more of the same
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more of the same
I am a broken record, I think. Growing takes time, I guess. I think you will tell me the same thing, but I think I need to hear it again.
Went to the therapist alone this time.
My husband was busy.
The therapist said there are some people that could be okay partners, but maybe shouldn't be raising kids.
I'm not sure if that's true. I told him I thought you'all would say if they can't treat your kids right, why should an adult put up with it?
He disagrees...
He said I had to decide whether I really wanted kids and let that help me decide if I should stay. I told him more intellectualizing was not what I needed, and besides, leaving him doesn't guarantee me kids anyway (I'll be 37 in Nov).
Anyway,
He later told me a story about a friend of his that divorced her angry, drinking husband and two years later he went to her house and killed her. They just went to the funeral.
Ugh.
He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
Umm...thanks?
He said I should try to communicate about my fears of my husband's temper/shut down/upset freaking our future (or not) unborn kids out.
I told him my husband totally wouldn't be able to handle it.
But I go home and try (why? more wishful thinking?)
I shared with him about therapy and said I realized I had a lot of fears and I feared if we had kids, they would push his buttons FAR HARDER than I had and he would get that upset/shut down/depressed etc. around them.
Surprisingly, we talked all the way through this conversation.
I had a healthy observational dialogue going on internally. I calmed myself a number of times (it wasn't too hard! I'm getting better!)
He stayed relatively calm.
He said the thought my sharing that fear was AWFUL. That not only would he never SAY something like that, he would never THINK something like that. That the ONLY reason someone would say something like that was because they hated their partner and wanted to hurt them.
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
He said that it was over.
I have heard him say that in the last 4 months and I don't buy he means it...
and if I want a stronger message of 'don't talk about this', I couldn't invent one.
I said it mattered whether I was right on thinking his upset was uncontrolled and inappropriate. He said it didn't. That seems a cop out to me. He did talk about how he was raised by a mean person and I MIGHT be right, but then he is a terrible person anyway and I should go have kids with someone else.
He said he thought I had worked all this out before marrying him.
I said normal people grow and change. They have needs and wants that come up and they discuss them. They have fears come up and they discuss them.
He said not like the ones I have brought up (wanting to talk more about sex, money, problems and being afraid of his drinking and moods/upsets).
So, it ended with me saying, "Do you really mean it when you say it should be over?"
His response, "Is that what you want?"
OMG are we two codies!! Wow!
So, I can hear y'all saying why can't I get it that I cannot talk to this man. I am beating a dead horse.
Am I right about normal people sharing wants and fears or are mine so cruel? (It sounds a little silly even asking that...)
Is it all just another distraction technique?
I was thinking through that he might leave me last night, but upon reflection, I think this will die down and nothing come of it...I think it might be just more of the same.
You think?
Went to the therapist alone this time.
My husband was busy.
The therapist said there are some people that could be okay partners, but maybe shouldn't be raising kids.
I'm not sure if that's true. I told him I thought you'all would say if they can't treat your kids right, why should an adult put up with it?
He disagrees...
He said I had to decide whether I really wanted kids and let that help me decide if I should stay. I told him more intellectualizing was not what I needed, and besides, leaving him doesn't guarantee me kids anyway (I'll be 37 in Nov).
Anyway,
He later told me a story about a friend of his that divorced her angry, drinking husband and two years later he went to her house and killed her. They just went to the funeral.
Ugh.
He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
Umm...thanks?
He said I should try to communicate about my fears of my husband's temper/shut down/upset freaking our future (or not) unborn kids out.
I told him my husband totally wouldn't be able to handle it.
But I go home and try (why? more wishful thinking?)
I shared with him about therapy and said I realized I had a lot of fears and I feared if we had kids, they would push his buttons FAR HARDER than I had and he would get that upset/shut down/depressed etc. around them.
Surprisingly, we talked all the way through this conversation.
I had a healthy observational dialogue going on internally. I calmed myself a number of times (it wasn't too hard! I'm getting better!)
He stayed relatively calm.
He said the thought my sharing that fear was AWFUL. That not only would he never SAY something like that, he would never THINK something like that. That the ONLY reason someone would say something like that was because they hated their partner and wanted to hurt them.
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
He said that it was over.
I have heard him say that in the last 4 months and I don't buy he means it...
and if I want a stronger message of 'don't talk about this', I couldn't invent one.
I said it mattered whether I was right on thinking his upset was uncontrolled and inappropriate. He said it didn't. That seems a cop out to me. He did talk about how he was raised by a mean person and I MIGHT be right, but then he is a terrible person anyway and I should go have kids with someone else.
He said he thought I had worked all this out before marrying him.
I said normal people grow and change. They have needs and wants that come up and they discuss them. They have fears come up and they discuss them.
He said not like the ones I have brought up (wanting to talk more about sex, money, problems and being afraid of his drinking and moods/upsets).
So, it ended with me saying, "Do you really mean it when you say it should be over?"
His response, "Is that what you want?"
OMG are we two codies!! Wow!
So, I can hear y'all saying why can't I get it that I cannot talk to this man. I am beating a dead horse.
Am I right about normal people sharing wants and fears or are mine so cruel? (It sounds a little silly even asking that...)
Is it all just another distraction technique?
I was thinking through that he might leave me last night, but upon reflection, I think this will die down and nothing come of it...I think it might be just more of the same.
You think?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
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I remember going in circles in my head over 'expecting certain things from a husband.' I kept telling myself that it was completely normal and acceptable to expect certain things in a marriage. And I was right.
What I finally figured out was that I was expecting those things from him. He was my husband, therefore, I expected certain things from him. Things I wanted in a husband. Those things were the normal and right things for me. They were not the normal and right things for him. The role and the person didn't match. It was up to me to change my expectations for the role or remove him from it.
L
What I finally figured out was that I was expecting those things from him. He was my husband, therefore, I expected certain things from him. Things I wanted in a husband. Those things were the normal and right things for me. They were not the normal and right things for him. The role and the person didn't match. It was up to me to change my expectations for the role or remove him from it.
L
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hey Wife!
Hugs for all this latest angst and introspection.....a lot to think about, certainly.
I don't know if anyone else will notice this, but it really stood out to me. Your therapist seems to be suggesting that you stay with your husband so that you don't get killed? To me, that's a deal breaker with the therapist. IMHO I find this to be COMPLETELY irresponsible!
You have made so much progress lately! Keep up the great work!!! Remember, at your own pace.....
Hugs, HG
Hugs for all this latest angst and introspection.....a lot to think about, certainly.
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker 
Anyway,
He later told me a story about a friend of his that divorced her angry, drinking husband and two years later he went to her house and killed her. They just went to the funeral.
Ugh.
He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
Umm...thanks?
He later told me a story about a friend of his that divorced her angry, drinking husband and two years later he went to her house and killed her. They just went to the funeral.
Ugh.
He said it was just something to keep in mind - that she never thought he'd be violent.
Umm...thanks?
You have made so much progress lately! Keep up the great work!!! Remember, at your own pace.....
Hugs, HG
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I think LTD is right on the money.
It also occurs to me that you are expecting, or hoping for, therapy/counseling type progress from a man in active addiction. It is my belief that an active addict is just not open to relationship work. If he refuses to enter recovery then there is no hope that he can work on this relationship because he is not available for one.
My counselor said many times that she felt all our relationship problems were very fixable. There were no deal breakers or fixed barriers that marriage counseling couldn't fix (and you can believe my xah drove that home incessantly). He conveniently ignored the last part though. She refused to do marriage counseling when one partner was in active addiction. He was not available to work on a relationship because he would be listening to the voice in his head called alcohol. That voice pulls him in the opposite direction and nothing is louder or more persistent then the voice of addiction. Not even me and I'm persistent - 16 years worth of persistent to be exact.
It also occurs to me that you are expecting, or hoping for, therapy/counseling type progress from a man in active addiction. It is my belief that an active addict is just not open to relationship work. If he refuses to enter recovery then there is no hope that he can work on this relationship because he is not available for one.
My counselor said many times that she felt all our relationship problems were very fixable. There were no deal breakers or fixed barriers that marriage counseling couldn't fix (and you can believe my xah drove that home incessantly). He conveniently ignored the last part though. She refused to do marriage counseling when one partner was in active addiction. He was not available to work on a relationship because he would be listening to the voice in his head called alcohol. That voice pulls him in the opposite direction and nothing is louder or more persistent then the voice of addiction. Not even me and I'm persistent - 16 years worth of persistent to be exact.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Originally Posted by hydrogirl
Hey Wife!
I don't know if anyone else will notice this, but it really stood out to me. Your therapist seems to be suggesting that you stay with your husband so that you don't get killed? To me, that's a deal breaker with the therapist. IMHO I find this to be COMPLETELY irresponsible!
You have made so much progress lately! Keep up the great work!!! Remember, at your own pace.....
Hugs, HG
I don't know if anyone else will notice this, but it really stood out to me. Your therapist seems to be suggesting that you stay with your husband so that you don't get killed? To me, that's a deal breaker with the therapist. IMHO I find this to be COMPLETELY irresponsible!
You have made so much progress lately! Keep up the great work!!! Remember, at your own pace.....
Hugs, HG
but isn't it more likely that he was giving a not-so-gentle warning to his client that pretty much every single woman who gets beaten by her significant other (genders used for conciseness) believed just as much as wife does, that her H/BF, would NEVER do that and that angry, drinking, people are more prone to outbursts of violent rage than sweet-tempered, non-addicts.
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Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I can't really imagine what sort of conversation would elicit a comment like the "murder" comment from your therapist. It seems very odd. My counselor pointed out to me, when discussing leaving, that alcoholics could get very unpredictable, even resorting to violence at times. All well and good. It helped me prepare for what was coming. Helpful. But this? Horror stories that he may come after you years from now? Hm. Odd. I get a cold feeling from this therapist guy all around. Oh well. I'm not there, right?
Just to give you a little perspective, wife:
My husband is not an alcoholic, but he does have serious impatience problems at times. I have problems with this as well, and when life's pressures mount, I can be unpleasant in many ways to live with...I'm also fairly selfish when it comes to my time and my sleep. We sat down and agreed that perhaps we wouldn't make the best parents for children. We both acknowledged our shortcomings, and agreed.
This is the conversation you could've had, if he had the capacity to look within himself and face his faults like an adult. Instead, the blame for this went all on you, the threats came out, the anger bubbled.
It seems to me that this very scenario answered the question of what kind of parent he'd make (in addition to the alcoholism). In my humble opinion.
If I truly, truly wanted to have children, I now know that I'd have to choose a different mate to do so. It seems you are finding out the same.
And in that, I agree with your therapist. Sometimes, good partners don't equal good parents.
Just to give you a little perspective, wife:
My husband is not an alcoholic, but he does have serious impatience problems at times. I have problems with this as well, and when life's pressures mount, I can be unpleasant in many ways to live with...I'm also fairly selfish when it comes to my time and my sleep. We sat down and agreed that perhaps we wouldn't make the best parents for children. We both acknowledged our shortcomings, and agreed.
This is the conversation you could've had, if he had the capacity to look within himself and face his faults like an adult. Instead, the blame for this went all on you, the threats came out, the anger bubbled.
It seems to me that this very scenario answered the question of what kind of parent he'd make (in addition to the alcoholism). In my humble opinion.
If I truly, truly wanted to have children, I now know that I'd have to choose a different mate to do so. It seems you are finding out the same.
And in that, I agree with your therapist. Sometimes, good partners don't equal good parents.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
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LTD - LOL! Good! You HAVE told me this many times and I need to hear it every time! Thanks for not giving up on me as a person that isn't listening LOL!
hydro - this is therapist #2 and there is not another one for miles around (literally), but he's not "it" either...
anvil - this is also a message you have told me before. Thanks for your patience, too... I think you're right. I am not liking his communication, but he did communicate clearly. I'll do more thought on this...
thumper - true enough.
jen - that makes sense. it was a weird way to get across that message.
givelove - that's so hard to accept. So, so hard. He WOULD be hard to parent with. If you can't talk about it...(anvil, I can hear you saying, "he DID talk about it!"...okay. He did. If you can't make any compromises...how's that? In my fantasy world, I wanted to talk about his anger/fear, how he handles it, whether he feels comfortable with how he handles it, what he might do to work on it if it bothers him, too...
Maybe that's not compromising, that's...me up in his business?)
I can assume he would shut down or wig out on them and there would be NO flexibility to discuss the way he did it or how he might do it differently. It's the like it or lump it style of partnering/parenting. Yuck.
Apparently, "being able to acknowledge one's shortcomings" is on my "must have" list, because I keep trying to get my husband to do it and he doesn't want to.
hydro - this is therapist #2 and there is not another one for miles around (literally), but he's not "it" either...
anvil - this is also a message you have told me before. Thanks for your patience, too... I think you're right. I am not liking his communication, but he did communicate clearly. I'll do more thought on this...
thumper - true enough.
jen - that makes sense. it was a weird way to get across that message.
givelove - that's so hard to accept. So, so hard. He WOULD be hard to parent with. If you can't talk about it...(anvil, I can hear you saying, "he DID talk about it!"...okay. He did. If you can't make any compromises...how's that? In my fantasy world, I wanted to talk about his anger/fear, how he handles it, whether he feels comfortable with how he handles it, what he might do to work on it if it bothers him, too...
Maybe that's not compromising, that's...me up in his business?)
I can assume he would shut down or wig out on them and there would be NO flexibility to discuss the way he did it or how he might do it differently. It's the like it or lump it style of partnering/parenting. Yuck.
Apparently, "being able to acknowledge one's shortcomings" is on my "must have" list, because I keep trying to get my husband to do it and he doesn't want to.
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You are killing yourself thinking about his shortcomings and how you or him might deal with them, how to change them, how to work around them, change yourself. You are ignoring the elephant in the room.
The man is an alcoholic. With no intentions of seeking recovery by the sounds of it.
You can spends hours/days/weeks/years spinning in circles around all that. The elephant is sitting on top your husband. He can't do anything until he shoves it off. You sure as hell can't move an elephant. I'm not saying leave him. That is only for you to decide. I'm saying don't ignore the elephant. That is what you need to deal with because the rest (his communication, temper, shut down, upset freak outs) are not touchable - they are *under* the elephant.
The man is an alcoholic. With no intentions of seeking recovery by the sounds of it.
You can spends hours/days/weeks/years spinning in circles around all that. The elephant is sitting on top your husband. He can't do anything until he shoves it off. You sure as hell can't move an elephant. I'm not saying leave him. That is only for you to decide. I'm saying don't ignore the elephant. That is what you need to deal with because the rest (his communication, temper, shut down, upset freak outs) are not touchable - they are *under* the elephant.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
In reading your post, it feels like you are trying to make the marriage work while he does the same thing over and over.
I did couples counseling with my xabf. I did all my homework; he did none. I changed the behaviors that he complained of while he continued to do the same thing. Eventually, with enough therapy, he learned new and interesting ways to manipulate me. The point is, no matter what I did, it was not going to be good enough for him. If did things his way, I was a doormat he didn't respect, or I should say respected less. If I tried my way, I was a controlling b$&@?
It was frustrating for me to continually work at it with no result. Even more frustrating was trying to get him to talk things out when he would conveniently "shut down" because I was so horrible.
It seems he will continue to do exactly what he is doing. The only one you can change is you.
Also, 37 to mid 40s is not too late to have a baby. God can bring you children in many ways. I am 37 now and with a new person I love. Who knows what will happen. I know I want kids, but putting pressure on myself for this relationship to work will only drive me crazy. Take your biological clock and hypothetical children out for a minute. Is this the life you want?
I did couples counseling with my xabf. I did all my homework; he did none. I changed the behaviors that he complained of while he continued to do the same thing. Eventually, with enough therapy, he learned new and interesting ways to manipulate me. The point is, no matter what I did, it was not going to be good enough for him. If did things his way, I was a doormat he didn't respect, or I should say respected less. If I tried my way, I was a controlling b$&@?
It was frustrating for me to continually work at it with no result. Even more frustrating was trying to get him to talk things out when he would conveniently "shut down" because I was so horrible.
It seems he will continue to do exactly what he is doing. The only one you can change is you.
Also, 37 to mid 40s is not too late to have a baby. God can bring you children in many ways. I am 37 now and with a new person I love. Who knows what will happen. I know I want kids, but putting pressure on myself for this relationship to work will only drive me crazy. Take your biological clock and hypothetical children out for a minute. Is this the life you want?
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Thanks, anvil.
This is so hard. It seems so simple and I have the lessons in my head, but my actions and thoughts and behaviors just do whatever they want instead of listening to all the good lessons!
I think I've got 'he is who he is' and then I come upon some topic I want to discuss and I hit a wall. I rationalize and say, "He can't REALLY not want to talk about it and find a compromise! He wants us to have a healthy relationship, too. I'll just give him a chance. I'll work on my communication. I'll listen..."
And away we go again.
Then I think, if I were to TRULY accept it, I would need to leave him be about all this stuff. I would need to work out my issues by myself. My fears myself. My hopes myself. My concerns. My desires. About him or our relationship or damn near anything in a 5 foot perimeter to him because all my junk hurts him.
Then I feel so SAD about that...and lonely...
SO TERRIBLY SAD and lonely about that. Devastatingly sad.
Then I think I run away from the sad - right back to - "I must have gotten a piece of this wrong - he can! He can change. He can grow. He might be willing this time."
Ooooooh. That's deep. The running from my feelings again.
About the sadness...I feel sad that the problem seems so big. I don't want it to be. I want to wake up one day and realize I blew things way out of proportion and I have my happy marriage again. Even though I have said I might end it and so has he, I think I am in denial about that we could be so...far apart in understanding. That I could be so lonely with the man I love. Impossible. We are married. We love each other. We can't see things so differently, right? That's how it feels...unreal. This all feels unreal. It can't REALLY be everything is blowing up so big. It's going to work out any day now, right?
OH GOD! The denial in me!!
I feel sad that I am hurting him so deeply with being me.
I feel sad that I am dissatisfied with him being him.
Those last two are BRUTAL to look at!!
I feel traitorous (yes, that's JUST the word!) to have said how deeply I would love and accept him on our wedding day and feel so frustrated and dissatisfied now.
I am terrified I am just an unreasonable harpy. Too busy "taking his inventory" to see the good. Continually hurting him...
I don't know how to TRUST myself yet. To feel safe that my wants are reasonable. I don't trust myself to do this right. I don't trust my own feelings. How could anyone marry someone and then turn around and want their partner to be different? It is so unfair. I am unfair and feel sad about that. I feel lousy about hurting him. Judging him. Wanting him to change. I feel like such a creep. Such a creep.
About the alcohol...
The therapist said he wasn't sure my H was an alcoholic. He said I have not enough evidence and I may be jumping to conclusions. All I know is alcohol is no longer discussed, in the house, or drank in my presence or awareness. I don't even know HOW to start to think about alcohol, so I just put it on the mental back burner.
Can't I just play nice and make it all go away??
F**K!
This is so hard. It seems so simple and I have the lessons in my head, but my actions and thoughts and behaviors just do whatever they want instead of listening to all the good lessons!
I think I've got 'he is who he is' and then I come upon some topic I want to discuss and I hit a wall. I rationalize and say, "He can't REALLY not want to talk about it and find a compromise! He wants us to have a healthy relationship, too. I'll just give him a chance. I'll work on my communication. I'll listen..."
And away we go again.
Then I think, if I were to TRULY accept it, I would need to leave him be about all this stuff. I would need to work out my issues by myself. My fears myself. My hopes myself. My concerns. My desires. About him or our relationship or damn near anything in a 5 foot perimeter to him because all my junk hurts him.
Then I feel so SAD about that...and lonely...
SO TERRIBLY SAD and lonely about that. Devastatingly sad.
Then I think I run away from the sad - right back to - "I must have gotten a piece of this wrong - he can! He can change. He can grow. He might be willing this time."
Ooooooh. That's deep. The running from my feelings again.
About the sadness...I feel sad that the problem seems so big. I don't want it to be. I want to wake up one day and realize I blew things way out of proportion and I have my happy marriage again. Even though I have said I might end it and so has he, I think I am in denial about that we could be so...far apart in understanding. That I could be so lonely with the man I love. Impossible. We are married. We love each other. We can't see things so differently, right? That's how it feels...unreal. This all feels unreal. It can't REALLY be everything is blowing up so big. It's going to work out any day now, right?
OH GOD! The denial in me!!
I feel sad that I am hurting him so deeply with being me.
I feel sad that I am dissatisfied with him being him.
Those last two are BRUTAL to look at!!
I feel traitorous (yes, that's JUST the word!) to have said how deeply I would love and accept him on our wedding day and feel so frustrated and dissatisfied now.
I am terrified I am just an unreasonable harpy. Too busy "taking his inventory" to see the good. Continually hurting him...
I don't know how to TRUST myself yet. To feel safe that my wants are reasonable. I don't trust myself to do this right. I don't trust my own feelings. How could anyone marry someone and then turn around and want their partner to be different? It is so unfair. I am unfair and feel sad about that. I feel lousy about hurting him. Judging him. Wanting him to change. I feel like such a creep. Such a creep.
About the alcohol...
The therapist said he wasn't sure my H was an alcoholic. He said I have not enough evidence and I may be jumping to conclusions. All I know is alcohol is no longer discussed, in the house, or drank in my presence or awareness. I don't even know HOW to start to think about alcohol, so I just put it on the mental back burner.
Can't I just play nice and make it all go away??
F**K!
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Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
I am terrified I am just an unreasonable harpy. Too busy "taking his inventory" to see the good. Continually hurting him...
I don't know how to TRUST myself yet. To feel safe that my wants are reasonable. I don't trust myself to do this right. I don't trust my own feelings. How could anyone marry someone and then turn around and want their partner to be different? It is so unfair. I am unfair and feel sad about that. I feel lousy about hurting him. Judging him. Wanting him to change. I feel like such a creep. Such a creep.
I don't know how to TRUST myself yet. To feel safe that my wants are reasonable. I don't trust myself to do this right. I don't trust my own feelings. How could anyone marry someone and then turn around and want their partner to be different? It is so unfair. I am unfair and feel sad about that. I feel lousy about hurting him. Judging him. Wanting him to change. I feel like such a creep. Such a creep.
I think you DO see the good in him. How many times have you listed all the good in him on this forum? But you don't want to see the bad in him. Or you see it, but you don't want to believe it.
Every single person on this planet has good and bad qualities. Every.single.one. I could list hundreds of good qualities about my XAH. That doesn't make the bad ones nonexistant. In the end, you are the only one who can decide if the good makes living with the bad okay. But, you can't make a rational assessment about that until you accept that the bad exists, and there is not a thing you can do to get rid of it.
Regarding the alcohol:
It's never about the alcohol. It's always about the behavior. It doesn't matter the cause of the behavior. If he never drank a drop of alcohol, would his behavior be acceptable to you? That's the only thing for you to figure out. Why he behaves the way he does, and what to do about it is his to figure out--or not.
L
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Posts: 35
I said normal people grow and change. They have needs and wants that come up and they discuss them. They have fears come up and they discuss them.
He said not like the ones I have brought up (wanting to talk more about sex, money, problems and being afraid of his drinking and moods/upsets).
He said not like the ones I have brought up (wanting to talk more about sex, money, problems and being afraid of his drinking and moods/upsets).
I could be reading too much into it, but your husband's anger just leaps off the page at me. Deathly fear of conflict, white-hot anger at you for bringing it up, passive-aggressive manipulation in blaming you for it. It's sad to think that he could be that knotted up inside, and what that might mean for you.
I've been sitting in on my RABF's sessions with his therapist. It's partly couples therapy and partly an attempt on their part (with my agreement) to give his therapy a bit of a jump start by adding my perspective to the mix. RABF is totally on board with it (suggested it, actually) but says it's scary as hell, like there's nowhere to hide. But he's actually in therapy and doing the work.
So I've seen a good therapist in action and know how it feels. I can't imagine my RABF's therapist ever saying the things yours said to you (but then I wasn't there.)
Could you get online counseling with someone farther away and maybe meet face to face once every couple of months? Having someone there for YOU would help you so much. This is a great board, but peer to peer counseling has its limits.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Your thread reminds me of the dealbreakers thread from a month or two ago. What are your dealbreakers? What are your must haves in a relationship? If there are must haves that he does not provide, then maybe consider the life you can have without him?
If you want kids and he doesn't or would not be a good parent, then that is pretty immovable.
If you want kids and he doesn't or would not be a good parent, then that is pretty immovable.
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Posts: 2,762
1. I agree that your therapist's remarks seemed very odd. Chilling.
2. Anvil, I love you last post in this thread. It's really about fit, isn't it?
3. For what it's worth, I thought this:
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
was a fairly reasonable thing to say. It didn't sound like blameshifting, didn't sound like a pity party. It just sounded like "wow, it just sounds like you think this about me. If so, why are we having this conversation at all?"
And did I tell you before that my sister had a baby at age 40 and another one at 42? Yep, numbers 5 and 6, in her bed at home.
2. Anvil, I love you last post in this thread. It's really about fit, isn't it?
3. For what it's worth, I thought this:
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
was a fairly reasonable thing to say. It didn't sound like blameshifting, didn't sound like a pity party. It just sounded like "wow, it just sounds like you think this about me. If so, why are we having this conversation at all?"
And did I tell you before that my sister had a baby at age 40 and another one at 42? Yep, numbers 5 and 6, in her bed at home.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by anvilhead
ya know Wife......maybe it's not that HE needs to change, but that somewhere along the way YOU changed and YOU don't fit anymore........
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
I shared with him about therapy and said I realized I had a lot of fears and I feared if we had kids, they would push his buttons FAR HARDER than I had and he would get that upset/shut down/depressed etc. around them.
Surprisingly, we talked all the way through this conversation.
I had a healthy observational dialogue going on internally. I calmed myself a number of times (it wasn't too hard! I'm getting better!)
He stayed relatively calm.
He said the thought my sharing that fear was AWFUL. That not only would he never SAY something like that, he would never THINK something like that. That the ONLY reason someone would say something like that was because they hated their partner and wanted to hurt them.
He said if I was right, then he was a monster and I should not have to suffer him. He said if I was wrong, I disliked him anyway and he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone that made him feel like a piece of s**t.
Whilst I don't agree with some of what your husband said, I do understand the frustration of dealing with unresolved fears.
From my, guy, point of view, I don't understand how a fear can be both important and also remain unresolved. Except for where you are too afraid to confront the fear. So let's assume you won't have kids with him, because you don't think he'll be up for it. But you're too afraid of leaving him (which may not result in you having kids in any case). So are you then going to spend the rest of your life with him being bitter because you didn't have kids with him? How is that a good situation for anyone?
Being on the receiving end, I find it frustrating. If the fear is important, why aren't you acting on it? And if it isn't, why aren't you downplaying it?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi wife-
ok, so the not allowed to speak about topics in your home are:
1. finances
2. concerns regarding parenting
3. his drinking
4. his previous relationships
5. your emotional needs
wife, this man is emotionally unavailable! you, on the other hand, are facing all sorts of challenges in a mature, adult manner in my opinion.
from an esoteric point-of-view, it's simple: you are vibrating at a higher frequncy. you are going to out-vibe him soon.
as for the alcohol, if it was me, i would get to the bottom of that. i doubt everyone here will agree, but i found it most helpful to get some actual data on mine's alcohol consumption. i was flabbergasted at the actual amount i discovered he was drinking. it explained and reconcilled many things for me.
i never could understand the shifts in personality, the depressions, the total shutting down. once i understood the pattern of his drinking, it all made a lot of sense.
keep on pedaling. you're doing great. it's not easy but it is a journey of self-discovery for you too. try to think of it in such a light.
naive
ok, so the not allowed to speak about topics in your home are:
1. finances
2. concerns regarding parenting
3. his drinking
4. his previous relationships
5. your emotional needs
wife, this man is emotionally unavailable! you, on the other hand, are facing all sorts of challenges in a mature, adult manner in my opinion.
from an esoteric point-of-view, it's simple: you are vibrating at a higher frequncy. you are going to out-vibe him soon.
as for the alcohol, if it was me, i would get to the bottom of that. i doubt everyone here will agree, but i found it most helpful to get some actual data on mine's alcohol consumption. i was flabbergasted at the actual amount i discovered he was drinking. it explained and reconcilled many things for me.
i never could understand the shifts in personality, the depressions, the total shutting down. once i understood the pattern of his drinking, it all made a lot of sense.
keep on pedaling. you're doing great. it's not easy but it is a journey of self-discovery for you too. try to think of it in such a light.
naive
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
thanks, y'all.
hps, I really appreciate your guy pov!
If I knew why I was caught in between taking action and letting it go, I wouldn't be here. But I will keep meditating on it.
Naive, I know he is emotionally unavailable with those things.
About the alcohol...I'm really at a loss. I spent Fri-Sun with him (we went out of town skiing for the weekend) and he drank 1 beer Fri night out at dinner.
We were even at a bar on Sat night for a friend's birthday and he didn't have any, as we were driving home. Either he is a binger when I'm not around or it's not that big of a deal or he can go without it with no fuss. I (regrettably) searched the garage for alcohol, maybe a month ago, but found nothing. It's not in the house and he's not drinking around me (except for that one I mentioned). Go figure.
Maybe it's weird, but the finances thing feels safer to me to deal with. I guess because it is just a matter of opinion (I want to share everything and he feels his debt is private). I feel like if I push this, I am not personally insulting him. Anyway, I am going to talk about the money issues with my therapist tomorrow and see what he says.
hps, I really appreciate your guy pov!
If I knew why I was caught in between taking action and letting it go, I wouldn't be here. But I will keep meditating on it.Naive, I know he is emotionally unavailable with those things.
About the alcohol...I'm really at a loss. I spent Fri-Sun with him (we went out of town skiing for the weekend) and he drank 1 beer Fri night out at dinner.
We were even at a bar on Sat night for a friend's birthday and he didn't have any, as we were driving home. Either he is a binger when I'm not around or it's not that big of a deal or he can go without it with no fuss. I (regrettably) searched the garage for alcohol, maybe a month ago, but found nothing. It's not in the house and he's not drinking around me (except for that one I mentioned). Go figure.
Maybe it's weird, but the finances thing feels safer to me to deal with. I guess because it is just a matter of opinion (I want to share everything and he feels his debt is private). I feel like if I push this, I am not personally insulting him. Anyway, I am going to talk about the money issues with my therapist tomorrow and see what he says.
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