM do the discussing. I still say that you are making this a lot harder than it has to be. If your main concern is your children, and I believe it is, then become the mama bear and do whatever is necessary to protect them. Bottom line...get an attorney and stop discussing things with your husband, discuss them with your attorney.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:21 PM
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by setting an example for your kids, I meant you are showing them how to be very passive...How would you feel if later on your daughter got involved with this same type of marriage or relationship? How would you feel if someone physically harmed her?

didn't you let him move back in with you last week by being manipulative? he doesn't give you an iota of respect.

I think compassion and empathy should be reserved for those who also practice it.....(I learned the hard way not to be my X's doormat)
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:24 PM
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In my world, detaching with love includes respecting another person's choices, whether I agree with them or not. There is a big difference between compassion and pity.

L
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
WTBH, you not only defend yourself, you defend him. You are still trying to play fair and he is NOT playing fair and has no intention of playing fair. You still allow him to corral you into discussions. Stop discussing things with him. Get a lawyer and let HIM do the discussing. I still say that you are making this a lot harder than it has to be. If your main concern is your children, and I believe it is, then become the mama bear and do whatever is necessary to protect them. Bottom line...get an attorney and stop discussing things with your husband, discuss them with your attorney.
I am defending him? I didn't think so. And yes I know that Sat was ridiculous. That was my point in posting. I SEE that it was my "relapse" of getting into a conversation at all with him. I wasn't posting this to say "hey look at how great this was that I did this". It was me saying "ugh, one step back but at least I'm seeing it and extracated myself from it". I came here instead of talking to him and got it all out...

I spoke to a family lawyer today. I have no money to pay a lawyer right now - quite literally, none. So I either need to wait until I find a job to file or do it on my own. I don't think doing it on my own is a wise move so AH is moving out (funded by his parents) and we will live separately until I have a job and then I will file.

I will continue to cross paths with him bc of the girls and frankly each time he acts like an idiot it just gives me more info for my journal which I have been told will be very useful in terms of expressing lingering concerns about unsupervised visitation with the girls...

I probably should have come here ages ago so that you'd have seen how bad things were and how stuck I had myself. To you this might look like a lack of progress or not fast enough or good enough but for me this is moving fwd as best I can right now.

Before we divorce we need to figure out what to do with our house. We are meeting with a realtor later this week to talk about listing it or a short sale... There's a lot of logistics involved and some I can deal with without a lawyer. If AH and I can agree to sell the house, I will move to my mom's with the girls, he will rent whatever he rents with his parents money and that is step one... I am not going to divorce him while I am unemployed bc that opens the door way too wide for him to say that he's the one the girls should live with since I have no way to support them. There's a lot more at play here than just "file and be done".

I appreciate your concern that I am making this harder than I need to and I will think about that... but I think that you being unaware of all the things at play and not being in my shoes makes it easier to see it more simplistically than it is...

Losing my job threw a monkey wrench in my plans and so I am regrouping and trying to sort out the past course of action that keeps me being the stable custodial parent and doesn't leave me with a house I can't afford alone...
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
In my world, detaching with love includes respecting another person's choices, whether I agree with them or not. There is a big difference between compassion and pity.
L

I agree and I have compassion, not pity. Seems to me that you are judging my choice to have compassion for him, no?

I didn't say I didn't respect his chocies. I neither respect nor don't respect his choices. I see him throwing away things he's worked hard for and don't see that as a choice he is making but rather a result of addiction. I wouldn't want to be battling the addiction he is and I have compassion for all that it is taking from him. Pity would be me continuing to try and fix him or save him and I am doing neither.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:31 PM
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Is he doing anything, I mean really doing anything about his "addiction?" Some people are just jerks, whether they have an addiction or not. Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and you still have an asshat.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:31 PM
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I thought you had a new job lined up in your previous school in Mass and were moving????? did that fall through???

or if I'm confusing you with someone else, I apologize....it's difficult for me to remember who is who without an avatar.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:34 PM
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by setting an example for your kids, I meant you are showing them how to be very passive...How would you feel if later on your daughter got involved with this same type of marriage or relationship? How would you feel if someone physically harmed her?


Hmmm, I don't see it that way. I have been very passive for a long time but I am not anymore. The girls are seeing me actively tell him that he is not to talk to me X way and hear me ask him to leave if he can't stop. There are a lot of things that I do, don't do, say, don't accept, stand up for that I never did. I don't want the girls seeing this marriage as an ex of what they aspire to and I am removing myself from it as fast as I can. In the meantime they are seeing me stand up for myself and speak up and be calm but direct and that's not passive at all.

didn't you let him move back in with you last week by being manipulative? he doesn't give you an iota of respect.


Yup, I did. I have nothing legal saying he can't sleep here and after I was released from the hospital it was with the condition that I not be here alone and so while he weaseled his way in, I am currently not seeing him anymore than I was when he was sleeping elsewhere... He is here after 10 each night and was around this Sat only after the girls T appt.

I think compassion and empathy should be reserved for those who also practice it.....(I learned the hard way not to be my X's doormat)


I don't believe this but that's just me... I think that everyone deserves compassion. I am not being a doormat at all. I used to think that compassion and caring meant taking whatever he dished but now I have compassion but I don't hesitate to tell him what I won't tolerate and to stick to my boundaries...
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:37 PM
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I'm not judging you for having compassion. (Although I still think it's more like pity.) What I'm trying to point out is that you are so very wrapped up in him, his choices, his addiction, what he's throwing away, etc. And it's obvious to me that all these "detached" conversations you keep having with him are still attempts to get him to "see the light." Albeit in new, more enlightened ways.

I know you think I have no idea what it's like. What your life was like before, what it's like now, all the complications you face. But, I recognize your behavior because it was my behavior approximately 5 years ago.

You are still clinging to the hope that he will "get it." You still think you can change him. I hope for you that you reach acceptance and letting go one day soon. Because even though you are going through the motions, you haven't let go. But, I promise you it will be a huge relief when you do.

They say everything we codependents let go of has claw marks all over it.........

L
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
Is he doing anything, I mean really doing anything about his "addiction?" Some people are just jerks, whether they have an addiction or not. Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and you still have an asshat.
I have no idea if he is doing anything or not. What he tells me (I do not ask) is that he is attending aa nightly, and has outpatient rehab 2 days a week.

I haven't worried or paid attention to his meeting schedule or whatever he might want to tell me about how much he is changing in a few weeks. I told him I didn't want to hear about it and would base what I thought on actions. That was the end of that conversation.

I don't think alcohol is the whole issue with him. I think he is abusive and has an attitude about women and marriage he adopted from his parents (dad bossed everyone around and mom told everyone to do whatever dad said and appeased him silently) and unless he does some miracle changing, he's likely to turn into the 2011 version of his dad pretty soon.
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