more of the same
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
I don't believe there is any one, or even two or three, patterns related to an alcoholic and his/her particular "style" of drinking.
Let's say that he did NOT consume more than the one beer over those days. So what?
That's only means that he does not have a daily habit. I don't know if you were making a point with that, but I just don't think it matters one whit
Let's say that he did NOT consume more than the one beer over those days. So what?
That's only means that he does not have a daily habit. I don't know if you were making a point with that, but I just don't think it matters one whit
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Yah. I'm not saying he doesn't have a problem. I'm just saying I can't make heads or tails of it so I am not going to spend my time tripping on it or playing detective. I have enough other issues to work with! 
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
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A couple of things jumped out of the text in your post:
Your user name is wifeofadrinker but you don't know if your husband is an alcoholic. The drinking you described over the recent weekend did not sound like heavy drinker, a problem drinker, or an alcoholic to me. It sounded like normal, responsible drinking to me.
When has driving stopped an alcoholic from drinking?
I would have to echo the comments of others here that you need to make an assessment of that. As long as you aren't sure, or as long as you have incorrectly labelled him an alcoholic when he may not be one, you will waste a lot of time and grief not being able to get to the bottom of what your problem actually is.
What kind of behavior made you think your husband is an alcoholic?
Your user name is wifeofadrinker but you don't know if your husband is an alcoholic. The drinking you described over the recent weekend did not sound like heavy drinker, a problem drinker, or an alcoholic to me. It sounded like normal, responsible drinking to me.
When has driving stopped an alcoholic from drinking?
I would have to echo the comments of others here that you need to make an assessment of that. As long as you aren't sure, or as long as you have incorrectly labelled him an alcoholic when he may not be one, you will waste a lot of time and grief not being able to get to the bottom of what your problem actually is.
What kind of behavior made you think your husband is an alcoholic?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
apologies in advance to those of you that know my story by heart!
Littlefish -
1. My husband has hidden his alcohol for years (I'd find it periodically in weird places).
2. He drank in front of me regularly (there were usually 3-4 bottles of wine in the house - in the open and he drank a few glasses most nights),
3. He had trouble sleeping and a number of times I woke up and went to find him and he was drinking
4. He was sneaky about his drinking - he would put his glass on the floor or behind something if I came in the room
5. He admitted (years ago to his sister) he felt like he might have a drinking problem
6. His sister and mom thought his behavior was problematic (buying lots of beer, waiting till everyone went to sleep to drink it alone)
7. when we met he was a regular at the bars
8. 5 months ago I found 16 empties from 7 days (and I hadn't seen him drink all that)
9. I also found wine in a to go coffee cup he takes to work - he denied, then later minimized that
10. He was angry and defiant when I confronted him, threatened to divorce, was a wreck (angry, sad, defensive, depressed) for 4 months-ish after that
11. He has lied before about quitting smoking and other stupid stuff
12. He lied about hiding his alcohol in the new house we are in (I unpacked his box of wine, then it "disappeared"). He says he "can't remember" that.
13. He said he would quit then changed his story and said he wouldn't
Now he's removed all the alcohol and is acting sane again.
Good luck figuring it all out. I can't.
Littlefish -
1. My husband has hidden his alcohol for years (I'd find it periodically in weird places).
2. He drank in front of me regularly (there were usually 3-4 bottles of wine in the house - in the open and he drank a few glasses most nights),
3. He had trouble sleeping and a number of times I woke up and went to find him and he was drinking
4. He was sneaky about his drinking - he would put his glass on the floor or behind something if I came in the room
5. He admitted (years ago to his sister) he felt like he might have a drinking problem
6. His sister and mom thought his behavior was problematic (buying lots of beer, waiting till everyone went to sleep to drink it alone)
7. when we met he was a regular at the bars
8. 5 months ago I found 16 empties from 7 days (and I hadn't seen him drink all that)
9. I also found wine in a to go coffee cup he takes to work - he denied, then later minimized that
10. He was angry and defiant when I confronted him, threatened to divorce, was a wreck (angry, sad, defensive, depressed) for 4 months-ish after that
11. He has lied before about quitting smoking and other stupid stuff
12. He lied about hiding his alcohol in the new house we are in (I unpacked his box of wine, then it "disappeared"). He says he "can't remember" that.
13. He said he would quit then changed his story and said he wouldn't
Now he's removed all the alcohol and is acting sane again.
Good luck figuring it all out. I can't.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker 
He later told me a story about a friend of his that divorced her angry, drinking husband and two years later he went to her house and killed her. They just went to the funeral.
Ugh. He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
Ugh. He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
XAH was oh, sooooooo upset. He'd never do anything like that, he'd never even think of doing anything like that. He'd never been violent to a woman ever. How could I? Oh, what a victim he was,
Well, 15 months later, in another screaming fit, he shoved me against the refrigerator. That was the end for us.
But I have no doubt if I had listened to his suddenly reasonable pleading, 'Please, Bucyn, don't do this, please don't do this" while I was dialing 911, that sooner or later he would have smacked me, then kicked me (like he kicked his kid), and finally would have ended up beating me.
I knew he was capable of violence against me in July 2008. He was sure he wasn't. I proved to be correct.
People who are out of control in one area of their lives, eventually get out of control in all areas of their lives.
I've shared before that I have had two alkie husbands. I left my first one on Halloween 1996. In April 2001 I got a visit at the front door from the police; it appeared my 1XAH had had a fight with his girlfriend and had somehow thought it had something to do with me and they didn't know where he was, but wanted to warn me to be careful.
Ummm...okay.
It turned out that my 1XAH went in a different direction with his frenzy than come after me. Apparently he'd been drunk, had a fight with his GF, it was her house, so she threw him out, he refused to leave, so she called 911 to get the drunken man out of her house, and while she was on the phone with them, he picked up a knife and slashed his own throat. Then he jumped in a car and drove off. How any of this involved me 5 years after the break up is beyond me, I'm sure somehow my name came up since the GF told the police he was coming to my house, but i was glad i'd been given a head's up.
Turned out later, he stopped at an ATM, then check into a motel and slept it off. They found him a couple days later and baker acted him. His throat wound was obviously superficial.
Messed up people desperate for a source of enablement, will reach back through everyone they know until they find someone who will rescue them from the problems they've made for themselves. As they run out of people accessible in their current lives, they reach back into their pasts looking for scapegoats and rescuers.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
He said that it was over.
He said that it was over.
Now, truthfully, I've never ever thought about killing him--ever, and I wasn't offended at all; I was amused. How stupid and paranoid. Surely even he didn't believe that crap.
Your sharing your fear with your husband is not 'AWFUL', it's normal. Normal wives share their fears with their normal husbands. You were not wrong to share that with anyone. He is wrong to judge you on it, though.
And he is waaaaaaaay off base saying that the ONLY reason someone would say that is because they hated their husband. No, that's NOT the only reason someone would say that. In fact, there are probably thousands of reasons someone would say that, and he's not the arbiteur of why people say what in general, and he's certainly not the expert on why you would say what you say. In fact, of the two of you, I would say, YOU'd be the expert on why you said what you said. And since you didn't say it out of hatred for him, or because you wanted to hurt him, he is just flat out wrong.
It's not his job to tell you how you feel or what your motivations are. That's your job to tell him...which you did.
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
He said that it was over.
He said that it was over.
Isn't this what AA calls 'stinkn thinkn'?
He either wants it to be over which is why he's designing all roads leading to divorce court, or he subtly threatening you: if you don't stop talking about these things (your concerns and needs), he's going to leave you. You are supposed to be panicked into submission. Or he's got some other mindfock game going on. But he's not playing straight with you and not coming from a place of loving kindness--that's for sure.
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
wifeof a drinker:
There are indeed some odd things on your list! But what strikes me about the list is it is mostly about the physical presence of liquor, counting empties, finding empties....what others say about his drinking. What is missing (for me) from the list is: how it affects his behavior?
What does he do that makes you think he is drinking?
There are indeed some odd things on your list! But what strikes me about the list is it is mostly about the physical presence of liquor, counting empties, finding empties....what others say about his drinking. What is missing (for me) from the list is: how it affects his behavior?
What does he do that makes you think he is drinking?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Little fish - nothing.
I haven't seen him drunk in years.
When I try to discuss a variety of sensitive topics (alcohol included), he gets grumpy/angry/depressed/defensive/negative, but it doesn't seem alcohol related (that I know of).
Even when he said he would quit (I left a few times during that time), there was less in our home liquor cabinet, so I know he was drinking then.
One time, he added liquor to his hot chocolate and I asked him why he did that when he said he had quit, he pitched a fit, stomped out of the bedroom, threw the cup in the sink, cursed me under his breath in the living room and gave me the silent treatment for the rest of the night.
So, it's not inconsequential, but I can't say what is really happening.
His behavior was great (although he tends toward depression) until I confronted him about alcohol. He then was miserable to be around for months. The more I tried to discuss anything the more grumpy, negative, fatalistic, etc. he got. It was directly related to me pushing him to talk about it.
I finally gave up trying to talk about it and he's back to being pretty fun to be around.
Do I not belong here?
I can't say.
I've learned a lot.
I've learned about codependency (mine, and his, actually) and how I have been wanting things I can't have from him.
I've pulled the blinders off about some serious issues of communication we have and my serious concerns about his ability to handle stress with maturity or openness or self control.
It's weird. At this point, all that overshadows my concerns about alcohol.
I haven't seen him drunk in years.
When I try to discuss a variety of sensitive topics (alcohol included), he gets grumpy/angry/depressed/defensive/negative, but it doesn't seem alcohol related (that I know of).
Even when he said he would quit (I left a few times during that time), there was less in our home liquor cabinet, so I know he was drinking then.
One time, he added liquor to his hot chocolate and I asked him why he did that when he said he had quit, he pitched a fit, stomped out of the bedroom, threw the cup in the sink, cursed me under his breath in the living room and gave me the silent treatment for the rest of the night.
So, it's not inconsequential, but I can't say what is really happening.
His behavior was great (although he tends toward depression) until I confronted him about alcohol. He then was miserable to be around for months. The more I tried to discuss anything the more grumpy, negative, fatalistic, etc. he got. It was directly related to me pushing him to talk about it.
I finally gave up trying to talk about it and he's back to being pretty fun to be around.
Do I not belong here?
I can't say.
I've learned a lot.
I've learned about codependency (mine, and his, actually) and how I have been wanting things I can't have from him.
I've pulled the blinders off about some serious issues of communication we have and my serious concerns about his ability to handle stress with maturity or openness or self control.
It's weird. At this point, all that overshadows my concerns about alcohol.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Of course you belong here. And, in a strange way, you are way ahead because of the circumstances. I think most people (me, for sure) started out thinking that if we could just get them to stop drinking, everything would be fine. So many times I have read posts on this board from people whose spouse stopped drinking and the frustration that the behavior hasn't changed. Since you don't even know for sure whether he's drinking or not most of the time, you don't subscribe to that belief. Yay.
It's always about the behavior. And about the belief that WE can somehow change THEIR behavior. Your husband is behaving like an alcoholic, whether he actually is one or not. Figuring out whether that behavior is acceptable to you is the issue for you to figure out. (Maybe a name change is in order, though, lol.)
L
It's always about the behavior. And about the belief that WE can somehow change THEIR behavior. Your husband is behaving like an alcoholic, whether he actually is one or not. Figuring out whether that behavior is acceptable to you is the issue for you to figure out. (Maybe a name change is in order, though, lol.)
L
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
LTD has put it perfectly.
If the behavior and actions cause trouble, abuse, etc, it doesn't matter much whether it is due to alcohol, drugs, sniffing socks or a change in weather.......if it sucks, it sucks.
If someone's behavior, is making my life and relationship with them, unpleasant, miserable, full of trauma or whatever, then it is up to me to say so, and if I have to, get out of the way.
It is up to them to take any necessary action to change their behavior, not me.
Have heard it said "oh, George is awful when he's drinking, gets nasty, nags, and does it all his way. When he's sober he is a ***** cat."
Well, I have seen George both drinking and sober, and yep...he is a bombastic, boring, know-it-all, nagging and fault finding pain in the rear.
Sober, he is all the above but just toned down a bit....not so much a ***** cat, as still a tiger, just with his claws held in.
It isn't George who has radically changed at all, it was his wife's perception that drinking caused him to be very unpleasant.....so she blamed the alcohol. I guess it was better for her than admitting he was just a jerk normally.
I know with my RABF, that the tiger is under control right now, but if something gets up his nostrils, he can show he is annoyed.....if he had a few beers under his belt, and tiger is out of the cage, he isn't just annoyed...you see the claws and hear the roars for miles.
Alcohol doesn't give them the bad temper, aggression, cheating, lying, fighting genes.
Those are already there, part of the persona, just dormant and under control usually, like the tiger in the cage.
Alcohol just unlocks the cage door, takes off the controls and inhibitions, and out tiger comes.
I sometimes wonder if blaming the booze isn't both the A and their SO's, using it as the scapegoat, and blaming everything wrong on it, because it is easier that way.
Just a perception of mine, but have noticed it over 20 years and wondered.
God bless
If the behavior and actions cause trouble, abuse, etc, it doesn't matter much whether it is due to alcohol, drugs, sniffing socks or a change in weather.......if it sucks, it sucks.
If someone's behavior, is making my life and relationship with them, unpleasant, miserable, full of trauma or whatever, then it is up to me to say so, and if I have to, get out of the way.
It is up to them to take any necessary action to change their behavior, not me.
Have heard it said "oh, George is awful when he's drinking, gets nasty, nags, and does it all his way. When he's sober he is a ***** cat."
Well, I have seen George both drinking and sober, and yep...he is a bombastic, boring, know-it-all, nagging and fault finding pain in the rear.
Sober, he is all the above but just toned down a bit....not so much a ***** cat, as still a tiger, just with his claws held in.
It isn't George who has radically changed at all, it was his wife's perception that drinking caused him to be very unpleasant.....so she blamed the alcohol. I guess it was better for her than admitting he was just a jerk normally.
I know with my RABF, that the tiger is under control right now, but if something gets up his nostrils, he can show he is annoyed.....if he had a few beers under his belt, and tiger is out of the cage, he isn't just annoyed...you see the claws and hear the roars for miles.
Alcohol doesn't give them the bad temper, aggression, cheating, lying, fighting genes.
Those are already there, part of the persona, just dormant and under control usually, like the tiger in the cage.
Alcohol just unlocks the cage door, takes off the controls and inhibitions, and out tiger comes.
I sometimes wonder if blaming the booze isn't both the A and their SO's, using it as the scapegoat, and blaming everything wrong on it, because it is easier that way.
Just a perception of mine, but have noticed it over 20 years and wondered.
God bless
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Wifeofadrinker of course you belong here!
The only thing I would have to say is that if you have pegged him as an alcoholic and he isn't one, you are going to give yourself lots of extra headaches trying to add non-existing problems to your mix of problems.
Is it possible that maybe you come from a background of really strict intolerance of alcohol where even "normal" intake would be considered abnormal? That is my imagination and conjecture so please don't take it as an assumption.
I am a recovering alcoholic and that is why I am asking you these questions.
If you haven't seen your husband drunk in years, man, lots of ladies and men here would yearn to see that.
So there was "less" in the liquor cabinet? sheesh, with me around, there was nothing left in the liquor cabinet after a couple of days. Nothing. I drank it all up. A fifth in one day? phhhhttt.
The only thing I would have to say is that if you have pegged him as an alcoholic and he isn't one, you are going to give yourself lots of extra headaches trying to add non-existing problems to your mix of problems.
Is it possible that maybe you come from a background of really strict intolerance of alcohol where even "normal" intake would be considered abnormal? That is my imagination and conjecture so please don't take it as an assumption.
I am a recovering alcoholic and that is why I am asking you these questions.
If you haven't seen your husband drunk in years, man, lots of ladies and men here would yearn to see that.
So there was "less" in the liquor cabinet? sheesh, with me around, there was nothing left in the liquor cabinet after a couple of days. Nothing. I drank it all up. A fifth in one day? phhhhttt.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Littlefish,
I don't think wife has "pegged her husband as an alcoholic." In fact, she seems to me a bit puzzled about that particular subject in regard to him. Maybe reading some of her prior posts would help.
More to the point. His behavior troubles her. Whether his behavior is caused by drinking is really not the point.
L
I don't think wife has "pegged her husband as an alcoholic." In fact, she seems to me a bit puzzled about that particular subject in regard to him. Maybe reading some of her prior posts would help.
More to the point. His behavior troubles her. Whether his behavior is caused by drinking is really not the point.
L
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Sorry, I was being overly pedantic and thinking that this is a forum devoted to people who are addicted, alcoholic or codependent or enablers and codependent to addicts and alcoholics and we focus on those issues. Sorry for the pedantism! I will bow out now and stop being pedantic.
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